"Guardians of the Galaxy," and Chasing The Diversity Unicorn

[Siddon]

The thing that pissed me off most about this article..and quite a big pisses me off about this.

(Also a little disappointing: An actor of the caliber of two-time Academy Award nominee Djimon Hounsou being cast in a minor henchman role.)

Six-Time Academy Award nominated actress Glenn Close, Academy Award nominated Actor John C Reilly and two time Academy Award nominated actor Benicio Del Toro all were given roughly the same sized roles and yet the black guy that's the tragedy. But yeah Djimon Hounsou would have been a great Starlord.

When Donald Glover expressed his desire to play Spider-Man a few years back, the mere suggestion of a black Peter Parker (which never appeared close to actually happening) sparked a good bit of an outrage.

Filthy dirty LIES

Some of you may recall that there was a half-serious internet campaign a while back supporting the casting of Donald Glover (Community) as Peter Parker/Spider-Man in the upcoming reboot The Amazing Spider-Man. That obviously didn’t come to pass, and Andrew Garfield got the role instead. (Though Glover and Garfield “talked it out” in the end.) But now, Glover has revealed that the spirit of that campaign lives on and will actually materialize in some shape or form in The Amazing Spider-Man. Yes, you heard that right — Donald Glover, or at least something related to him, will make it into Spidey.

In an interview with MTV, Glover let us all in on something that happened in what can probably be considered a pretty awesome consolation prize for not getting a Spidey audition. Marc Webb, the movie’s director, contacted Glover to ask him for permission to use his image in the movie. Since Glover had to “sign some stuff,” he was mostly mum on the subject. But he did say that there will be something hidden in the set design of Peter’s bedroom that will be a shoutout to Glover. One possibility: Maybe Peter is a fan of Community or 30 Rock, for which Glover was a writer and has some DVDs on his shelf.

“He has all the 30 Rock DVDs, and he has my name circled on all of them. It’s like a Cape Fear thing where he’s doing pushups and stuff and it’s kind of like he’s out for me.”

Also possible Glover-related entertainment: a Childish Gambino poster, a DVD or poster of Mystery Team, or maybe Peter got his hands on a rare, nonexistent (in real life) Derrick Comedy DVD. (I’d say Inspector Spacetime, but that’s not Glover-created.) Whatever it is, it will be there, but Glover isn’t allowed to say. But the fact that it’s there is something that Spidey fans in the indie comedy world will probably just die over for a week. And that’s something to look forward to.

It also says something about the original campaign, doesn’t it? Not only did it result in an actual reference in the movie, but as we know, it inspired Brian Michael Bendis to create Miles Morales as Spidey’s alter ego in Ultimate Spider-Man. See? Donald Glover can change the world, you guys.

Their was a campaign to cast him as Spider-man not a campaign against him, but why focus on the truth when you want to argue a horribly biased and antiqued ideology.

We had a black superhero movement in the 90's those movies sucked.

[JediMindTrick]

This so broadly misses the point, but rather than dive right into debate, I'll give my own example.

I am white and in a relationship with someone of a different race than mine. We have a mixed-race child. I am a vocal advocate for diversity in several areas of my life. Yet, in writing my first novel a few years ago, all but one major character was white. I kept telling myself, "Well, that's just who those characters are. They're based on people I know. I already wrote their whole back-stories."

That was BS. I am the writer - I can write any story about them I want!

The truth is, it was just a little bit harder for me to conceive of the story for a non-white character. I had to go back through every character and try to decide if their race really had anything to do with their story and, if it didn't, if there was another race that could serve them better. I argued with my wife about it. She called me out for making one character Asian "just because." Another characters swap to being Indian bettered the story.

The point is: white males have dominated both the creation of and the characters within our comics for 75 years. Now we're embarking on a new, more widely-seen realm of comic-based art in the movies. Do we really want to establish and perpetuate a white-washed, male-dominated world of heroics in another medium when a few minor changes let more of the audience - more children - see themselves in the media they consume?

What does it matter if Peter Parker is Black or Peter Quill is Asian? What part of either of their origins depend on their whiteness and European descent? It's one thing to change the race of Captain America or Black Panther, both of whose race play into their stories strongly, but when it matters little the writing and casting ought to be raceblind. Does race make any difference at all? Would a different race actually add some new depths to a character.

If you're irked, try being irked instead by the fact that there is not one single hero or heroine that I've seen in a comic movie who my daughter will see herself in.

Let's fix that.

What it comes down to is that until the last few years the only box office that really mattered is the US box office. Worldwide box office is fast becoming more important than US box office so this may soon change but until now its been US so its only natural that white actors will dominate. Minorities say they want to see films with minority leads because they relate better but too many think its racist if white people feel the same though its no different. Whites make up over 60% of the U.S and that number used to be higher. So its only natural that movies with white leads will dominate the box office. And really other than Will Smith there has never been a minority actor who is SOLE LEAD of a film that has done the kind of numbers Hollywood looks for in a blockbuster.

[lancerman]

What it comes down to is that until the last few years the only box office that really mattered is the US box office. Worldwide box office is fast becoming more important than US box office so this may soon change but until now its been US so its only natural that white actors will dominate. Minorities say they want to see films with minority leads because they relate better but too many think its racist if white people feel the same though its no different. Whites make up over 60% of the U.S and that number used to be higher. So its only natural that movies with white leads will dominate the box office. And really other than Will Smith there has never been a minority actor who is SOLE LEAD of a film that has done the kind of numbers Hollywood looks for in a blockbuster.

And even at that, these films still usually make half or more of their box office domestically, and studios still get a bigger take of the domestic gross. Then there's international barriers to break through, like China only allowing a limited number of films per year from none domestic sources and a film like Iron Man needing to make a cut of their film specifically for that region.

[Kieran_Frost]

Six-Time Academy Award nominated actress Glenn Close, Academy Award nominated Actor John C Reilly and two time Academy Award nominated actor Benicio Del Toro all were given roughly the same sized roles and yet the black guy that's the tragedy. But yeah Djimon Hounsou would have been a great Starlord.

HA! That's a very good point, didn't even occur to me... and I adore Glen Close.

Filthy dirty LIES.

Errr... no, he's right. Much like when Andrew Garfield said he could see Spiderman as gay and dating Flash (it was just a comment, NOTHING to do with the film) people flipped. A massive thread was made on CBR decrying the very suggestion. And that was last year. When the Donald Glover thing happened... hoooo boy, that was bad. Even the mention of it caused such an explosion on the internet. And it wasn't even a pipe dream, just a suggestion/hypothesis.

You could have easily recast that role for X-Men 2 without anyone caring.

Oh I know... I'm just saying (for the actor) I actually quite like the sweetness of how his role developed. Few extras (RE: almost none... EVER) could dream of taking off like that.

Because they featured black characters? No, of course not. Movies like Meteor Man, Blankman and Steel failed because they were cheap, halfhearted takes that treated that treated the concept as a joke, like bad 90s superhero films in general.

THIS!

• One single film/comic/book with any minority fails: SEE, MINORITIES DON'T SELL! LET'S NOT TRY THAT AGAIN!
• Numerous films/comics/books with a straight white male fails: THAT WAS A BLIP! THE STORY WAS OFF! WE DIDN'T ADVERTISE IT RIGHT!!! THE DIRECTOR WAS A JOKE!!! THE MARKET WASN'T READY FOR SUCH GROUND-BREAKING IDEAS BUT WE'LL TRY THAT STORY AGAIN IN A COUPLE OF YEARS.

It would be funny if it weren't so close to reality.

[ExcelsiorPrime]

So... your FIRST post in this thread isn't about the article, but telling someone they shouldn't come into a thread, ignoring the purpose the thread was created for, and instead start talking about a seperate agenda. Are you not seeing the irony here? You don't think maybe you should practice what you preach, Roland?

LOl that wasnt my first post. And You should read my posts in Women/LBGTcentric Threads to get the idea.

[Fused]

I'm an Asian-American comic book fan. My ethnicity has nothing to do with my fandom but everything to do with this topic. As a fan of over 30 years I finally get to see the characters I grew up loving on the big screen with the highest production values imaginable. All I want is the characters to be represented as close as possible to how I've grown to see them in countless pages of comics. They are finally being translated as good as and sometimes even better than my imagination! It's hysterical when this subject is broached and someone always assumes I am some diversity-hating white person. I also see people using this as a shield tactic to anyone that denounces casting persons-of-color as established white characters.

Would I like to see Shang-Chi and Lady Shiva realized in all their cinematic glory? A resounding "Hell yes!" What I would hate is to be pandered to by racebending a non-asian character as one to shoehorn diversity.

I have way too much reverence for the source material, not to mention self-respect, to be offended that Peter Quill is a white guy.

[Kieran_Frost]

I'm an Asian-American comic book fan. My ethnicity has nothing to do with my fandom but everything to do with this topic. As a fan of over 30 years I finally get to see the characters I grew up loving on the big screen with the highest production values imaginable. All I want is the characters to be represented as close as possible to how I've grown to see them in countless pages of comics. They are finally being translated as good as and sometimes even better than my imagination! It's hysterical when this subject is broached and someone always assumes I am some diversity-hating white person. I also see people using this as a shield tactic to anyone that denounces casting persons-of-color as established white characters.

Thank-you for the honestly of this post. As an Asian male... don't you ever get that little "squeal/thrill" when a character IS like you a little? Even just once as a kid?

Would I like to see Shang-Chi and Lady Shiva realized in all their cinematic glory? A resounding "Hell yes!" What I would hate is to be pandered to by racebending a non-asian character as one to shoehorn diversity.

It would depend which characters, I suppose. But sadly Asian males are so poorly represented in Marvel comics (and there are far more comics than movies) I do wonder if we'll ever get close to having the right diversity when it comes to Asian and latino men and women (in movies or in comics). Jimmy Woo should have been in the Illuminati, dammit!!!

I have way too much reverence for the source material, not to mention self-respect, to be offended that Peter Quill is a white guy.

I don't think the writer was offended by Peter Quill just... at the back of his mind there was that little disappointment that, once again, a Marvel movie has a straight, while, male in the lead (even though it has excellent racial diversity - better than any other MCU film to date).

LOl that wasnt my first post.

In THIS thread, Roland.

[aja_christopher]

This so broadly misses the point, but rather than dive right into debate, I'll give my own example.

I am white and in a relationship with someone of a different race than mine. We have a mixed-race child. I am a vocal advocate for diversity in several areas of my life. Yet, in writing my first novel a few years ago, all but one major character was white. I kept telling myself, "Well, that's just who those characters are. They're based on people I know. I already wrote their whole back-stories."

That was BS. I am the writer - I can write any story about them I want!

The truth is, it was just a little bit harder for me to conceive of the story for a non-white character. I had to go back through every character and try to decide if their race really had anything to do with their story and, if it didn't, if there was another race that could serve them better. I argued with my wife about it. She called me out for making one character Asian "just because." Another characters swap to being Indian bettered the story.

I am a writer/artist who has been creating a diverse universe of characters for decades. My most recent comic book (Primus) is comprised of a team that includes a Vietnamese-American "lead", a Japanese/Polynesian bisexual, a Romanian "gypsy" lesbian, a southern-bred Jamaican, a biracial Franco-Brasilian female and a Mayan female, both of whom are the leaders of the group.

The first book I wrote (Aquarius) involves a band comprised of an African-American, a half-white/half Filipino female, and a Mexican-American and a Caucasian male. Race is rarely mentioned in this book while my most recent book (Modus) is meant to be all about race and sex and includes a half-black/half-asian lead, a half-Persian/half-white love interest, an Asian female, a Hispanic female, a biracial Thai/Mexican girl, an African-American, an Italian-American, etc.

I've never had any problems writing any of these characters. Why? Because I treat them all as individuals, and not as "representatives" of their respective races and genders.

Certainly their background informs their character, but it is not the whole of their character. I create the character first, and then consider all other aspects of the character (race, gender, sexuality, etc). It's not that hard to think outside the box if you make the effort, and if you need to do a little research in the process then that can only make your story better for the effort.

You can just as easily make an "Asian" Spiderman as you can a "Latino" Captain America or a biracial "Black Panther" (White Tiger) -- imagination is limitless and so are the characters which it can create.

I think what is most important to remember is that we have an entire world out there filled with a "diverse" population and that everyone has a story. Anyone can be a "hero" and anyone can be a "villain" and in a country (and world) where less than 10-20% of the population is "white male" there is no reason why nearly 80-90% of the said population shouldn't be represented fairly in our media.

[AZBarbarian]

I think whining about this in forums isn't going to change a thing. If you really want to change this issue - become involved in the industry. Become a decision maker. Change the world.

[Siddon]

Because they featured black characters? No, of course not. Movies like Meteor Man, Blankman and Steel failed because they were cheap, halfhearted takes that treated that treated the concept as a joke, like bad 90s superhero films in general.

Superhero movies sucked for a long time, but people need to stop acting like Hollywood is racist and ignoring women and minorities.

Errr... no, he's right. Much like when Andrew Garfield said he could see Spiderman as gay and dating Flash (it was just a comment, NOTHING to do with the film) people flipped. A massive thread was made on CBR decrying the very suggestion. And that was last year. When the Donald Glover thing happened... hoooo boy, that was bad. Even the mention of it caused such an explosion on the internet. And it wasn't even a pipe dream, just a suggestion/hypothesis.

So you ignore the massive campaign to get him hired and only focus on some negative results by anonymous posters online. If we use that same logic than Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber wouldn't have careers based on their YouTube comments. And uh...well you just have The Rock playing Hercules and where is this massive racist backlash against him?

THIS!

• One single film/comic/book with any minority fails: SEE, MINORITIES DON'T SELL! LET'S NOT TRY THAT AGAIN!

• Numerous films/comics/books with a straight white male fails: THAT WAS A BLIP! THE STORY WAS OFF! WE DIDN'T ADVERTISE IT RIGHT!!! THE DIRECTOR WAS A JOKE!!! THE MARKET WASN'T READY FOR SUCH GROUND-BREAKING IDEAS BUT WE'LL TRY THAT STORY AGAIN IN A COUPLE OF YEARS.

It would be funny if it weren't so close to reality.

Steel, Hancock, Blade, Blade 2, Blade 3, Spawn, Catwoman, Blank Man, Meteor Man, the failure is that in a year where the two most successful films feature half a cast of minorities people like you aren't happy because they aren't leads. It's like sorry Gamora, Drax, Groot, Ronan, Falcon, Nick Fury, and Black Widow it didn't even really matter that you were in the movies because everyone went to see Starlord and Captain America.

And yeah and women and minorities are sooo repressed in Hollywood which is why 3 of the top 5 films out right now have female and minority leads. Cause Hollywood's racist, one white male lead and the issue is why couldn't he be black.

[rjones64]

Yep, this sums it up perfectly.

The fact is that the author of this article can't come up with a reason why Peter Quill should be black or Asian or Latino. What he's arguing is that Peter Quill shouldn't be white and his reasons are "just because!"

Which is, at least, part of the problem. The unspoken assumption here is that the hero SHOULD be white. The default race for lead characters and for major supporting characters is white. Just as the default gender for lead characters and major supporting characters is male. Being a straight, white male, I can confidently say that I see people like me up on the big screen A LOT.

And the thing of it is, I pretty much know how folks like me are going to react in a given situation. Not down to the most minor detail, of course, because people still are individuals. But I'd like to see how someone different from me would react in a similar situation. That's why the default race and gender issue is so annoying.

Default race, gender and sexual orientation is so pervasive in just about every aspect of entertainment that most people just don't even see it, notice it or are even aware that it exists. See, for instance, the comment above.

The question shouldn't be, "Why can't Peter Quill be (insert underrepresented minority here)?" because that plays right into the default race/gender/sexual orientation bias once again without most of you even realizing it. It's assumed that the Platonic ideal of a Peter Quill is a straight, white male. Yes, that was the way he was drawn in the comics because that was the default for most new characters created then.

This is the now. We have the ability to look at our unspoken assumptions and actually talk about them. We can look at the previous defaults and change them.

Peter Quill was taken from Earth as a young child, raised amongst cutthroats and freebooters, and emerged as a bit of a rogue with a heart of gold. There is absolutely nothing there that depends intrinsically on the character being a straight, white male. And, yet, that is the default characteristic set.

We don't settle for the default set in our electronics, so why should we settle for the default in our entertainment?

[CliffHanger2]

Superhero movies sucked for a long time, but people need to stop acting like Hollywood is racist and ignoring women and minorities.



So you ignore the massive campaign to get him hired and only focus on some negative results by anonymous posters online. If we use that same logic than Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber wouldn't have careers based on their YouTube comments. And uh...well you just have The Rock playing Hercules and where is this massive racist backlash against him?





Steel, Hancock, Blade, Blade 2, Blade 3, Spawn, Catwoman, Blank Man, Meteor Man, the failure is that in a year where the two most successful films feature half a cast of minorities people like you aren't happy because they aren't leads. It's like sorry Gamora, Drax, Groot, Ronan, Falcon, Nick Fury, and Black Widow it didn't even really matter that you were in the movies because everyone went to see Starlord and Captain America.

And yeah and women and minorities are sooo repressed in Hollywood which is why 3 of the top 5 films out right now have female and minority leads. Cause Hollywood's racist, one white male lead and the issue is why couldn't he be black.

Uh reality check Blade 1,2 were not failures by any means, neither was Hancock. In fact Hancock made more money than Superman Returns, Batman Begins and many other movies featuring white superheroes.

[Milton Fine]

To all those complaining about asking for more representation and annoyed with pleas for diversity; I'm sure you show the same disgust when they cast a white guy to play Goku, or when RIPD turned the Spanish protagonist into a white guy, or when Benedict Cumberpatch plays Khan Noonian Singh, or when a hundred other characters are whitewashed by Hollywood. But it's diversity for diversity's sake that is the real problem.

[Rochedalaix]

To all those complaining about asking for more representation and annoyed with pleas for diversity; I'm sure you show the same disgust when they cast a white guy to play Goku, or when RIPD turned the Spanish protagonist into a white guy, or when Benedict Cumberpatch plays Khan Noonian Singh, or when a hundred other characters are whitewashed by Hollywood. But it's diversity for diversity's sake that is the real problem.

And yes I do show the same disgust, but Dragon Ball, and the Last Airbender would have been terrible movie's even if Goku and Aang were asian, and that's my point, a movie doesn't magically become of higher quality because of the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the characters.

[CSTowle]

I don't understand why diversity even matters. Would the movie magically become more entertaining if the lead character wasn't white?

Would the movie be less entertaining, magically or otherwise, if the main character wasn't white? If he were Chinese, or Latino, or black? I don't think it would. Since you (and many others in this thread) don't care about diversity or lack thereof then you shouldn't have a problem if a studio decides to go with a non-white actor.

As a straight white man myself, I'm used to seeing lots of straight white men as the main character in my movies, TV shows, video games, and comics. Honestly outside of discussions like these I don't notice it, because it's so prevalent and has been for so long that it's an afterthought.

For someone who's black, or Asian, or a woman, it's not an afterthought. They're keenly aware that the default protagonist of entertainment not directly marketed to them (meaning not meant for mass consumption, but to appeal to only one demographic) doesn't look like them.

That doesn't stop them from enjoying it (stop by any of the diversity/minority threads and you'll usually see more positivity about upcoming projects than you will among the general discussion threads), but because they have that knowledge in the back of their mind that they're different from the default/"normal" main characters of their beloved fictional stories I'd imagine it takes just the tiniest bit away from it. I'd imagine because I don't know, I don't have that particular problem and again usually don't have to give it any thought.

Wouldn't it be nice to have more main characters that share traits with groups other than the standard straight white male so that people who aren't straight white males can have that same luxury we've been enjoying all of our lives? Since you don't particularly care about the race of the characters anyway?

Haven't you ever encountered a fictional character that shares some unusual trait with you (say a hobby like reading comics or playing D&D, or living in a particular state, or going to the same college) and felt just a little bit closer to that character? Been able to identify with them just a bit more than the others? I have (Chuck's Hackmaster poster in the TV series "Chuck" for example), and that enhanced the viewing experience for me. I'd like everyone to experience that feeling more.