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  1. #166
    The worst there is Shampoozie's Avatar
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    I really hope it's not years. X sells comics, should be a no brainer.

  2. #167
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Her appearence in X-Men 5 was bad. She told I am Wolverine but then for no reason she told that Wolverine should be sent on suicide mission and not her. I didn`t like it.

    Feel bad for X but sometimes limbo is better then bad writing. I am still waiting for Gambit to get free from Excalibur. At this point limbo is better then Howard`s writing.

  3. #168
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Her appearence in X-Men 5 was bad. She told I am Wolverine but then for no reason she told that Wolverine should be sent on suicide mission and not her. I didn`t like it.

    Feel bad for X but sometimes limbo is better then bad writing. I am still waiting for Gambit to get free from Excalibur. At this point limbo is better then Howard`s writing.
    I agree, that scene was off. The argument is that the writer and artist were out of sync; she was supposed to be making a deadpan critique, but the artist took it more seriously and had her reacting with actual panic.

    Not sure I buy it. While Laura's sense of humor tends to run into the deadpan (IE, the way she screwed with Elixir in X-Force) this came across a little too quippy to me.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

    Pull List: N/A

  4. #169
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Reread Orphans of X last night.
    Good gravy that was such a sick arc.
    So beautifully crafted and the interpersonal stuff was so lovely.

  5. #170
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    Its the best written story for Laura and Daken in a long time.

  6. #171
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    I think Im ready to go back to ANW especially since I have alot more free time on my hands. I dropped it after the reveal that Laura wasnt a clone in Adamantium Agenda

  7. #172
    Spectacular Member MakubeX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I think Im ready to go back to ANW especially since I have alot more free time on my hands. I dropped it after the reveal that Laura wasnt a clone in Adamantium Agenda
    About that reveal...do people even acknowledge that she isn't a clone in other books? Or do we just ignore it, cause, honestly, A. Agena was trash....

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakubeX View Post
    About that reveal...do people even acknowledge that she isn't a clone in other books? Or do we just ignore it, cause, honestly, A. Agena was trash....
    Honestly I think that was sinister screwing with her/ stark lying to keep her out (rember how she wasent told logan was back) .also it's never brought up, Taylor went on twitter to say it was just enough of Sarah dna to explane why she looks different then Logan, and I'm 90% sure it was ment to be explored in a rip off of deathstroke vs batman whose damions dad(ignoring how that would require her and Logan having a more developed relationship where the twist would change somting) and promptly scraped

  9. #174
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    I might be misremembering, but I thought it was just a way to make her surrogate mother into her actual mother? She's still a clone of Logan, but it was either her surrogate actually was the one who carried her to term, or just used some of her DNA to complete the broken stuff they were working with from Logan. I can't remember the details.

    I've seen a lot of people comparing Laura to how Hickman treated Hank Pym, and shunted him off for years until nobody cared about him anymore. I really, really hope that wasn't the case

  10. #175
    Incredible Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I might be misremembering, but I thought it was just a way to make her surrogate mother into her actual mother? She's still a clone of Logan, but it was either her surrogate actually was the one who carried her to term, or just used some of her DNA to complete the broken stuff they were working with from Logan. I can't remember the details.

    I've seen a lot of people comparing Laura to how Hickman treated Hank Pym, and shunted him off for years until nobody cared about him anymore. I really, really hope that wasn't the case
    It was a non-sequitur declaration that Tony made based on something he saw for a fraction of a second; there was no explanation and it lead into to nothing.

    If you're talking about the original story, the narrative made it very, very clear, the entire intention of making her female, (something the heads of the project were not keen on) by doubling her existing X chromosome, was so they would have 0% foreign DNA, without spending the sizeable amount of time carefully reconstructing the DNA on it's most basic levels.

    It is a hanging, nonsensical, thoughtless, untethered, plot thread likely shoved into a dust bin and forgotten about by this point.
    Last edited by Nazrel; 04-04-2020 at 06:49 AM.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  11. #176
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nazrel View Post
    It was a non-sequitur declaration that Tony made based on something he saw for a fraction of a second; there was no explanation and it lead into to nothing.

    If you're talking about the original story, the narrative made it very, very clear, the entire intention of making her female, (something the heads of the project were not keen on) by doubling her existing X chromosome, was so they would have 0% foreign DNA, without spending the sizeable amount of time carefully reconstructing the DNA on it's most basic levels.

    It is a hanging, nonsensical, thoughtless, untethered, plot thread likely shoved into a dust bin and forgotten about by this point.
    The problem is that means her origins don't make a great deal of sense. If all of Laura's DNA came from Logan, then she shouldn't have come out looking like a young Sarah (and IIRC, Debbie mentions outright in Target: X that Laura does indeed look a great deal like Sarah at her age). Kyle, at least, has tried to pass it of as being a result of mtDNA...but that's NOT HOW IT WORKS. Surrogacy has no bearing at all on a person's appearance and overall genetic makeup. So if Laura's genetic makeup is 100% Logan, she should look like Logan. The fact that KYost explicitly established that Laura resembles Sarah indicates that she can NOT be 100% Logan.

    Also, IIRC it was established that BOTH chromosomes were degraded, it was just that the X chromosome was less so. Which means the sample still needed to be repaired from SOMETHING. Since the female clone was created off-books, it makes sense that Sarah would not have had access to regular donor banks (that shit gets tracked) so would use herself. TBH, that's been fanon since her first appearance, anyway.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

    Pull List: N/A

  12. #177
    Extraordinary Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    I think Im ready to go back to ANW especially since I have alot more free time on my hands. I dropped it after the reveal that Laura wasnt a clone in Adamantium Agenda
    Quote Originally Posted by MakubeX View Post
    About that reveal...do people even acknowledge that she isn't a clone in other books? Or do we just ignore it, cause, honestly, A. Agena was trash....
    It's been long established that the Adamantium Agenda "retcon" was just stating that she was just a modified clone with DNA from her mom as well, not a modified clone with DNA only from her father. Can we please stop dredging this up?
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
    X-23: "I know there are people who disapprove... Guys on the Internet mainly."
    (All-New Wolverine #4)

  13. #178
    Incredible Member Nazrel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    Also, IIRC it was established that BOTH chromosomes were degraded, it was just that the X chromosome was less so. Which means the sample still needed to be repaired from SOMETHING. Since the female clone was created off-books, it makes sense that Sarah would not have had access to regular donor banks (that shit gets tracked) so would use herself. TBH, that's been fanon since her first appearance, anyway.
    They explained that, hell I just explained that.

    "For every enzyme, for every codon, for every sequence we repaired, or even built back from near nothingness, we seemed to be missing a million more." Innocence lost #1 page 11

    They had genome mapped, and were reconstructing it on it's most basic level; that's why it was taking forever, they weren't just plugging it with DNA, and it really doesn't matter where something came from once it's been broken down to it's chemical components. Also they had been reconstructing it for a long while before they reached the point that Sarah decided the Y chromosome was way to damaged, and could have a female clone right now, if they just doubled the X chromosome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    The problem is that means her origins don't make a great deal of sense. If all of Laura's DNA came from Logan, then she shouldn't have come out looking like a young Sarah (and IIRC, Debbie mentions outright in Target: X that Laura does indeed look a great deal like Sarah at her age). Kyle, at least, has tried to pass it of as being a result of mtDNA...but that's NOT HOW IT WORKS. Surrogacy has no bearing at all on a person's appearance and overall genetic makeup. So if Laura's genetic makeup is 100% Logan, she should look like Logan. The fact that KYost explicitly established that Laura resembles Sarah indicates that she can NOT be 100% Logan.
    Okay, lets start with the fallacy you are employing; this universe does not follow real world science rules, so the fact this does not 1 for 1 follow real world science rules, not really a problem.

    A fiction requires verisimilitude, not realism; it needs to make sense in relation to itself, i.e. the existing narrative, not in relation to real world science... especially in a world were gamma radiation give you super powers, and not agonizing death.

    That said, clone does have a clear meaning, clone = copy; so that does raise the question, why does she have a different eye color, and the lack of an explanation is a tiny plot hole, but one with a wealth simple possible explanations that could fit within the existing narrative (They made a minor error when reconstructing the gene governing eye color... done.); none of which need to actually work when held to actual scientific scrutiny, for the aforementioned reasons.

    Now had this actually provided an explanation, one that fit within the established narrative; I'd have had no problem; hole filled, I'd be good... but it didn't.

    It gave no explanation, it just contradicted, it just raised more questions. Questions, you may have noticed, nobody has any interest in answering.

    They plugged the hole with a square peg, cracking the base board.

    That is why it is going to be shoved in the dust bin, and forgotten about; it's just a spanner in the narrative works.

    Notice how it keeps coming up because people are confused?

    P.S. I suppose there is a possibility that the free comic book day, comic by Tom Taylor might be forthcoming on an explanation.
    Last edited by Nazrel; 04-04-2020 at 09:52 AM.
    Context is king.

    X-23's most basic surface level characteristic that any idiot should grasp: Stoicism.
    I don't demand that her every minor appearance be a nuance in-depth examination of her character, but is it to much to ask she be written in Archetype?! This is storytelling 101! If you want people to stay invested in a character, you need to, at the bare minimum, write them such a way that they can plausibly be believed to be the same character!

  14. #179
    Incredible Member pkingdom's Avatar
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    I know science in comic books is.....bad, but the idea they just doubled the X chromosome from Logan to make Laura makes for some hilariously bad science. It would be like breaking a statue in half, and trying to 'fix' it using two copies of the top half. The explanation with her mom is closer to something that might actually work.

  15. #180
    Ultimate Member Ambaryerno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkingdom View Post
    I know science in comic books is.....bad, but the idea they just doubled the X chromosome from Logan to make Laura makes for some hilariously bad science. It would be like breaking a statue in half, and trying to 'fix' it using two copies of the top half. The explanation with her mom is closer to something that might actually work.
    This is why I liked the tweak to her origins in Logan, making her the product of some very advanced in vitro/implantation rather than cloning.
    Still hoping for that Helix Reunion...

    The New X-Men: Can't let you grow up because you make everyone look old. But we can sure as @#$% mindlessly kill you off for shock value!

    Pull List: N/A

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