Shang-Chi: Appreciation 2020

[Ron POCCulture]

I really liked the first issue. I thought Shang's code switching was a very interesting character detail.

This was my favorite part as well. Shang-Chi has always been portrayed as talking like a fortune cookie. I love that Gene addressed that so deftly and quickly in a way that makes so much sense too!

[Ron POCCulture]

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...ssue-2-preview

I love Dike's work on this so much. Shang-Chi air-dropping into China is gonna be EPIC!

[Ron POCCulture]

Hey all. Just wanted to post some of the reviews for issue #1 around the interview. They've mostly been positive!:

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/sh...n-yang-marvel/
https://blacknerdproblems.com/shang-...ial-arts-film/
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2020/...gene-luen-yang
https://www.superpoweredfancast.com/shang-chi-1-review/
https://pocculture.com/review-non-sp...hi-story-ever/

However, CBR's review attracts me the most because of it's criticisms. The other reviews had criticisms as well, but CBR's articulated what I was thinking:

https://www.cbr.com/review-shang-chi-1/

Let's admit it, the issue had some clumsy moments. It stumbled in some parts. For me, the parts involving Sister Hammer were the weakest points. Her opening dialogue with Brother Staff or ending speech was a little too clunky in exposition and a little "See Spot Run" simple in execution. I had reservations about Philip Tan's art from the first previews. I appreciated aspects of it while reading, but it was slightly jarring in a way. Still, I reread the issue with the full page capacity on Comixology and it was better to comprehend. All in all, part of me was hoping for Brubaker/Aja The Immortal Iron Fist #1 level of quality with this issue. And it didn't live up to that.

BUT, I still appreciated this issue. I still think it was strong points. Reread it again last night and I just loved the issues talking moments. The bakery scene was this (no pun intended) slice of life moment and added layers (again no pun intended) to both Shang and the supporting cast. It reminded me of visiting the bakeries on NYC Chinatown, Flushing, or even the bakeries in Hong Kong. Seeing Shang talk with Grandma Wang, Delilah, and Leiko, I'm getting his personality. I see a guy who's unlucky with love but jokes about it. I see a guy who has a slight conversation on Chinese culture and representation. And, I also see a guy who's confident.

Confident enough to become the next leader of Zheng Zu's organization? Future issues will tell.

Anyway, still have hopes for this series.

Thanks for sharing all those reviews, including my own. I'm hoping to do a more in-depth review next week after sitting with it some.

I'd disagree generally that the book was clunky though. Even that CBR review I found the dialogue criticisms to be pretty vague. I do agree with the Sister Hammer scene you're talking about though. I was somewhat unsatisfied with that particular exchange.

On Tan's art, personally I see it as intentional to give the ancient China storyline a bit of a flashback feel. Flashbacks in films are intentionally made fuzzy so it's given a bit of a dream like feel and I personally think that's what they are going for here as well. Dike's work is a lot more clear and clean and the two storylines need to be very distinct. I get that it's not going to be for everyone though. Dike is clearly doing most of the heavy lifting and I really enjoy his stuff.

Can't wait for issue #2!

[Sutekh]

I was kind of hoping for some tie in the Chinese weapon classification system that calls them the Gentleman of Weapons (jian, straight-edged sword), Grandfather of Weapons (gun, staff), King of Weapons (qiang, spear) and Marshal of Weapons (dao, sabre), instead of this dagger and hammer stuff, but it is what it is, and seems likely to have been chosen so as to more readily allow for female weapon users (since 'gentleman' sounds fairly un-lady-like, as do Grandfather and King) and for a fifth 'Deadly Hand' discipline for Shang himself.

[matt levin]

I am a really a strong fan of the Moench/Zeck, Moench/Galacy era of MOKF. And have been pretty much disappointed in all further takes, including much of the ending issues of that original run, certainly all or nearly all of what followed. So, I didn't give this new series much consideration at all. Reading comments here, perhaps I am mistaken? What say you: are any of you fans from "long ago" and the "hands of Shang-Chi" (it seems so) and do you find this new series worth your attention? Hope so; convince me?

[Snoop Dogg]

I have read it all and feel it is tough to really focus on this character in a modern context despite liking stuff like the 2009 BW special or the Secret Wars mini. I was approaching this book from the perspective that it was going to take basic Zheng Zu facts and otherwise start from scratch, but I am pleasantly surprised to see more background continuity details that show that they are serious about figuring out modern Shang-Chi. I am reading the book to observe the clinical examination of the character and surgical operations made to make him work. But before I knew I had to keep up with it for all that pretentious literary stuff I decided to buy it for the dope ass art. And it has the premise established for a cool action story so let's see!

Those are my wrinkled-brain thoughts.

[Ron POCCulture]

I am a really a strong fan of the Moench/Zeck, Moench/Galacy era of MOKF. And have been pretty much disappointed in all further takes, including much of the ending issues of that original run, certainly all or nearly all of what followed. So, I didn't give this new series much consideration at all. Reading comments here, perhaps I am mistaken? What say you: are any of you fans from "long ago" and the "hands of Shang-Chi" (it seems so) and do you find this new series worth your attention? Hope so; convince me?

What did you like particularly about those runs that stayed with you?

Like Snoop Dogg mentioned, it's hard to compare that character to a modern context. Also, I think it's hard for anyone to REALLY know what this series will be like after just 1 issue. Gene Luen Yang is my favorite comics writer and I really love Dike Ruan's art, so this series was a no brainer to me from the jump. But we'll have to see how the story plays out before really being able to compare it to the much beloved Moench/Gulacy run. I just think in the end it's going to be very different because it has to be. That 80s run wouldn't really work today.

Did you ever read Gene Luen Yang's New Super-Man of China run? That might give you an idea of his style. I loved that book.

[Tien Long]

Thanks for sharing all those reviews, including my own. I'm hoping to do a more in-depth review next week after sitting with it some.

I'd disagree generally that the book was clunky though. Even that CBR review I found the dialogue criticisms to be pretty vague. I do agree with the Sister Hammer scene you're talking about though. I was somewhat unsatisfied with that particular exchange.

Interesting take bro. Reading this, I think my idea of "clunky" goes with the unsatisfying exchanges with Sister Hammer. It went too quickly, y'know? Her argument with Brother Staff could have gone longer. It could have had either more dialogue or maybe more quiet pauses of tension between the two. Could have developed Brother Staff a bit more. We get that Sister Hammer is angry, but not much else. (To be fair, the next issue will probably focus on her. So, maybe that's the chance to see her character).

Considering it again though, the Brother Staff and Sister Hammer scene established Zheng Zu. However he did it, Zheng Zu somehow is complicating this line of succession. This secret organization and all of its powers is falling squarely to Shang, the one guy who doesn't want anything to do with his father's organization. Dude just wants to bake pineapple buns and meet non-assassin women .

On Tan's art, personally I see it as intentional to give the ancient China storyline a bit of a flashback feel. Flashbacks in films are intentionally made fuzzy so it's given a bit of a dream like feel and I personally think that's what they are going for here as well. Dike's work is a lot more clear and clean and the two storylines need to be very distinct. I get that it's not going to be for everyone though. Dike is clearly doing most of the heavy lifting and I really enjoy his stuff.

Can't wait for issue #2!

Hmmm, cool way of looking it like that. Ha, a grainy, 70s flashback scene. That perspective could work with Tan.

I was kind of hoping for some tie in the Chinese weapon classification system that calls them the Gentleman of Weapons (jian, straight-edged sword), Grandfather of Weapons (gun, staff), King of Weapons (qiang, spear) and Marshal of Weapons (dao, sabre), instead of this dagger and hammer stuff, but it is what it is, and seems likely to have been chosen so as to more readily allow for female weapon users (since 'gentleman' sounds fairly un-lady-like, as do Grandfather and King) and for a fifth 'Deadly Hand' discipline for Shang himself.

I hear ya. Having the traditional weapons of Wushu depicted in this series. If Gene went this route, it could have worked. Though "gentlemanly," the jian is still a graceful and elegant weapon. It would have fit a female character well.

However, these weapons of staff, hammer, dagger, and saber, there is variety here. Whereas the traditional 4 weapons are similar to one another, there is a lot more variation amongst the ones featured in the series. The hammer has that bludgeoning aura. The daggers are light but also offer distance attacks.

I am a really a strong fan of the Moench/Zeck, Moench/Galacy era of MOKF. And have been pretty much disappointed in all further takes, including much of the ending issues of that original run, certainly all or nearly all of what followed. So, I didn't give this new series much consideration at all. Reading comments here, perhaps I am mistaken? What say you: are any of you fans from "long ago" and the "hands of Shang-Chi" (it seems so) and do you find this new series worth your attention? Hope so; convince me?

I'd say the best parts of the Moench series are in this series. That father/son dynamic (extended to become a whole family dynamic now), the MI-6 elements (Leiko makes an appearance), the romance (Shang had some tender moments with women in the old series) the martial arts, those are there. They're just getting updated with real Chinese culture and modern storytelling and character development.

The other things though, like the "Choose Your Own Adventure" craziness of little robots and War-Yore's doesn't seem to be making an appearance anytime soon. What else doesn't seem to be making an appearance is Shang's robotic, stoic, "fortune cookie" talk. Said it before, but now we're getting a Shang who is confident and has character.

Still, Zaran, Razorfist, Shockwave, The Cat, Pavane, Blackjack Tarr, Reston, Sir Denys Nayland? Those elements are cool. I'd like to see that in the future. And I'd love to see cool moments like this in the series:

[Sutekh]

I hear ya. Having the traditional weapons of Wushu depicted in this series. If Gene went this route, it could have worked. Though "gentlemanly," the jian is still a graceful and elegant weapon. It would have fit a female character well.

However, these weapons of staff, hammer, dagger, and saber, there is variety here. Whereas the traditional 4 weapons are similar to one another, there is a lot more variation amongst the ones featured in the series. The hammer has that bludgeoning aura. The daggers are light but also offer distance attacks.

Yeah, it is neat that the weapons chosen cover the three D&D damage types of bludgeoning (staff, hammer), slashing (sabre) and piercing (dagger). I do miss the spear though. It's been so beautifully used in Hellboy 2 and that infamous Game of Thrones episode with Pedro Pascal's character vs. the Mountain that I'd love to see more of it in general.

All in all, it's an interesting start and I'm looking forward to more, especially with wahoo elements like sorcery and Fin Fang Foom taking it well past the average martial arts story!

[Ron POCCulture]

Yeah, it is neat that the weapons chosen cover the three D&D damage types of bludgeoning (staff, hammer), slashing (sabre) and piercing (dagger). I do miss the spear though. It's been so beautifully used in Hellboy 2 and that infamous Game of Thrones episode with Pedro Pascal's character vs. the Mountain that I'd love to see more of it in general.

All in all, it's an interesting start and I'm looking forward to more, especially with wahoo elements like sorcery and Fin Fang Foom taking it well past the average martial arts story!

Gene mentioned in our interview that the weapons were loosely inspired by the four elements of Chinese culture - Earth, Wood, Fire and Metal. So Sister Hammer is Earth, Brother Staff was wood, Sister Dagger is water, Brother Blade is metal and Shang-Chi's hands are fire. Thought that was pretty interesting.

[Ron POCCulture]

Interesting take bro. Reading this, I think my idea of "clunky" goes with the unsatisfying exchanges with Sister Hammer. It went too quickly, y'know? Her argument with Brother Staff could have gone longer. It could have had either more dialogue or maybe more quiet pauses of tension between the two. Could have developed Brother Staff a bit more. We get that Sister Hammer is angry, but not much else. (To be fair, the next issue will probably focus on her. So, maybe that's the chance to see her character).

Considering it again though, the Brother Staff and Sister Hammer scene established Zheng Zu. However he did it, Zheng Zu somehow is complicating this line of succession. This secret organization and all of its powers is falling squarely to Shang, the one guy who doesn't want anything to do with his father's organization. Dude just wants to bake pineapple buns and meet non-assassin women .

Haha dude I love your posts. They're so detailed and thoughtful.

I agree with you that the Sister Hammer and Brother Staff interaction was lacking. Brother Staff is the leader if the whole Five Deadly Weapons Society and that happened? Would have liked to see more. But maybe that just establishes how formidable Sister Hammer is. We'll see soon!

[Sutekh]

Gene mentioned in our interview that the weapons were loosely inspired by the four elements of Chinese culture - Earth, Wood, Fire and Metal. So Sister Hammer is Earth, Brother Staff was wood, Sister Dagger is water, Brother Blade is metal and Shang-Chi's hands are fire. Thought that was pretty interesting.

Ooh, that is interesting.

Each also has an association with one of the five cardinal directions, Metal (sabre) is West/Autumn, Wood (staff) is East/Spring, Water (dagger) is North/Winter, Fire (hand) is South/Fire and Earth (hammer) is Center/Intermediate, which places Sister Hammer in a more central position, balanced between the four others, and Shang at one of the four extremes (and in philosophical opposition to Sister Dagger and Brother Blade!).

Narratively, I'd have chosen to put Hand/Shang at the central position, and suggest that he's to bring balance to the Five Weapons Society, and that having Staff or Hammer, at the cardinal ends, in charge, was making it lopsided/disharmonious, but the Chinese system seems less centralized and more cyclical, so that might just be my Western way of looking at things messing up my expectations. Also, most of what I know about wuxing comes from Wikipedia, so, yeah, take that with a metric ton of salt.

[Tien Long]

Haha dude I love your posts. They're so detailed and thoughtful.

I agree with you that the Sister Hammer and Brother Staff interaction was lacking. Brother Staff is the leader if the whole Five Deadly Weapons Society and that happened? Would have liked to see more. But maybe that just establishes how formidable Sister Hammer is. We'll see soon!

No problem bro. Yeah, for a character like Shang, I always bring a lot of critique. Find the good points of what a writer does, but just passionate in what the character could be.

Ooh, that is interesting.

Each also has an association with one of the five cardinal directions, Metal (sabre) is West/Autumn, Wood (staff) is East/Spring, Water (dagger) is North/Winter, Fire (hand) is South/Fire and Earth (hammer) is Center/Intermediate, which places Sister Hammer in a more central position, balanced between the four others, and Shang at one of the four extremes (and in philosophical opposition to Sister Dagger and Brother Blade!).

Narratively, I'd have chosen to put Hand/Shang at the central position, and suggest that he's to bring balance to the Five Weapons Society, and that having Staff or Hammer, at the cardinal ends, in charge, was making it lopsided/disharmonious, but the Chinese system seems less centralized and more cyclical, so that might just be my Western way of looking at things messing up my expectations. Also, most of what I know about wuxing comes from Wikipedia, so, yeah, take that with a metric ton of salt.

Dude, was thinking the same think. Shang is one of the most balanced and calm guys out there. Totally would have expected him to have been Earth. But "red/fire" has a bit more of a heroic/main character vibe to it. Tons of Japanese anime and live action series have the red character as the leader. And in Chinese culture red is still an auspicious, lucky color. Red has always been part of Shang's costumes. And he just pulls off the red look so well in the new costume.

[Sutekh]

Dude, was thinking the same think. Shang is one of the most balanced and calm guys out there. Totally would have expected him to have been Earth. But "red/fire" has a bit more of a heroic/main character vibe to it. Tons of Japanese anime and live action series have the red character as the leader. And in Chinese culture red is still an auspicious, lucky color. Red has always been part of Shang's costumes. And he just pulls off the red look so well in the new costume.

I did realize that later, that Fire/South's color is red, and Shang has always worn red, so that's at least consistent (and the Earth colors of purple or yellow would look... different).

I hadn't noticed it before, but the others are color-coded as well. Staff has a green tunic, and green's the color of wood. Sabre a white tunic (the color of metal), Dagger/Water's color is black, and Hammer/Earth is yellow. Cool little detail!

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I reread the first issue and I thought the Shang portions hold up better than the Sister Hammer's. The dialogue in that section can be clunky but that reminded me of most anime translations so I thought it was intentional.