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  1. #601
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    However, DC stop to use Batgirl Burnside and the tone in comics (they don't even use it for DC Ink, where it would fit perfectly). So, I don't think it was so profitable for DC at the end.

    As I said, I think it is a popular tone and narrative outside comics (where Barbara could be younger), but I don't think it fits in DCU or DC will return to that with Barbara.
    Everything since the Burnside run has used it. The Rebirth book was/is in that vein (just a lot better because Mairghread Scott and Cecil Castellucci are both much better writers tbh. Castellucci is one of the best in the industry.)

    Look, I'm not talking about everything being the BURNSIDE run- far from it. I'm just saying it was popular and is still in play. I'm saying that stuff like that is more akin to what people want from Batgirl and that drudging up the same old misogynistic story from 30 something years ago is a mistake. Batgirl should be able to move on.

    More Batgirl doing Batgirl stuff!
    Last edited by Flash Gordon; 07-27-2020 at 01:33 PM.

  2. #602
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Marketability is not the best road to go down in defense of Oracle, because despite all the talk of what she represents she has almost no marketability on her own. And this is quite frustrating to me, but it’s to the point Oracle’s marketability is so expendable that they didn’t hesitate to do BoP with out her. The harsh reality is people would still rather see a hot blonde in short shorts then Oracle, and they can even still go on about how diverse it is.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 07-27-2020 at 02:30 PM.

  3. #603
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Everything since the Burnside run has used it. The Rebirth book was/is in that vein (just a lot better because Mairghread Scott and Cecil Castellucci are both much better writers tbh. Castellucci is one of the best in the industry.)

    Look, I'm not talking about everything being the BURNSIDE run- far from it. I'm just saying it was popular and is still in play. I'm saying that stuff like that is more akin to what people want from Batgirl and that drudging up the same old misogynistic story from 30 something years ago is a mistake. Batgirl should be able to move on.

    More Batgirl doing Batgirl stuff!
    I think Scott and Castellucci are pretty hard turns away from the Burnside era in terms of costume, tone, and stories. I feel that's pretty evident. It wasn't so much that they were better writers than Larson, but I think they knew what they were writing for more than Larson did.

    I'm not saying Burnside didn't have an impact or find it's own niche but I don't think it's definitively what more people expect from Batgirl. The image of Batgirl is nowhere near consistent enough for that to be true in my opinion. There's probably as many people who prefer something more like Akrham Knight Batgirl. Nobody is talking about drudging up the Killing Joke, which happened even when she became Batgirl, I'm just saying there is way more to it than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Marketability is not the best road to go down in defense of Oracle, because despite all the talk of what she represents she has almost no marketability on her own. And this is quite frustrating to me, but it’s to the point Oracle’s marketability is so expendable that they didn’t hesitate to do BoP with out her. The harsh reality is people would still rather see a hot blonde in short shorts then Oracle, and they can even still go on about how diverse it is.
    I'm not arguing about marketability. I know there's no comparison to Batgirl. I'm talking from a character and role standpoint.

  4. #604
    Spectacular Member sorboares's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Everything since the Burnside run has used it. The Rebirth book was/is in that vein (just a lot better because Mairghread Scott and Cecil Castellucci are both much better writers tbh. Castellucci is one of the best in the industry.)

    Look, I'm not talking about everything being the BURNSIDE run- far from it. I'm just saying it was popular and is still in play. I'm saying that stuff like that is more akin to what people want from Batgirl and that drudging up the same old misogynistic story from 30 something years ago is a mistake. Batgirl should be able to move on.

    More Batgirl doing Batgirl stuff!
    I want more Babs as Batgirl doing Batgirl stuff yes. But I don't want it in the tone of Burnside. I didn't like the drastic change to Babs, the art, the immaturity and the costume. When Babs Tarr stopped drawing her I started to enjoy Burnside more and other artists started to make Babs look older again and the costume looked better.
    Id still prefer Gail Simones New52 Batgirl tone to return with the amazing armored costume.
    I know many people said that run was too dark so why not have it lighten up a bit but not crazy like Burnside.
    I hope Babs will remain Batgirl and she gets another comic series soon.

  5. #605
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    If they take part of the Burnside stuff over to a new series I would be very happy. My problem with the New 52 stuff esp. Batgirl was that it was too dark and gritty. Babs Tarr drawing was a great plus, too.

    What I heard it sold not bad so even from that point it should not just tossed aside.

    And not using it because one of the writer is accused of something should not have a weight on that discussion, because he stopped working on the title some years ago.

  6. #606
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowfyr View Post
    If they take part of the Burnside stuff over to a new series I would be very happy. My problem with the New 52 stuff esp. Batgirl was that it was too dark and gritty. Babs Tarr drawing was a great plus, too.

    What I heard it sold not bad so even from that point it should not just tossed aside.

    And not using it because one of the writer is accused of something should not have a weight on that discussion, because he stopped working on the title some years ago.
    I think there should be a better balance of tone with the book. New 52 and Burnside are too very different extremes the title has been shifting towards.

  7. #607
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    I loved Burnside, it has my favorite suit for her. I just hated that she looked about 14 year old.
    Reading list: Far Sector (DC), Marauders (Marvel), X-Force (Marvel), X-Men (Marvel), Miles Morales: Spider-Man (Marvel), Venom (Marvel), My Hero Academia (VIZ), Killadelphia (Image), Bitter Root (Image), Black Hammer: Age of Doom (Darkhorse)

  8. #608
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    I loved Burnside, it has my favorite suit for her. I just hated that she looked about 14 year old.
    I could never fully get into the cosplay costume as an ongoing look. It felt too much like a prototype suit they stretched out far too long.

  9. #609
    Spectacular Member sorboares's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I could never fully get into the cosplay costume as an ongoing look. It felt too much like a prototype suit they stretched out far too long.
    Yeh I agree, definitely too cosplay and too prototype suit. Should have been temporary until she got help from Bruce or if she didnt want help from him then until she got her finances together.
    At least the Burnside suit had a cowl coz her new costume is cool but it really needs a cowl.

  10. #610
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I could never fully get into the cosplay costume as an ongoing look. It felt too much like a prototype suit they stretched out far too long.
    That was part of it's charm for me, it had DIY vibe to it which I have huge soft spot for.
    Reading list: Far Sector (DC), Marauders (Marvel), X-Force (Marvel), X-Men (Marvel), Miles Morales: Spider-Man (Marvel), Venom (Marvel), My Hero Academia (VIZ), Killadelphia (Image), Bitter Root (Image), Black Hammer: Age of Doom (Darkhorse)

  11. #611
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    I don't know about DIY charm, I just find the Burnside costume really cute, which means my only problem is Barbara should be older than that.

  12. #612
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    How old is she supposed to be? I assume mid 20s
    Reading list: Far Sector (DC), Marauders (Marvel), X-Force (Marvel), X-Men (Marvel), Miles Morales: Spider-Man (Marvel), Venom (Marvel), My Hero Academia (VIZ), Killadelphia (Image), Bitter Root (Image), Black Hammer: Age of Doom (Darkhorse)

  13. #613
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    For those who are hoping that Barbara Gordon has not been returned to her confinement following the events of Batgirl #47, there is perhaps an encouraging image in CBR’s exclusive preview to Batgirl #48 (I say ‘perhaps’ because the image seems unrelated to the other preview pages, and could maybe be a memory, dream, or just DC feeling that there should probably be a picture of Batgirl being Batgirl in a Batgirl book).

    50AE4574-663A-452E-8775-FD33608AC71D.jpg

  14. #614
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Looks like a variant cover to me.
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  15. #615
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9th. View Post
    How old is she supposed to be? I assume mid 20s
    She was 21 in New 52 but at around the time she dumped the Burnside suit she was aged up. Nightwing, also 21 in New 52, said after getting shot that he remembered his parents dying, but not most of the past two decades. If Dick was 8 when his parents died he'd now be in his late 20s. He definitely isn't still 21. The same goes for Babs, as she should be at least the same age as Dick.
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