"Guardians of the Galaxy," and Chasing The Diversity Unicorn

[Pinsir]

This so broadly misses the point, but rather than dive right into debate, I'll give my own example.

I am white and in a relationship with someone of a different race than mine. We have a mixed-race child. I am a vocal advocate for diversity in several areas of my life. Yet, in writing my first novel a few years ago, all but one major character was white. I kept telling myself, "Well, that's just who those character are. They're based on people I know. I already wrote their whole back-stories."

That was BS. I am the writer - I can write any story about them I want!

The truth is, it was just a little bit harder for me to conceive of the story for a non-white character. I had to go back through every character and try to decide if their race really had anything to do with their story and, if it didn't, if there was another race that could serve them better. I argued with my wife about it. She called me out for making one character Asian "just because." Another characters swap to being Indian in decent bettered the story.

The point is: white males have dominated both the creation of and the characters within our comics for 75 years. Now we're embarking on a new, more widely-seen realm of comic-based art in the movies. Do we really want to establish and perpetuate a white-washed, male-dominated world of heroics in another medium when a few minor changes let more of the audience - more children - see themselves in the media they consume?

What does it matter if Peter Parker is Black or Peter Quill is Asian? What part of either of their origins depend on their whiteness and European descent? It's one thing to change the race of Captain America or Black Panther, both of whose race play into their stories strongly, but when it matters little the writing and casting ought to be raceblind. Does race make any difference at all? Would a different race actually add some new depths to a character.

If you're irked, try being irked instead by the fact that there is not one single hero or heroine that I've seen in a comic movie who my daughter will see herself in.

Let's fix that.

The major problem is as a writer as well, I do not want to impose the story on a creator. If someone does not want to write a story about a person of colour, well okay. Marvel though can choose which stories they want to develop. They choose stories where every black male is a side kick in the military and women are usually love interests (Even when these relationship do not exist in the comics...).

Speaking truthfully GotG gets a pass for me (though I am not sure why aliens always abduct people from developed nations as opposed to some place where the abducted won't be noticed...) Spiritually the movie is about diversity and its strengths.

[KiraXD]

The main problem i have for changing a characters race... is hugely based on creators. Look, when i draw, i tend to create characters that resemble me... a white guy, no real reason why, i just want to insert myself into the characters i draw, and the story i create around him is going to be more personal than you or anyone reading the book knows. If you took that character i created and just changed the race... id be a little upset. Not because of the race... but because you changed the character.

When people hold onto the idea that: Its okay to change a white character and make him black but its not okay to take a black character and make him white... its still racist. Why CANT Black Panther be cast as a white guy? (that sounds bad right?)

Now i get that diversity is still holding people back... but these days it feels more like PANDERING than actual DIVERSITY. Too many creators go "Oh this is a subject that gets people talking.... i wanna be talked about! lets switch a white guy for a black guy! all the black fans will love it!!"

Dont play the diversity card if all youre trying to do is pander to a different crowd.

[Griffin Kwanjang]

Years ago I wrote an article stating how a certain rival martial arts magazine had not placed a Black Martial artist on it's cover unless they were on the receiving end of a technique. The Editor in Chief replied that I was guilty of "reverse racism" (never understood that, it's racism or not)for that comment and then went on to indicate how sales would drop if they placed a Black Martial Artist on the cover. Not too long after, Michael Jai White appeared promoting his new film SPAWN and lo and behold the sales for that issue were just as good as previous ones.
I could go on and on about situations, times stories I worte for various companies featuring "Ethnic characters' or casting "ethnic actors' for various commercials and film projects; but the bottom line is that your feelings about the ethnicity of prominent character is determined by where you are ethnically. In my opinion, unless there are more Dwayne McDuffies - the situation will not change. I still say Dr. Strange and Prince Namor can be played by Asian actors and still hold true to the comic books (Look at Ditko's Dr. Strange, that guy looks Asian, same with Namor.....)

[thespianphryne]

The main problem i have for changing a characters race... is hugely based on creators. Look, when i draw, i tend to create characters that resemble me... a white guy, no real reason why, i just want to insert myself into the characters i draw, and the story i create around him is going to be more personal than you or anyone reading the book knows. If you took that character i created and just changed the race... id be a little upset. Not because of the race... but because you changed the character.

When people hold onto the idea that: Its okay to change a white character and make him black but its not okay to take a black character and make him white... its still racist. Why CANT Black Panther be cast as a white guy? (that sounds bad right?)

Now i get that diversity is still holding people back... but these days it feels more like PANDERING than actual DIVERSITY. Too many creators go "Oh this is a subject that gets people talking.... i wanna be talked about! lets switch a white guy for a black guy! all the black fans will love it!!"

Dont play the diversity card if all youre trying to do is pander to a different crowd.

The question always comes down to questioning authority/hegemony. Whichever group has power and privilege that's the one you have to put the screws to. Right now the authority/hegemony in most parts of the world is all about white men. So that's the group whose motivations, intentions, gifts and legacies that have to be questioned and wracked over and over again. This is the simplicity of speaking truth to power.

Also, please be very chary of phrases like "race card" or "diversity card" - it's often indicative of an unattractive and undesirable attitude that contributes negatively to conversations and community. Dismissing discussions of racial difference and disparity as over-tired and monotonous is a way of scorning and erasing the experiences and injuries of millions of people not just across the world but the US alone.

[CliffHanger2]

The main problem i have for changing a characters race... is hugely based on creators. Look, when i draw, i tend to create characters that resemble me... a white guy, no real reason why, i just want to insert myself into the characters i draw, and the story i create around him is going to be more personal than you or anyone reading the book knows. If you took that character i created and just changed the race... id be a little upset. Not because of the race... but because you changed the character.

When people hold onto the idea that: Its okay to change a white character and make him black but its not okay to take a black character and make him white... its still racist. Why CANT Black Panther be cast as a white guy? (that sounds bad right?)

Now i get that diversity is still holding people back... but these days it feels more like PANDERING than actual DIVERSITY. Too many creators go "Oh this is a subject that gets people talking.... i wanna be talked about! lets switch a white guy for a black guy! all the black fans will love it!!"

Dont play the diversity card if all youre trying to do is pander to a different crowd.

The sad part is, is that if Black Panther became popular enough he probably would be turned white. Or we find out that he had a white father or relative like Storm/Blade. Even Djimon Hounsou had to have blue eyes to make it into the galactic community kinda like the new aqua-lad.

There's no problem with creating characters you can identify with. But if those are the only stories being told there's a problem. Let's face it Marvel/DC have a monopoly on superheroes. Unless their going to allow others into the business who can compete with them on their level (which they aren't) then they're going to have to feature some heroes who aren't the white savior.

[Kieran_Frost]

A little disappointing to not see a single reference to LGBT characters or actors in a segment about diversity... but what's new...

Attachment 7564

Tom Cruise has never been hotter than when he was parading around in that one-piece shiny gold skirt *le sigh*

I'm all for diversity, but it's just ironic that so many writers here are super sensitive and nice to so many people, but then just totally don't get how rude it is to talk the way they do about "white guys".

""While it is a little disappointing that a movie with such an eclectic cast still has a handsome white male as its lead, it's hard to take issue with [Chris] Pratt's actual performance." (Full disclosure: the original version of the review said "white guy," and I quickly decided that didn't sound quite right and meant to change it before publication, forgot to, and did so soon afterwards.)"
They do care/are considerate about phraseology for straight white males.

"The Diversity Unicorn", while meant snarkily, might not be so bad a metaphor. The ideal of diversity might be unreachable in practice (like, say, catching a unicorn), but the point isn't in the goal, it's in the trying.

This... is possibly the best sentence I've read all month. Kudos!!!

But seriously, please don't pick on GOTG about casting diversity when the story doesn't ever really address diversity or minority issues at all. If you want to complain about a super-hero movie that just doesn't get diversity look at X-Men: DOFP. The whole concept is about trying to gain equality for those who are different and it has 3 white male leads. From now on, please direct all of your superhero diversity derision to that franchise. Or Superman vs Batman, Avengers 2 is probably fair game as well...

Ummmm... you may not realise but Singer's X-films are all a metaphor for gay rights (why do you think the film started in Russia?). They are very much addressing the issues of minorities; and best of all using an openly gay director and several famously openly LGBT actors to do it.

[Kieran_Frost]

After all, I haven't heard anyone calling for the great Westerns or any British myths to be redone with the main characters transposed. Queen Arthur, anyone?

a) Western or British mythos are historical facts (i.e. not present day not fiction)
b) you jest... but Queen Arthur sounds AWESOME (though I'd rather a film about Boudica)

There's no "perfect solution," but there are people who are thinking, people who aren't thinking, and people who mis-think. (Peter Jackson, with his "only the white 'races of man' are good" then tried to do something better, and failed, with King Kong's casting of the unlikely black captain . . . and the horrific portrayal of those islanders.)

Surely you should blame JRR Tolkein for that, and not Peter Jackson?

Posting this before I go back and read the responses to the article.
I'm a gay white male. I know the privilege of representation, and I also know about being a minority. Just thought I'd make that clear.
First of all, the reason there are so many of these types of articles is because there are so many people who agree, so many underrepresented people who are more than willing to shill out cash for Marvel's quality product, hoping to see a little bit of themselves up on the screen.
The "ugh, another diversity article" responses are useless additions to the dialogue because they produce nothing. All you're doing is groaning and saying, "Shut up about minority stuff. I already got mine; don't need to hear about your junk."

Welcome to CBR. If you are interesting, there are two major LGBT threads I know of here on CBR (could be one for DC characters, I don't read DC or visit the forum so I don't know, sorry).

LGBT Marvel Characters Appreciation thread
http://community.comicbookresources....s-Appreciation

The LGBTQIA Community
http://community.comicbookresources....mmunity/page19

I think part of the groaning, at least this time is that GOTG is fairly diverse already(as JMT shows on page 2) so complaining that it wasn't diverse enough just comes across as complaining for the sake of complaining.
We should save the complaining for the movies that actually lack diversity.

I agree and disagree. I don't think "it's got some good diversity, so never complain" is always true. For example Star Trek (since the original series) has done a great job with racial minorities, and (since Deep Space Nine) women. That doesn't mean we can't point out the complete lack of LGBT characters. But I do agree in the principle: our greatest energy and efforts should be in changing the worst offenders of diversity, not those already on the path.

[The Themysciran]

I saw Guardians of the Galaxy last night, and I did greatly enjoy it. But I did have to cringe at times. While it was the most diverse Marvel film yet when it came to casting, PoC were largely cast as aliens. It's an extremely common thing to do in science fiction; the humans are white and the aliens are racialized. I thing Guardians managed to avoid several issues that arise when that is done, but it was still disappointing to see.

I think when a lot of people get upset about diversity, they see it as some sort of agenda. They think we want to give Hollywood a checklist. But the fact is, it is an agenda to only use the white and male superheroes to lead films. There are many, many female superheroes, there are many heroes of colour, there are quite a few queer heroes, but they're on the bench waiting to be used. Even X-Men, arguably the most diverse superhero team, has its films dominated by the white male characters and so far Mystique's bisexuality has never been explored; the actress who played her didn't even know she was queer.

Also, saying the best person gets the role doesn't help; casting calls often are limited by race even if the role could be played by anyone.

[The Themysciran]

I also notice that the Superhero field seems more affected by this than any other. Wonder why that is? After all, I haven't heard anyone calling for the great Westerns or any British myths to be redone with the main characters transposed. Queen Arthur, anyone?

Just want to point out that people do point out that Westerns are greatly whitewashed when historically, many cowboys were black or Latino. And this is an illustration of why representation in media is so sadly important. Many people think cowboys were all or mostly white because that's all we usually see in film.

Also, with Arthurian legend, it has been done that women are given larger roles or concentrated on, such as in The Mists of Avalon. And that seems to be what happens in comics; women, LGBT and minorities get the most success when they're tied in with an already famous hero.

[Mr. Mastermind]

For Peter Quill, he has no well-defined personality or mannerisms. So anyone could be cast for that role.

You think James Gunn started casting without any idea of what the character of Peter Quill would be like? They knew what the character would be like before casting.

Ummmm... you may not realise but Singer's X-films are all a metaphor for gay rights (why do you think the film started in Russia?). They are very much addressing the issues of minorities; and best of all using an openly gay director and several famously openly LGBT actors to do it.

Singer has done a pretty lousy job preserving the international feel of the X-Men. When it comes to characters like Banshee, it's not important, but could Colossus please just be Russian?

I saw Guardians of the Galaxy last night, and I did greatly enjoy it. But I did have to cringe at times. While it was the most diverse Marvel film yet when it came to casting, PoC were largely cast as aliens.

Not really, Lee Pace, Karen Gillan and Josh Brolin were all in blue here.

[Chris Wing]

Dude the MCU is at its whole a white male power fantasy

> all women are love interests, even though in the comics most of these couples are not together
> all minorities are black and are your best friends (whom interestingly all happen to have military connections)
> all the heroes who really matter are white males, usually douches

This touches on my thoughts.

The idea of 'casting black' to fill a 'quota' fills me with horror.
What we need is more diverse characters in the comics and, then, for them to sell. It's as simple as that. I totally welcome comics to be written by 'people who know'. Women to write women, people of whichever ethnicity to write characters of ethnicity.

When some hero is suited up and bashing some other guy, there's no real point to their colour, but when a character has a solo title and, therefore, a background to delve into and enjoy, that's what I want to read.
And I want these comics to sell and movie makers feel like turning it into a movie.
Why make the Torch black when you could make a Black Panther movie, say?

I'm not a fan of tokenism, nor am I one for quota filling, but I will concede that these major characters at Marvel are historically white, which does provide a challenge for representation of diversity.

So, basically, Marvel should include more diversity (which I feel that they are doing *something* towards that at the moment) and people should buy the bloody books!

[PretenderNX01]

Surely you should blame JRR Tolkein for that, and not Peter Jackson?

I don't think Tolkien describes everyone as being white. They had a discussion on The View when the casting sheets looking for white and light skin people were leaked online and Sherry Shepard said she read the books when she was growing up and didn't imagine them as being an all-white land.

Elves, hobbits and dwarves could all be a mix of skin tones.

After all, I haven't heard anyone calling for the great Westerns or any British myths to be redone with the main characters transposed. Queen Arthur, anyone?

Well, no one is making westerns or British myths. We did get two Hercules movies that each tanked though. I'd like to see Hollywood go outside the Eurocentric mythologies and do Asian or African myths and legends, last big one that I can recall would be Disney's Mulan.

Well, I hope I'm not too off topic, I did also notice that the people of color in GoG were the aliens with the one human being the white guy. Granted he's white in the comics, it's still Marvel using a team lead by a white dude and filling out the aliens with their minority actors.

The idea of 'casting black' to fill a 'quota' fills me with horror.
What we need is more diverse characters in the comics and, then, for them to sell.

Marvel has a few already prominent characters they could go for (T'Challa) but they don't. Hopefully soon.

Not really, Lee Pace, Karen Gillan and Josh Brolin were all in blue here.

Which doesn't negate the fact that the only human is a white dude and the only people of color are aliens. White people get to be humans and aliens, other people do not.

[ExcelsiorPrime]

A little disappointing to not see a single reference to LGBT characters or actors in a segment about diversity... but what's new...

Iv'e noticed that you do this sort of thing a lot. Why not add to the conversation before demanding. I know from experience, when I would jump into a thread without contributing first people were less likely to hear what I had to say. Sort of like finding a group of people at a restaurant, grabbing an extra chair then sitting down with them without a friendly word.

Perhaps if you interjected adding an issue in which you acknowledge the OP, then addressed your concerns.

Example: It is true Asians, Blacks, Latinos are underrepresented, as well as LBGTs.

See how that puts us all in the same boat. Unless the thread is specifically addressing women's issues, gay issues, or racial issues.

[Kieran_Frost]

Singer has done a pretty lousy job preserving the international feel of the X-Men. When it comes to characters like Banshee, it's not important, but could Colossus please just be Russian?

While I understand your point, I also assume that was down to the limits of the actor. He was originally in X-men (2000) in a wordless cameo, so his need to be able to do a convincing Russian accent might never have crossed the casting directors mind. While I agree it would have been better to have a Russian accent, I quite like the story of that actor, going from a cameo to suddenly being awesome in 3 films. It's a sweet tale.

What we need is more diverse characters in the comics and, then, for them to sell. It's as simple as that. I totally welcome comics to be written by 'people who know'. Women to write women, people of whichever ethnicity to write characters of ethnicity.

But here in lies the problem, too many just won't give them a chance. If it doesn't carry the word Avengers or X-something it stands little chance. Marvel should do more to promote and support their minorities (and they are, don't get me wrong) but waiting for several POC or LGBT to rise to A-list without a major push/tinkering in the movies is... unlikely. Outside of Storm, Marvel really doesn't have any A-list POC. Luke Cage is getting close (and if his Netflix series takes off, he will be A-list), and T'Challa could get there once they FINALLY get round to the movies. But that's still only 3; if they did more with Blade that's four. 4 POC across all the Marvel films is still a terribly poor showing. The only A-list minorities Marvel have are women (nearly all white) and even THEN they can't even make it into the films.

The Marvel films aren't comic canon, so they have flexibility for change, and I hope they use it. We might not have been able to create A-list minority diversity back in the 50s when these comics starts, but it's the 21st Century "thems the times" is no longer an acceptable excuse.

Iv'e noticed that you do this sort of thing a lot. Why not add to the conversation before demanding. I know from experience, when I would jump into a thread without contributing first people were less likely to hear what I had to say. Sort of like finding a group of people at a restaurant, grabbing an extra chair then sitting down with them without a friendly word.
Perhaps if you interjected adding an issue in which you acknowledge the OP, then addressed your concerns.
Example: It is true Asians, Blacks, Latinos are underrepresented, as well as LBGTs.
See how that puts us all in the same boat. Unless the thread is specifically addressing women's issues, gay issues, or racial issues.

So... your FIRST post in this thread isn't about the article, but telling someone they shouldn't come into a thread, ignoring the purpose the thread was created for, and instead start talking about a seperate agenda. Are you not seeing the irony here? You don't think maybe you should practice what you preach, Roland?

[Mr. Mastermind]

Which doesn't negate the fact that the only human is a white dude and the only people of color are aliens. White people get to be humans and aliens, other people do not.

Tell that to Korath the Pursuer, who was actually blue in the comics.

While I understand your point, I also assume that was down to the limits of the actor. He was originally in X-men (2000) in a wordless cameo, so his need to be able to do a convincing Russian accent might never have crossed the casting directors mind. While I agree it would have been better to have a Russian accent, I quite like the story of that actor, going from a cameo to suddenly being awesome in 3 films. It's a sweet tale.

You could have easily recast that role for X-Men 2 without anyone caring.