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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Yeah, Carol's paycheck is still probably smaller than less powerful, less experienced male Avengers.

    She probably can't get a number of medical procedures without asking a man's permission first.

    Sure, Carol's a world famous superhero who had an apartment in the statue of liberty, she's held a number of high profile jobs with access to highly sensitive data.....but people probably still tell her she needs to smile more.

    Carol might have more privilege than a lot of others, but even she doesn't live in a world where she's treated equally. Not yet.
    1) Carol would never stand for that nonsense. She bargained with Jameson in her very first issue as Ms. Marvel for equal pay for a mag editor. Not to mention the avengers are heroes and they wouldn't stand for nonsense either.

    2) Carol doesn't have to worry about medical procedures when she has so many friends and her physiology is beyond the average doctor anyway.

    3) People telling her to smile more is relatively minor compared to the shit she's been through.

    The closest she came to not being treated equally recently is because of her Kree heritage which is not sexism based.

  2. #482
    All-New Member VirusChan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreyga2000 View Post
    Feminism. She is a woman who broke through the glass ceiling to follow her dreams despite her fatherís sexism.

    She was originally the head of a womanís magazine for a reason
    Modern depictions of Carolís father is exactly the problem I have with relating Carol to modern feminism. It seems that her writers ignore the fact he was originally depicted as a good man who simply failed to see Carol as anything other than his little girl or how heartbroken he was when he heard of Carolís encounter with Rouge. They seem to omit the page immediately after the original telling of Carolís argument with her father, showcasing the two men in Carolís life that lifted her up. Michael Rossi who taught her everything she needed to know about special operations for air force intelligence and Mar-Vell whose acts of heroism would grant Carol not only her powers but would fulfill her heart's desire to explore the depths of space yet in ways she never dreamt possible.

    I am all for Carol being a feminist, a second wave feminist bra burning for womenís lib, but I am getting annoyed at the constant stream of writers whom opt to ignore the significant contributions from the men in Carolís life for the goal of promoting a brand of feminism the the character was never made for. If Carol is to truly be a feminist character then she should not be called Captain Marvel, she should be called either Ms. Marvel or Warbird and be garbed in her Lightning bolt costume because that is a look and identity she built all her own.

    The question has been asked ďWhat does Carol Danvers represent?Ē but I think that is the wrong question. What does it mean to be Captain Marvel? What does it mean to Carol? And I think that has been answered quite well before. In the ending of Secret Avengers #28 (2012), as Carol reminisces about a recently resurrected Mar-Vell that goes to sacrifice himself one last time she states this: ďThe image of a lone man willing to sacrifice his opportunity for life for a world and a people that forsook him. Inspired by the very notion such nobility is possible. Captain Marvel. The name will always define the best in us. Perhaps it should live on.Ē

  3. #483
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    I guess Carol starting in 2012 as Captain Marvel represents fourth wave feminism

  4. #484
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichijinijisanji View Post
    1) Carol would never stand for that nonsense. She bargained with Jameson in her very first issue as Ms. Marvel for equal pay for a mag editor. Not to mention the avengers are heroes and they wouldn't stand for nonsense either.

    2) Carol doesn't have to worry about medical procedures when she has so many friends and her physiology is beyond the average doctor anyway.

    3) People telling her to smile more is relatively minor compared to the shit she's been through.

    The closest she came to not being treated equally recently is because of her Kree heritage which is not sexism based.
    You are clearly missing both the tongue-in-cheek sarcasm as well as the actual message.
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  5. #485
    Fantastic Member Geraldofrivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusChan View Post
    Modern depictions of Carol’s father is exactly the problem I have with relating Carol to modern feminism. It seems that her writers ignore the fact he was originally depicted as a good man who simply failed to see Carol as anything other than his little girl or how heartbroken he was when he heard of Carol’s encounter with Rouge. They seem to omit the page immediately after the original telling of Carol’s argument with her father, showcasing the two men in Carol’s life that lifted her up. Michael Rossi who taught her everything she needed to know about special operations for air force intelligence and Mar-Vell whose acts of heroism would grant Carol not only her powers but would fulfill her heart's desire to explore the depths of space yet in ways she never dreamt possible.

    I am all for Carol being a feminist, a second wave feminist bra burning for women’s lib, but I am getting annoyed at the constant stream of writers whom opt to ignore the significant contributions from the men in Carol’s life for the goal of promoting a brand of feminism the the character was never made for. If Carol is to truly be a feminist character then she should not be called Captain Marvel, she should be called either Ms. Marvel or Warbird and be garbed in her Lightning bolt costume because that is a look and identity she built all her own.

    The question has been asked “What does Carol Danvers represent?” but I think that is the wrong question. What does it mean to be Captain Marvel? What does it mean to Carol? And I think that has been answered quite well before. In the ending of Secret Avengers #28 (2012), as Carol reminisces about a recently resurrected Mar-Vell that goes to sacrifice himself one last time she states this: “The image of a lone man willing to sacrifice his opportunity for life for a world and a people that forsook him. Inspired by the very notion such nobility is possible. Captain Marvel. The name will always define the best in us. Perhaps it should live on.”
    i don't think her being called Captain Marvel has anything to do with feminism but Marvel's attempt to protect the rights to Captain Marvel name.

  6. #486
    Judgement Awaits LordAllMIghty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VirusChan View Post
    Modern depictions of Carolís father is exactly the problem I have with relating Carol to modern feminism. It seems that her writers ignore the fact he was originally depicted as a good man who simply failed to see Carol as anything other than his little girl or how heartbroken he was when he heard of Carolís encounter with Rouge. They seem to omit the page immediately after the original telling of Carolís argument with her father, showcasing the two men in Carolís life that lifted her up. Michael Rossi who taught her everything she needed to know about special operations for air force intelligence and Mar-Vell whose acts of heroism would grant Carol not only her powers but would fulfill her heart's desire to explore the depths of space yet in ways she never dreamt possible.

    I am all for Carol being a feminist, a second wave feminist bra burning for womenís lib, but I am getting annoyed at the constant stream of writers whom opt to ignore the significant contributions from the men in Carolís life for the goal of promoting a brand of feminism the the character was never made for. If Carol is to truly be a feminist character then she should not be called Captain Marvel, she should be called either Ms. Marvel or Warbird and be garbed in her Lightning bolt costume because that is a look and identity she built all her own.

    The question has been asked ďWhat does Carol Danvers represent?Ē but I think that is the wrong question. What does it mean to be Captain Marvel? What does it mean to Carol? And I think that has been answered quite well before. In the ending of Secret Avengers #28 (2012), as Carol reminisces about a recently resurrected Mar-Vell that goes to sacrifice himself one last time she states this: ďThe image of a lone man willing to sacrifice his opportunity for life for a world and a people that forsook him. Inspired by the very notion such nobility is possible. Captain Marvel. The name will always define the best in us. Perhaps it should live on.Ē
    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geraldofrivia View Post
    i don't think her being called Captain Marvel has anything to do with feminism but Marvel's attempt to protect the rights to Captain Marvel name.
    It's a mixture of both.
    Last edited by LordAllMIghty; 05-23-2020 at 09:31 AM.
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  7. #487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    You are clearly missing both the tongue-in-cheek sarcasm as well as the actual message.
    Hmm yes...

    But this does bring up an interesting point... carol's feminism for things like equality in the workplace is a weak ideology to make an ideology around, however it does present her with more personal obstacles and grounded stories like her trying to pursue her dreams despite her dad's disapproval and soldiering on, and excelling in the air force despite institutional sexism, struggling with sexual abuse, gaslighting, things like that.

    Although the fundamental ideology can be not letting approval or lack there of guide you or discourage you, try to take it all in and see what's useful criticism, about internalizing things.

  8. #488
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geraldofrivia View Post
    i don't think her being called Captain Marvel has anything to do with feminism but Marvel's attempt to protect the rights to Captain Marvel name.
    Yeah. Same reason Kamala Khan was given the Ms. Marvel name a couple of years later. The nature of her powers means that Ms. Fantastic would've been the obvious name (she stretches, like Reed Richards) - her fangirling Carol was written in to explain why she chose to be called Ms. Marvel, but the real life reason is just to maintain the trademark.
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  9. #489
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    idk if she streches, she's not exactly bulletproof, it's more like she grows different parts and has a somewhat flexible body

  10. #490
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    I think DC's Metamorpho is the only one with that powerset who can stop a bullet (and even he isn't technically bulletproof - he can turn himself into gas causing the bullet to just pass through). Reed, Kamala, DC's Plastic Man and Elongated Man, and lesser Marvel heroes Flatman (Great Lakes Avengers) and 2-D (from the Liberteens/Fantastix), none of them are bullet proof, they all have stretching powers. But I never said Kamala WAS bullet proof.

    Anyway, here's some art from Ironheart and New Warriors artist Luciano Vecchio. Captain Marvel, Green Lantern, as they'd appear in Amalgam Comics!
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  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    I think DC's Metamorpho is the only one with that powerset who can stop a bullet (and even he isn't technically bulletproof - he can turn himself into gas causing the bullet to just pass through). Reed, Kamala, DC's Plastic Man and Elongated Man, and lesser Marvel heroes Flatman (Great Lakes Avengers) and 2-D (from the Liberteens/Fantastix), none of them are bullet proof, they all have stretching powers. But I never said Kamala WAS bullet proof.

    Anyway, here's some art from Ironheart and New Warriors artist Luciano Vecchio. Captain Marvel, Green Lantern, as they'd appear in Amalgam Comics!
    idk about the lesser known heroes, but all the ones you listed prior are bulletproof.
    ill just note reed richards


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