"Guardians of the Galaxy," and Chasing The Diversity Unicorn

[Mister Mets]

They just made a movie based on the 2008 version of Guardians of the Galaxy.

Black Panther, Black Widow and Carol Danvers all debuted in the 1960's.



But why make a Doctor Strange movie when you can make a Black Widow movie, which is a much safer bet due to her popularity in all the other Marvel movies? Why make GOTG before Black Panther?

It seems that Marvel is trying to delay the bursting of the superhero film bubble by making sure that many of the films can count as work from other genres. Thor is high fantasy. Winter Solider was a political thriller.

Guardians of the Galaxy is a space opera. Marvel didn't have a film franchise that fit that category, which includes some monster hits (the Star Wars/ Star Trek films, Avatar.)

Doctor Strange is contemporary fantasy. That genre has also done well.

One issue with Black Panther and Black Widow films is that there would be genre overlap with the Captain America films.

A unique problem with Carol Danvers is that her origin is tied to a male superhero with more acclaimed stories. There is no Carol Danvers solo story with the critical reputation of Jim Starlin's Captain Marvel run, especially the Death of Captain Marvel. If I was advising Marvel what to do with that series, I'd suggest making a film about Mar-Vell that ends with his death (something that hasn't been done with superhero films) and Carol Danvers getting superpowers/ becoming a potential Avenger.

Comics created from the 30s to the 40s are more likely to have white leads

because those times were disgustingly racist!*

Luckily, that can be fixed when you transfer the tainted source material to the big screen.

*and sexist, and homophobic

The characters were created in racist/ sexist/ homophobic times. But this has left them with the prime mover advantage. So film writers have more material to use with Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk than with other potential leads.

[CSTowle]

But how much material do you really need, with the current set of movies? I don't see them using much outside of the origin stories of heroes and maybe bits here and there (Iron Man and the Iron Monger story, but limited, Cap and the Skull's tie to the Cosmic Cube, Thor and the Dark Elves). If an origin and one story of note (or, given that they have writers by the thousands out there at Hollywood and Disney in particular, just make some s##t up) is all that's needed potentially anyone could become a star by being inserted into an Avengers movie or showing up to steal some spotlight in a sequel. Actually that's probably the smartest move they could make, using sequels to set up new franchises.

As to Danvers and needing Mar Vell, it'd be nice as a nod to us comic fans but it seems overly complicated for the general viewing audience. If they could pull it off I'd love it (though with Thanos kicking around I'd just be depressed he wasn't out there fighting him), but I think they could come up with something. Maybe send her the Nega-Bands somehow.

[robreedwrites]

It seems that Marvel is trying to delay the bursting of the superhero film bubble by making sure that many of the films can count as work from other genres. Thor is high fantasy. Winter Solider was a political thriller.

Guardians of the Galaxy is a space opera. Marvel didn't have a film franchise that fit that category, which includes some monster hits (the Star Wars/ Star Trek films, Avatar.)

Doctor Strange is contemporary fantasy. That genre has also done well.

One issue with Black Panther and Black Widow films is that there would be genre overlap with the Captain America films.

A unique problem with Carol Danvers is that her origin is tied to a male superhero with more acclaimed stories. There is no Carol Danvers solo story with the critical reputation of Jim Starlin's Captain Marvel run, especially the Death of Captain Marvel. If I was advising Marvel what to do with that series, I'd suggest making a film about Mar-Vell that ends with his death (something that hasn't been done with superhero films) and Carol Danvers getting superpowers/ becoming a potential Avenger.

The characters were created in racist/ sexist/ homophobic times. But this has left them with the prime mover advantage. So film writers have more material to use with Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk than with other potential leads.

I disagree. Black Widow and Black Panther both bring different things that make their film different from Captain America: The Winter Soldier and the Iron Man franchise. Black Widow in particular offers a chance for Marvel to bactrack on their timeline, showing her turn from flat-out villain to hero (which matches their mold for their characters, but with a greater extreme to travel). She also can explicitly exist in the spy genre. Winter Soldier dabbled in that, but it was more of a conspiracy thriller, whereas Black Widow can present the assassin as the protagonist.

Black Panther opens up the MCU globally in a way no other single superhero in their roster can manage. He is royalty, which provides opportunities for drama that only Thor can match (even though Thor: The Dark World explicitly has him avoiding his eventual rule). You could also use the globetrotting aspects of both Priest and Hudlin's runs to make it an adventure film, introducing several of the fictional earth elements to the MCU (for example, you could further solidify the Netflix series in continuity by showing or referencing K'un L'un in T'Challa's adventures).

And I disagree with using Captain Mar-Vell in his own solo. One of Marvel's real concerns is franchise management. Money aside, there's a certain amount of human resources that have to be spread around without diluting the product, which has kept them to two films a year and only in 2017 will they begin doing three a year. They want each of these films to become its own franchise (with, presumably, the exception of Ant-Man). The Mar-Vell story is famous, but frankly, general audiences won't know. Marvel Studios has access to a limited number of female characters who could carry their own franchise. If Mar-Vell's story is going to be told, I could see it unfolding in Guardians 2 with the post-credits scene be him dying in front of Carol. Which could then lead into her film being one of the 2018 films.

The point is, if Marvel's trying to balance established and new franchises, and if they are at all concerned with the diversity of their heroes, Doctor Strange (which is presumably the second 2016 date) needs to be the last new franchise starring a white male for the time being. There just simply isn't room for any more in addition to the existing franchises and the Avengers films. Now Marvel could eventually go to 4 films a year, though with the Netflix series and possibly new tv shows to either replace or coexist with Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., that seems unlikely for the forseeable future. Which is what we're talking about. What Marvel is doing now.

And as much as I will continue to push Black Panther and Captain Marvel, what Marvel really should be doing is figuring out a Shang-Chi movie to sell to China. That film, if they properly combined a Chinese star with Hollywood production values, would do gangbusters.

[Teek]

I'd like to see a Captain Marvel movie that starts out like a Superman movie from Lois Lane's PoV. "Captain Marvel" is the newest super hero in Carl Danver's area, but he never seems to be in the same place as that Walter Lawson guy...

Danvers eventually figures it out and gets the real story behind Mar-Vell just before a convenient plot device knocks Mar-Vell out of commission and gives Danvers superpowers. Now its up to Danvers to step up and save the day from whatever alien threat is on the way.

[pelvicsorcery]

Diversity is great. We just lack so much of it in the media that sometimes it needs to be said.

[pelvicsorcery]

I agree. The only issue with this is that White actors have been cast for so many roles that were historically other races and yet no one has an issue but when the roles are reversed people are pissed off.

[PretenderNX01]

I wonder how many hundred thousand signatures it would take on a petition to get DC to start a series of movies based on their Milestone line?

I'd think Static would work the best, kids are least likely to have a problem with a character's race so a black teenager with superpowers is just a teenager like them who gets superpowers. What's not to find interesting?

It seems that Marvel is trying to delay the bursting of the superhero film bubble by making sure that many of the films can count as work from other genres. Thor is high fantasy. Winter Solider was a political thriller.

Eh, Thor had as much fantasy as Flash Gordon. Heck there was a thread in the movie forum about if Marvel should do a fantasy series for like a few posts before people remembered Thor was supposed to fill that.

Cap 2 may be political thriller but Cap 1 wasn't, and it wasn't really a true global Bond-style spy movie so Widow can still fill that. Also Marvel doesn't have a redemption story yet. Bucky was brainwashed and will get over it, Widow actually changed her mind and allegiances.

And they certainly don't have anything taking place outside of America (unless it's outer space) which T'Challa would probably be set in Wakanda.

So film writers have more material to use with Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk than with other potential leads.

Which story arc had fake Mandarin in it in the comics? Which issue was Cap and Widow teamed up to take on Winter Soldier? Thor's films eliminated his having a secret identity as he did back in the day.

Why are we stuck with them just adapting the white characters? Race bending doesn't really solve anything as it still doesn't bring the minority characters in comics to the big screen. Marvel's problem will be in how predictable they get. They can try to diversify genres but pretty soon it will be like "Oh, it's a Marvel movie. Wonder how the white guy saves everyone this time?"

The movie with an Asian lead- Big Hero Six is being put out under the Disney banner.

[skyvolt2000]

Possibly, there are other girl toys lines though. They can usually be found in the pink isle.

Even then I never really understood why female action figures arn't popular among boys...they're girls...

Because any toy line that has female (and minority) figures-see said figures under stocked.

Think of some of the toy lines-whose figures did you see more of? The white guy. In a package of 100 figures you MIGHT get 5-10 figures of the female/minority depending on how many are in that wave. So they sell out and rarely get restocked.

[Dragonmouth]

The way I see it, diverse characters are like green eggs and ham; fanboys don't know they like them until they try them. However, it seems that fanboys keep trying them and forgetting that they like them. Does a black, disabled character sound like something a Tumblr user dreamed up? Well, I've never heard anyone complain about Geordi La Forge from Star Trek TNG. People are so afraid of this imaginary specter called "political correctness" that they forget that diverse characters can be written and acted just as well as white, straight, cisgender, able-bodied male characters. Media needs more diversity without apology.

[that one guy]

The disappointing thing about the white male led stories of the Marvel Cinematic Universe is that they DON'T reflect the comics they are coming from. Picking up the comic books, the Avengers have an important, additional female member in Captain Marvel. The Guardians of the Galaxy currently have Angela in the mix. It's Ant Man AND WASP for chrissakes. It looks like they are actively working to diminish the role of women in the transition from page to screen.