Danny Rand: Iron Fist Appreciation 2020

[Tien Long]

I think you've ignored what Blind Wedjat was asking: is Danny a legacy character in the same way Miles Morales, Kamala Khan, Jane Thor, Kyle Rayner, and Captain Marvel are? As far as I can see, he's not. Danny has also taken up the Daredevil mantle, does that make Danny as much Daredevil as Matt Murdock? I don't think it does.

Yes, I took Blind Wedjat's examples into consideration. I still stand by my response. Danny is the most current one to hold the title of Iron Fist. There's no one else around currently, but that is subject to change. According to the mythos, it has changed. As for the other characters, Miles and Kyle and so forth, yes, they are a part of a legacy, just as legitimate a Spider-Man or Green Lantern as Peter or Hal. And yeah, now that you've mentioned it, Danny has worn the Daredevil mantle, served in its capacity, yeah, I'm open to Danny having been a Daredevil. I mean Elektra is Daredevil right now. I consider her Daredevil.

Let me make it very clear though: I'm not saying Danny Rand should be pushed out of the Iron Fist role any time soon. At all. (Or Peter, Hal, Thor, Steve Rogers, etc. to be pushed out of their roles for that matter). Posters here know me, I've argued for Danny Rand to be (and stay) Iron Fist for years now. There are still many stories to tell. He's my favorite Iron Fist.

But, I see him as part of a greater whole.

[Blind Wedjat]

For me, he is a legacy character. He's the 60-something possessor of the Iron Fist title and is part of a long line of characters who have and will hold the title.

That being said, I think Danny is the most prominent Iron Fist. He's the Iron Fist that arose during the age of Marvels (the rise of the Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Avengers, X-Men) and as such he's been involved in a lot more fantastic instances then previous Iron Fists. We'll see what future Iron Fists encounter to be sure, but I feel that Danny has made his mark as an Iron Fist.

Yes, I took Blind Wedjat's examples into consideration. I still stand by my response. Danny is the most current one to hold the title of Iron Fist. There's no one else around currently, but that is subject to change. According to the mythos, it has changed. As for the other characters, Miles and Kyle and so forth, yes, they are a part of a legacy, just as legitimate a Spider-Man or Green Lantern as Peter or Hal. And yeah, now that you've mentioned it, Danny has worn the Daredevil mantle, served in its capacity, yeah, I'm open to Danny having been a Daredevil. I mean Elektra is Daredevil right now. I consider her Daredevil.

Let me make it very clear though: I'm not saying Danny Rand should be pushed out of the Iron Fist role any time soon. At all. (Or Peter, Hal, Thor, Steve Rogers, etc. to be pushed out of their roles for that matter). Posters here know me, I've argued for Danny Rand to be (and stay) Iron Fist for years now. There are still many stories to tell. He's my favorite Iron Fist.

But, I see him as part of a greater whole.

When I think of a legacy character in comics, I think of one that (as the name suggests) is inheriting another established character's in-universe and publication legacy. That is, the predecessor has to be an established character in the universe by having their own titles or major appearances in other titles. For instance: Carol Danvers inherits the legacy of Mar-Vell, Miles Morales inherits the legacy of Ultimate Peter Parker, Kamala Khan inherits the legacy of Carol Danvers, etc.

To put it simply: all legacy characters inherit a mantle, but not all characters that inherit a mantle also inherit a legacy. In Danny Rand's case, while he does inherit the mantle of the Iron Fist, because there was no major published Iron Fist before him (or published after his debut), he as a character in a meta sense does not inherit a legacy (in the real world). In the fiction universe of Marvel, yes there is an Iron Fist legacy that he becomes a part of it. But he wasn't conceived and conceptualised to be the replacement of an established character. The idea that the Iron Fist is something he earns is to enrich his origin, not explain his creation.

That is how I see it, at least.

[Tien Long]

When I think of a legacy character in comics, I think of one that (as the name suggests) is inheriting another established character's in-universe and publication legacy. That is, the predecessor has to be an established character in the universe by having their own titles or major appearances in other titles. For instance: Carol Danvers inherits the legacy of Mar-Vell, Miles Morales inherits the legacy of Ultimate Peter Parker, Kamala Khan inherits the legacy of Carol Danvers, etc.

To put it simply: all legacy characters inherit a mantle, but not all characters that inherit a mantle also inherit a legacy. In Danny Rand's case, while he does inherit the mantle of the Iron Fist, because there was no major published Iron Fist before him (or published after his debut), he as a character in a meta sense does not inherit a legacy (in the real world). In the fiction universe of Marvel, yes there is an Iron Fist legacy that he becomes a part of it. But he wasn't conceived and conceptualised to be the replacement of an established character. The idea that the Iron Fist is something he earns is to enrich his origin, not explain his creation.

That is how I see it, at least.

Understood bro. Apologies to you and Panic for any misunderstanding. If we go by that definition then, Iron Fist isn't a legacy character. Totally cool with that.

[Panic]

No apologies necessary Tien. Really you need to have been following the discussion(s) about the next Black Panther film to properly understand the context. Panther fans are understandably upset that there is talk of Shuri taking on the role of BP rather than recasting T'Challa, and I agree that is totally unfair to T'Challa's fanbase and the character. It's just not the way to go, imo.

[Pav]

When I think of a legacy character in comics, I think of one that (as the name suggests) is inheriting another established character's in-universe and publication legacy. That is, the predecessor has to be an established character in the universe by having their own titles or major appearances in other titles. For instance: Carol Danvers inherits the legacy of Mar-Vell, Miles Morales inherits the legacy of Ultimate Peter Parker, Kamala Khan inherits the legacy of Carol Danvers, etc.

To put it simply: all legacy characters inherit a mantle, but not all characters that inherit a mantle also inherit a legacy. In Danny Rand's case, while he does inherit the mantle of the Iron Fist, because there was no major published Iron Fist before him (or published after his debut), he as a character in a meta sense does not inherit a legacy (in the real world). In the fiction universe of Marvel, yes there is an Iron Fist legacy that he becomes a part of it. But he wasn't conceived and conceptualised to be the replacement of an established character. The idea that the Iron Fist is something he earns is to enrich his origin, not explain his creation.

That is how I see it, at least.

I see it similarly. Danny is retroactively a legacy character in-comic because writers created a series of past Iron Fists, but from our perspective in the real-world, he's not in the same situation as Miles Morales, who was created for the specific purpose of carrying on in another hero's name. It's all about perspective.

As far as Black Panther fans go, I'm of the position that having Shuri take the mantle of Black Panther is actually an incredibly honorable move. It's not a situation in which there is only one right or moral thing to do, though, so I understand why some fans might see recasting the character as a better course to take.

-Pav, who suspects BP2 was always going to introduce Shuri as (another) Black Panther regardless of Mr. Boseman's passing...

EDIT: I'd love a miniseries that sees Iron Fists and Black Panthers from various eras teaming-up.

[Tien Long]

I see it similarly. Danny is retroactively a legacy character in-comic because writers created a series of past Iron Fists, but from our perspective in the real-world, he's not in the same situation as Miles Morales, who was created for the specific purpose of carrying on in another hero's name. It's all about perspective.

As far as Black Panther fans go, I'm of the position that having Shuri take the mantle of Black Panther is actually an incredibly honorable move. It's not a situation in which there is only one right or moral thing to do, though, so I understand why some fans might see recasting the character as a better course to take.

-Pav, who suspects BP2 was always going to introduce Shuri as (another) Black Panther regardless of Mr. Boseman's passing...

EDIT: I'd love a miniseries that sees Iron Fists and Black Panthers from various eras teaming-up.

Agreed bro!

[Tien Long]

EDIT: I'd love a miniseries that sees Iron Fists and Black Panthers from various eras teaming-up.

Woah, may not have to wait too long for that. Check out the solicit for Iron Fist #3:

IRON FIST: HEART OF THE DRAGON #3
Larry Hama (writer)
David Wachter (artist)
Cover by Billy Tan
Variant Cover by Jeffrey Veregge
THE WAR OF THE HEAVENLY CITIES COMES TO WAKANDA!
Z’Gambo manifests over Wakanda, and with it an army of the undead!
Other cities, filled with hordes of undead and Marvel villains, appear all over the world!
Can Iron Fist stop the worldwide calamity? Will he discover who is behind this deadly scourge?

I've read that Prince of Orphans conquered Z'Gambo back in Fraction's Defenders run? If so, was it an ordinary country or was it one of the Seven Heavenly Cities? Was it associated with the dead back then? Hopefully, we'll see what connection there is when series comes out.

[Alphaxman]

In universe, yes Danny is a legacy character, the same way Black Panther is, because of the centuries long history that mantle has. But the IF and the BP are titles that comes with power and responsible that's unique to them, unlike say Captain America, Spider-man, Guardian, Union Jack, Thor, Daredevil, Wolverine and Captain Marvel.
Captain America (that's not Steve) is usually the government or close friends needing the moniker and shield to be a symbol.
Most of Peter's legacy characters became Spider-gender before meeting him. But I see Miles & Silk as a legacies while I don't see Jessica as one. Her powers, history and motivations has nothing to do with Peter.
Guardian, most Captain Marvels (other than Monica) and Union Jack has used their predecessors name and likeness to honor them, including Laura for Logan, but defiantly not in Darken's case.

[Sutekh]

EDIT: I'd love a miniseries that sees Iron Fists and Black Panthers from various eras teaming-up.

I want a series of three books set in different years of WW2, in different theaters of the war.

One in northern Africa, dealing with the Nazi Thule society and some cultists of Set (who turn out to be serpentfolk...) being foiled in their schemes to tap into Egyptian mystical mcguffins by a team of African heroes led by covert Wakandans (who are not 'out' to the world, and just claim to be from some other African nation). The team will include that generation's Black Panther (T'Challa's grandfather?) and the Dora Milaje who later becomes his wife.

One set in occupied Europe, involving a plot to tap the power of the slumbering Chthon below Mt. Wundagore, but dealing with possible French, Italian, Romani, etc. resistance heroes, (not the Invaders!), led perhaps by an ancestor of von Doom, pretending to be 'neutral' but allowing a resistance group to operate from under his home.

And one set in China, dealing with an attack by clunky 'mecha-Samurai' supported by Hand 'irezumi' tattooed sorcerers and ninja, and faced down by a team from K'un-Lun, including that generation's Iron Fist, and the Ancient One.

It could be fun, and show some of the past of previous Panthers and Fists, as well as some of the earlier days of the pre-Victor von Dooms, earlier feats of the Ancient One, other possible factions from Wakanda, or stand-alone heroes from Italy, France, etc.

[Panic]

I believe Orson Randal was the last Iron Fist before Danny, meaning he was the Iron Fist during WWII (though I think he wasn't active at the time).

[your_name_here]

Would love to see a Game of Thrones style Iron-Fist story with all the capital cities of heaven.