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  1. #91
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Ugh, no Taylor's Ollie here please.
    Why? Taylor's Ollie has never been particularly egregious.

  2. #92
    Always Rakzo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Why? Taylor's Ollie has never been particularly egregious.
    It's more Hawkeye than Green Arrow.

  3. #93
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    It's more Hawkeye than Green Arrow.
    Which Hawkeye? Fraction or pre-Fraction?

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Which Hawkeye? Fraction or pre-Fraction?
    Bit of both, maintaining the "everyman" portrayal that just feels off for Ollie.

  5. #95
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    Ollie being an everyman is off?

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Ollie being an everyman is off?
    Considering that "everymen" don't abandon their children, cheat on their lovers or commit murder, well, yes.

    (Or at least I hope they don't).

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Considering that "everymen" don't abandon their children, cheat on their lovers or commit murder, well, yes.

    (Or at least I hope they don't).
    The worst thing is Ollie originally wasn't a cheater, he was instead treated like one when someone forcibly slept with him and the idea kept getting revisited with other women.

  8. #98
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Considering that "everymen" don't abandon their children, cheat on their lovers or commit murder, well, yes.

    (Or at least I hope they don't).
    Right. You're that guy. You really hang on to the version of Ollie perpetuated by a handful of writers (Winnick, Rucka, etc). You're welcome to that interpretation, but frankly, I've always hated that version of Oliver as it's pretty antithetical to most his publishing history. Most runs I've cared for largely ignore it and are better for it. I'm not sure why you hold that one take on Ollie over the others when every character has multiple interpretations in canon and are judged over the major arc of their career instead of "well he sometimes does x when y writes him," but to each their own.

    Taylor's Ollie fits with the Oliver most tend to remember; the one who rode across America with Hal, who loves Dinah, cooks a ludicrously hot bowl of chili, comes across as a far-left mouthpiece and is heavily focused on improving the lives of the people on the bottom. He's a loudmouthed idiot at times, but that's part of his charm.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChangingStation View Post
    The worst thing is Ollie originally wasn't a cheater, he was instead treated like one when someone forcibly slept with him and the idea kept getting revisited with other women.
    Well, I mean, Ollie was taken advantage of while delirious, but hey, who cares if it's sexual assault so long as I can inject drama by assassinating his character.
    Last edited by Robanker; 07-12-2020 at 10:41 AM.

  9. #99
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I don't really think of Ollie as an "everyman" so much as he's a rich guy who after a traumatic experience now tries to better relate to people on a social and moral level, and compared to most of the Justice League he comes off like the closest to the normal people.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChangingStation View Post
    The worst thing is Ollie originally wasn't a cheater, he was instead treated like one when someone forcibly slept with him and the idea kept getting revisited with other women.
    It was later revealed that Ollie actually allowed Shado to have sex with him but even if we ignore that, Mike Grell himself (who made the whole Shado thing) also made him cheat on Dinah again with a woman named Marianne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Right. You're that guy. You really hang on to the version of Ollie perpetuated by a handful of writers (Winnick, Rucka, etc). You're welcome to that interpretation, but frankly, I've always hated that version of Oliver as it's pretty antithetical to most his publishing history. Most runs I've cared for largely ignore it and are better for it. I'm not sure why you hold that one take on Ollie over the others when every character has multiple interpretations in canon and are judged over the major arc of their career instead of "well he sometimes does x when y writes him," but to each their own.

    Taylor's Ollie fits with the Oliver most tend to remember; the one who rode across America with Hal, who loves Dinah, cooks a ludicrously hot bowl of chili, comes across as a far-left mouthpiece and is heavily focused on improving the lives of the people on the bottom. He's a loudmouthed idiot at times, but that's part of his charm.
    Actually, is kinda most writers who were faithful to that portrayal. Mike Grell pretty much was the first one who stated Ollie's flaws and then Kevin Smith, Brad Meltzer and Judd Winick further developed them. What do all those creators have in common? They delivered the most memorable Green Arrow runs. I will be the first to admit that despite that Jeff Lemire wrote pretty much the most ambitious Green Arrow era, he didn't quite nail Ollie's character but even he managed to emphasize such traits at times. Hell, even mixed runs like J.T. Krul's focused on such aspects.

    And even if you're willing to go way back to O'Neil's era, let's not forget that's basically where everything started with Ollie kicking Roy out once he figured out he was on drugs.

  11. #101
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Taylor's Ollie doesn't feel like an everyman, just the quippy and jovial archer who comes off normal next to the rest of the Justice League.

    Smith and Meltzer acknowledged Ollies flaws but had him trying to be a better person and move on from them.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Taylor's Ollie doesn't feel like an everyman, just the quippy and jovial archer who comes off normal next to the rest of the Justice League.
    Which... is pretty much what an everyman is. See Peter Parker.

    Smith and Meltzer acknowledged Ollies flaws but had him trying to be a better person and move on from them.
    Eeeeeehhhhh...

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakzo View Post
    Which... is pretty much what an everyman is. See Peter Parker.
    I don't think that's quite it. Maybe compared to the other Leaguer's with their out-of-this world origins and capabilities but he's not someone that's meant to be an everyman in the sense of Peter Parker.
    Eeeeeehhhhh...
    Agree to disagree .

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Right. You're that guy. You really hang on to the version of Ollie perpetuated by a handful of writers (Winnick, Rucka, etc).
    Wait, what'd Rucka do?
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  15. #105
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Wait, what'd Rucka do?
    He often described Renee as having "the Oliver Queen problem" of being unfaithful.

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