Danny Rand: Iron Fist Appreciation 2020

[Panic]

I liked the art. The writing, however...

I agree with pretty much everything Taozen said, plus this: Andrews radically reimagines the characters and relationships of Danny's parents and Meachum, turning them from a nice, loving couple betrayed by their strong but ruthless business partner, to a reckless, mentally unstable obsessive married to a vindictive cheat, betrayed by a wimpy love-struck loser. That is bad enough. But more than that, this radical reimagining which goes totally against what has been shown before is treated like this is no revelation to Danny, and that he has always known this despite the fact this jars with everything we've been shown in the past. It's just bad writing unless you are intentionally writing something out-of-continuity. This isn't a small refining of Danny's past, it's a massive swerve that the writer is trying to pass off as something that makes sense... which it doesn't. And frankly, I found it quite unpleasant.

Also I didn't like that Andrews kills off characters like the Thunderer to make way for his own creations.

[juan678]

https://www.newsarama.com/50306-javi...interview.html

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Ha, well, I guess I'm in the minority with that series. It was definitely jarring, but if you accepted what Danny could be, it worked. I could accept it. I've known a lot of people who can be calm, centered, goofy, and meditate who are really f'ing depressed. There's always one thing that you have to come to terms with. Ultimately though, Danny returned to his more optimistic self at the end of the series.



I definitely think that. I think Danny still has moments when he gets pissed. It would be cool to see those moments here and there.

In any case, just wanted your opinions on this:

Should Danny and Misty become a couple again? Or have they both moved on to new relationships?

I think Misty has but Danny hasn't really. So i rather see Danny get a new love interest preferably a superhero or antihero.

I don't hate Misty/Danny but i feel that ship has sailed and its better you move forward.

[Mr. White]

But Danny is made of sterner stuff:

My eyes....
Lol.

[Mr. White]

https://www.newsarama.com/50306-javi...interview.html

The problem with this is it pits two of my favorite Marvel characters against each other.
Still not sure how I feel about MK being the (assuming) “big bad” here.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The problem with this is it pits two of my favorite Marvel characters against each other.
Still not sure how I feel about MK being the (assuming) “big bad” here.

I don't think Moon Knight's the bad guy, he might be possessed by Khonshu. Ordinarily, MK would be a speed bump for the Avengers, Iron Fist can KO Hercules in one punch.



You probably know that but I wanted an excuse to post this.

[Tien Long]

But Danny is made of sterner stuff:

Really liked the art. It was WTF at first. Upon that second glance though (and removing the guided view feature of Comixology), taking the page in its entirely, I could appreciate the scenes better. Danny going triple uranium against the One was awesome. I liked the exaggerated look for Lei Kung the Thunderer too. The look conveyed a sense of power born out of the Thunderer's experiences. I will agree though, it sucked that Lei Kung was killed off. He had just become the new Yu - Ti of K'un Lun and implemented many new changes. He always had this calm, steady demeanor and I would have loved to see more of his rule. Plus, it would have been good to see him do some actual fighting. We've seen Danny fight. Now what would his master, with thousands of years of experience, be like? How would that guy match up against (off the top of my head) Shang-Chi, the Hand, Daredevil, Stick, the Immortal Weapons, Captain America, etc.? Now we don't have that. So....yeah .

As for Kaare's retelling of Danny's origin and its disconnect with the previous origin, it is a problem. I think it could have worked better if Kaare said something to the effect that Danny's prior memories were altered due to the emotions at the time. He had somehow created this narrative of a parents' betrayal in his head to cope with the real reason, that his father was mentally unstable and he couldn't deal with that. Only now he was. A far-fetched stretch, yeah, but Andrews would have had a plausible something to explain his changes. That's the way I make sense of why the past tellings were different from one another.

Ultimately, if it were just by itself, Andrews' series would have been a great story. A little bit more bridging of continuity and consistency would have been great.

[Tien Long]

I think Misty has but Danny hasn't really. So i rather see Danny get a new love interest preferably a superhero or antihero.

I don't hate Misty/Danny but i feel that ship has sailed and its better you move forward.

Yeah, I'm getting that sense as well. Part of me wants it to stay, since their relationship was so groundbreaking. An interracial couple in a mainstream comic back in the 1970s. Holy jeez! But again, it only stays so impressive if people build on that relationship. Unfortunately there hasn't been a lot of building over the years. So I could see why people say the two should move on.

So who should Danny date now? Which superheroes out there would like "...wait what?!" Danny Rand? Perhaps a new, ordinary character?

[Tien Long]

https://www.newsarama.com/50306-javi...interview.html

Pretty cool that the two will finally have some direct contact. These two are always in the street level circles. They just worked together during Contagion. However, now the meeting between them is more focused. And I like that Danny made that connection between the Iron Fist and the Fist of Khonshu.

What's Moon Knight going to do here? Will he steal that Iron Fist power? Hmm, looking forward to this issue!

[Pav]

So many have said they did not like Andrews' art but I liked it.

I won't lie -- the style was new to me, and it took some adjusting -- especially when associating IF with the work of Aja, a drastically different style. But I soon found a lot to love about Andrews' unique style, the artistic choices he made, and most notably, I LOVE seeing Danny's bones when he uses the Iron Fist. So, despite some muddiness to the art making certain things hard to figure out quickly, I did end up really like Andrews' visual take.

The way I read the changing of Danny's origin in regards to Meechum and his parents was that, when he was younger, his view of what happened was skewed by the misunderstandings of youth, but that now as an adult, he has come closer to the truth of who his parents were -- people with both strengths and weaknesses, who had flaws and made mistakes despite being generally decent people.

Tien mentioned that, maybe because nobody has really built upon the relationship between Danny and Misty, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad thing to see it go. And honestly, that's how I feel about Andrews' deconstruction of K'un Lun. I don't view it as "replacing established characters with Andrews' creations" so much as I see The Living Weapon as Andrews' attempt to push Danny's story forward. K'un Lun was literally and figuratively stuck in status for much of Danny's history, and it wasn't until the Brubaker/Fraction run that we saw the Immortal City move forward politically. It makes sense to me, in the context of the story, for Andrews to see the city having to deal with all these new changes and understand the inherent vulnerability that can exist in such a context -- and we see his villain, The One, use the instability and newness of K'un Lun's status quo to his advantage. But all this destruction pushes the story of K'un Lun forward, most notably with the new Yu-ti in Sparrow, the personification of the Thunderer's hope for change.

And for anyone unswayed in regards to Andrews' take, I think we all need to consider ourselves lucky: based on my analysis of the themes of life, death, immortality, and choices woven into Andrews' story, I feel very confident that the original plan for The Living Weapon was to see Danny sacrifice himself, with Pei taking over fully as the new Iron Fist; but, at some point, Marvel changed their mind, and so Andrews rewrote the end (which he has admitted to doing).

I hope that whoever next writes the character of Danny Rand continues to push his story forward, utilizing the fantastic elements already set into place by Fraction, Brubaker, Brisson, and yes -- even Andrews. Danny's life, and the people in that life, have never been more fascinating to me than they are now, especially after the resurrection of his sister thanks to the sacrifice of Orson Randall.

Oh, and Moon Knight vs Iron Fist? Love the idea.

-Pav, who wants a romance between Danny and Tigra...

[taozen]

Hey is Danny fighting a sith? Anyone knows where this is from:

[Tien Long]

Hey is Danny fighting a sith? Anyone knows where this is from:

No prob. It came from Iron Fist #78, one of the last issues of Brisson's run. This was a tie - in to the Damanation event. Danny got caught reliving his own personal hell. Should check it out, since there were all of these little nods to Iron Fist continuity (something Brisson does super well).

[Tien Long]

I won't lie -- the style was new to me, and it took some adjusting -- especially when associating IF with the work of Aja, a drastically different style. But I soon found a lot to love about Andrews' unique style, the artistic choices he made, and most notably, I LOVE seeing Danny's bones when he uses the Iron Fist. So, despite some muddiness to the art making certain things hard to figure out quickly, I did end up really like Andrews' visual take.

The way I read the changing of Danny's origin in regards to Meechum and his parents was that, when he was younger, his view of what happened was skewed by the misunderstandings of youth, but that now as an adult, he has come closer to the truth of who his parents were -- people with both strengths and weaknesses, who had flaws and made mistakes despite being generally decent people.

Agreed with that. That's how I took it as well, youth, the trauma of the event, Danny coped some way with all of that. As for the parents having strengths and weaknesses, that's true, we want complexity. Still, to be fair, Wendell seemed to have some VERY jarring personality change. We last saw him during Brubaker/Aja run, when he didn't accept the title of Iron Fist and talked with Orson. There was an element of not accepting the destiny, a sense of fear and anguish over not becoming an Iron Fist.

That turning into an obsession though? Mad, crazy, obsession? That was a stretch.

Tien mentioned that, maybe because nobody has really built upon the relationship between Danny and Misty, perhaps it wouldn't be a bad thing to see it go. And honestly, that's how I feel about Andrews' deconstruction of K'un Lun. I don't view it as "replacing established characters with Andrews' creations" so much as I see The Living Weapon as Andrews' attempt to push Danny's story forward. K'un Lun was literally and figuratively stuck in status for much of Danny's history, and it wasn't until the Brubaker/Fraction run that we saw the Immortal City move forward politically. It makes sense to me, in the context of the story, for Andrews to see the city having to deal with all these new changes and understand the inherent vulnerability that can exist in such a context -- and we see his villain, The One, use the instability and newness of K'un Lun's status quo to his advantage. But all this destruction pushes the story of K'un Lun forward, most notably with the new Yu-ti in Sparrow, the personification of the Thunderer's hope for change.

Thanks for the shout out bro. Thinking it over, you're right, the destruction of K'un Lun pushed it towards some new changes. Hell, I think these changes have yet to reach their full potential. After all of these millenia, finally a woman is the Yu -Ti. I was SOOO relieved that after all of these years, the Thunderer and others were beginning to end the corruption and the inequality of K'un Lun. In terms of story, the destruction of K'un Lun really affected Danny's psyche. He was supposed to be its guardian. So where is he? (That's still a question that can be explored now.) All of those were great story elements. And they're still great story elements.

......but y'know what, I really miss the Thunderer.

And for anyone unswayed in regards to Andrews' take, I think we all need to consider ourselves lucky: based on my analysis of the themes of life, death, immortality, and choices woven into Andrews' story, I feel very confident that the original plan for The Living Weapon was to see Danny sacrifice himself, with Pei taking over fully as the new Iron Fist; but, at some point, Marvel changed their mind, and so Andrews rewrote the end (which he has admitted to doing).

That's right, I had forgotten that. Andrews had written in the last issue of the series that he changed the story midway. Furthermore, that was the time when there was a lot of talk of Danny Rand being replaced. We are lucky!

I hope that whoever next writes the character of Danny Rand continues to push his story forward, utilizing the fantastic elements already set into place by Fraction, Brubaker, Brisson, and yes -- even Andrews. Danny's life, and the people in that life, have never been more fascinating to me than they are now, especially after the resurrection of his sister thanks to the sacrifice of Orson Randall.

Oh, and Moon Knight vs Iron Fist? Love the idea.

-Pav, who wants a romance between Danny and Tigra...

Iron Fist still has story potential. Brisson ended his run on an open note with his sister. Pei is there as well. Broadly speaking, he isn't tethered to Misty anymore. The possibility for a new something with Danny is there.

As always, keep the iron fists crossed everyone!

[Pav]

Agreed with that. That's how I took it as well, youth, the trauma of the event, Danny coped some way with all of that. As for the parents having strengths and weaknesses, that's true, we want complexity. Still, to be fair, Wendell seemed to have some VERY jarring personality change. We last saw him during Brubaker/Aja run, when he didn't accept the title of Iron Fist and talked with Orson. There was an element of not accepting the destiny, a sense of fear and anguish over not becoming an Iron Fist.

That turning into an obsession though? Mad, crazy, obsession? That was a stretch.

I was chatting on Twitter with a fellow Spidey fan the other day -- he was not a fan of Superior, and we were debating a little bit about that story, and during the course of our back-and-forth, I mentioned how I happily will use head canon to make sense of things, whether it be a character's actions in light of continuity or whatever else. His response was that I shouldn't have to do such a thing -- that it's the writer's job to make sure things make sense.

My reply? "Well, I haven't been angry or upset about a comic in twenty years."

I relay all this because it relates to my feeling in regards to Wendell. You're right, Tien: the characterization of Wendell under Fraction and Brubaker was jarringly different than his characterization under Andrews. Yet, I think you can easily make the argument that there's nothing odd about this seemingly contradictory characterization: that Wendell, in that moment where he sees his best friend almost killed by Shou Lao, is sure of his decision to abandon what he felt was always his fate; but that over time, his certainty slowly was replaced with an obsessive desire to return to K'un Lun and achieve his supposed destiny.

What I like about this analysis is that it somewhat mirrors Danny's troubled relationship with his own destiny: his choice to leave K'un Lun for revenge -- "When offered life, he chose death" -- and his about-face when presented with the opportunity for revenge followed by his continued decision to stay in NYC rather than find a way back to K'un Lun. I'd love to see characters like Danny, Pei, and Sparrow contemplate Danny's past decisions as they relate to K'un Lun's ideas of destiny, fate, and responsibility.

-Pav, who views Marvel continuity as a jumble of puzzle pieces begging to be fitted together...

[taozen]

I don't think Moon Knight's the bad guy, he might be possessed by Khonshu. Ordinarily, MK would be a speed bump for the Avengers, Iron Fist can KO Hercules in one punch.



You probably know that but I wanted an excuse to post this.

He has also KO's Luke Cage back in the old Power Man and Iron Fist series. It was when they were stuck in a vault freezing to death. Luke was trying to open the vault door and Danny has to knock him out to keep the radiation from flooding into the vault. Danny actually says that he had to hold his punch back or he would have taken Luke's head off. I have seen the pick of the page online before but have not been able to find it.