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  1. #1006
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I didn't find anything insulting about how Babs was used in Stephanie's Batgirl run because she was written in-character and she was treated as having the kind of authority, history, and experience that would require Steph respecting her and taking her advice. She has a link to the identity and mentored the last Batgirl so of course she would be majorly involved with the next Batgirl. I don't see having a supporting role as a bad thing if it's a supporting role with weight to it and she's not OOC.

    If she's Oracle in Future State I imagine she'll probably get mentioned in all the stories, especially if the Batfamily are spread out and trying to function in a dictatorship out to hunt them down.

  2. #1007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I didn't find anything insulting about how Babs was used in Stephanie's Batgirl run because she was written in-character and she was treated as having the kind of authority, history, and experience that would require Steph respecting her and taking her advice. She has a link to the identity and mentored the last Batgirl so of course she would be majorly involved with the next Batgirl. I don't see having a supporting role as a bad thing if it's a supporting role with weight to it and she's not OOC.

    If she's Oracle in Future State I imagine she'll probably get mentioned in all the stories, especially if the Batfamily are spread out and trying to function in a dictatorship out to hunt them down.
    I think this is likely the case too.

    I really doubt Barbara as Oracle would exclusively appear in the Batgirls story.

    If she is Oracle, it is more likely she would work with many (if not all) Batfamily members.
    Last edited by Konja7; 10-16-2020 at 09:08 AM.

  3. #1008
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I really doubt Barbara as Oracle would exclusively appear in the Batgirls story.
    Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if that will happen, unless DC manages to break its existing culture of closed silos for its characters.

    Which would be a real pity. With the big shift in characters, Oracle is uniquely positioned as a potential bridge between the "old" characters and those in Future State.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  4. #1009
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if that will happen, unless DC manages to break its existing culture of closed silos for its characters.

    Which would be a real pity. With the big shift in characters, Oracle is uniquely positioned as a potential bridge between the "old" characters and those in Future State.
    To be honest I think that depends on how much the writers talked out this setting and the dynamics.

    Like, you'd expect her to show up in or be referenced in the Nightwing story.

  5. #1010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I didn't find anything insulting about how Babs was used in Stephanie's Batgirl run because she was written in-character and she was treated as having the kind of authority, history, and experience that would require Steph respecting her and taking her advice. She has a link to the identity and mentored the last Batgirl so of course she would be majorly involved with the next Batgirl. I don't see having a supporting role as a bad thing if it's a supporting role with weight to it and she's not OOC.

    If she's Oracle in Future State I imagine she'll probably get mentioned in all the stories, especially if the Batfamily are spread out and trying to function in a dictatorship out to hunt them down.
    Ya, ya too good to be Batgirl, but not too good to support Batgirl. This logic remains backwards. What an important role it is to support Batgirl.

    A Future of being a mention or being Batgirl support, oh how prosperous. She should get her own story. Anything less and Oracle is a downgrade.

    This is the thing that drives me bananas. DC makes her Batgirl again and people freak out, yet DC does basically nothing with Oracle and they don’t say boo.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 10-16-2020 at 10:54 AM.

  6. #1011
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Ya, ya too good to be Batgirl, but not too good to support Batgirl. This logic remains backwards. What an important role it is to support Batgirl.

    A Future of being a mention or being Batgirl support, oh how prosperous. She should get her own story. Anything less and Oracle is a downgrade.

    This is the thing that drives me bananas. Make her Batgirl again and people freak out, yet do basically nothing with Oracle and don’t say boo.
    I mean, I thought it was far more involved than just supporting Batgirl and she did other stuff other than that. I haven't re-read it in a while but I feel like she had her own character arc along with Steph. I think it's limiting to just view what she was doing as supporting Batgirl.

  7. #1012
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    It wasn’t though. She had her own character arc supporting Batgirl, but as a superhero she still was just supporting the new Batgirl. It was inherently a rather limited role. At the end of the day, as a superhero, how involved is supporting Batgirl.
    Last edited by Godlike13; 10-16-2020 at 11:13 AM.

  8. #1013
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, I thought it was far more involved than just supporting Batgirl and she did other stuff other than that. I haven't re-read it in a while but I feel like she had her own character arc along with Steph. I think it's limiting to just view what she was doing as supporting Batgirl.
    I can't really say, as I haven't read much of that title, as I conceptually like Steph as Spoiler, but you have to admit, Barbara wasn't headlining her own book (or even title in an anthology), she was the non-titular character in someone else's. I would typically call that the supporting character to the titular one. I've made much the same complaint about those who wanted Gar to be supporting cast for Vic in a Cyborg book. I won't say it's worse than not being used at all. But it's not the same as being the headliner. Supporting characters can and should, IMO, have their own plots and character arcs sometimes, too.

    I mean, Steph had character arcs and subplots in the Robin series. But she was a supporting character to Robin. Admittedly, it ran a lot longer and she wasn't always present, to say the least. How about Brenda in 2006 Blue Beetle?
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-16-2020 at 11:13 AM.

  9. #1014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    It wasn’t though. She had her own character arc supporting Batgirl, but as a superhero she still was just supporting the new Batgirl.
    I think Barbara has an arc in Stephanie Batgirl's run at first (before she returns to BoP), but it is true she was a supporting character.

    I wouldn't want Barbara's role is exclusively support for Batgirls. I really hope that isn't the role she has in Future States.

  10. #1015
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    It wasn’t though. She had her own character arc supporting Batgirl, but as a superhero she still was just supporting the new Batgirl. It was inherently a rather limited role. At the end of the day, as a superhero, how involved is supporting Batgirl.
    Well, no, I think she had her own arc in addition to supporting Batgirl, but her interaction and experience with Steph contributed to it. I think she was very involved in helping mold Steph as Batgirl but she wasn't permanently going to do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I can't really say, as I haven't read much of that title, as I conceptually like Steph as Spoiler, but you have to admit, Barbara wasn't headlining her own book (or even title in an anthology), she was the non-titular character in someone else's. I would typically call that the supporting character to the titular one. I've made much the same complaint about those who wanted Gar to be supporting cast for Vic in a Cyborg book. I won't say it's worse than not being used at all. But it's not the same as being the headliner. Supporting characters can and should, IMO, have their own plots and character arcs sometimes, too.

    I mean, Steph had character arcs and subplots in the Robin series. But she was a supporting character to Robin. Admittedly, it ran a lot longer and she wasn't always present, to say the least. How about Brenda in 2006 Blue Beetle?
    I think it's important to develop supporting characters but headliner characters can also just as readily serve as supporting characters in other books, so long as they're used well and impactfully. At least in my opinion.

  11. #1016
    Fantastic Member sorboares's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    I think Barbara has an arc in Stephanie Batgirl's run at first (before she returns to BoP), but it is true she was a supporting character.

    I wouldn't want Barbara's role is exclusively support for Batgirls. I really hope that isn't the role she has in Future States.
    That is the problem for me when Babs is Oracle she is just a supporting character. In Batgirls Future State so far there has been NO mention of Babs at all as either Oracle or Batgirl which really is a shame. I am really worried about issue 50 of Batgirl because I am worried how it will end and if they will make her give up being Batgirl. I really hate that it looks like Babs as Batgirl is no more! I love her as Batgirl and I don't mind her being both Oracle and Batgirl but I really hate if she ends up not being Batgirl anymore. I love seeing Babs as Batgirl kicking butt and being in on the action and jumping from rooftops either alone or with the Batfamily. It would be amazing to see her in team Batgirl and all three Batgirls (Babs,Cass & Steph) kicking butt together as Batgirl.

  12. #1017
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    Babs needs to run the team. If they're going to do Oracle and do proper presentation she would most likely need BoP, and considering the Batgirls in Future State I could easily see Babs being the leadership of Cass of Steph. Babs is the heavy of hitter of three in terms of experience and connections in the DC universe.

  13. #1018
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    Babs needs to run the team. If they're going to do Oracle and do proper presentation she would most likely need BoP, and considering the Batgirls in Future State I could easily see Babs being the leadership of Cass of Steph. Babs is the heavy of hitter of three in terms of experience and connections in the DC universe.
    I'm actually kind of surprised there's a Future State Gotham City Sirens but not Birds of Prey.

  14. #1019
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I'm actually kind of surprised there's a Future State Gotham City Sirens but not Birds of Prey.
    I know same....I think it's just cause it has Harley. I don't hate GCS, it's just I prefer heroic missions, rather than trying to convice us Harley is an anti-hero when she's dropped bombs on Gotham.

  15. #1020
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    Nicola Scott interview mentioned there's a major player in Nightwing book, which my first thought is Babs.

    She said Nightwing is the leader of the rebellion and makes Arkham his home base.

    So far we've seen the family scattered throughout Gotham. Catwoman hijacking a train and Steph partners with either Cass or Tim, Jason possibly infiltrating the Magistrate, Katana and maybe Duke in Outsiders. (Luke seems to take the initiative to be Batman on his own, since in the story is Nightwing is surprised to meet this Next Batman.)

    If all of them is led by Nightwing, who also seems to be active in the field trying to save as many people as he can, then it makes sense to have someone coordinating everyone through comms, and that would be Oracle Barbara, also based in Arkham.

    Though I wonder why she's not mentioned by name and has to be kept secret if it's Babs. One reason I can think of is she's not walking, but if she is, then either Cass and Steph would be called Batgirl.

    So maybe it's not the role that's secret, but the costume reveal, since everyone got new threads. Some kind of Oracle-Batgirl hybrid, disability still questionable.

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