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  1. #1021
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    I know same....I think it's just cause it has Harley. I don't hate GCS, it's just I prefer heroic missions, rather than trying to convice us Harley is an anti-hero when she's dropped bombs on Gotham.
    I don't know if it's Harley in this instance because apparently they have a new third member, since Harley is imprisoned.

  2. #1022
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Maybe Punchline?
    Appreciation Thread Indexes
    Marvel | Spider-Man | X-Men | NEW!! DC Comics | Batman | Superman | Wonder Woman

  3. #1023
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    There's a lot of bitterness that permeates on the sub that Babs is somehow the issue for all their character's problems or lack of spotlight and I feel like I'm just rereading a lot of pseudo-intellectual takes on it in a way to make it look like Babs is a bad character.

    I just feel like I'm reading a lot of these "hot takes" lately as and people acting like they're new ideas.

  4. #1024
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    I just feel like I'm reading a lot of these "hot takes" lately as and people acting like they're new ideas.
    I don't think most people are acting like they are new ideas. Repeating the same discussions over and over and over again is pretty common in most forums that don't move to totally new discussion each week with a new episode, etc. (and even there, it's not uncommon).

  5. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I don't think most people are acting like they are new ideas. Repeating the same discussions over and over and over again is pretty common in most forums that don't move to totally new discussion each week with a new episode, etc. (and even there, it's not uncommon).
    We must add that people on this forum seem to have an almost total disinterest in current floppies stories.

    Only big events seems to bring more discussion.

    So, even when a Batgirl comic is released once in the month, there is little discussion about the events there.
    Last edited by Konja7; 10-19-2020 at 05:25 AM.

  6. #1026
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    I don't think most people are acting like they are new ideas. Repeating the same discussions over and over and over again is pretty common in most forums that don't move to totally new discussion each week with a new episode, etc. (and even there, it's not uncommon).
    I totally understand reoccurring discussions. It's just in the Barbara Gordon appreciation thread, it's common to see people trying to justify why she shouldn't exist. Like the Barbara Gordon thread devolves a lot into that.
    Last edited by RedQueen; 10-19-2020 at 05:28 AM.

  7. #1027
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    I totally understand reoccurring discussions. It's just in the Barbara Gordon appreciation thread, it's common trying to see people trying to justify why she shouldn't exist. Like the Barbara Gordon thread devolves a lot into that.
    No.

    It is true that many people in this thread doesn't like Barbara as Batgirl. It's possible a good amount of them are biased because they like more other character as a Batgirl.

    However, I think most people who comment on this thread like Barbara. They may don't like her as Batgirl, but they could like her as Oracle.

    Oracle was an aspect and concept so different from Batgirl that isn' t weird there is a division in the fandom. Not to mention the way DC threat these two aspects.


    I remember there was a time the forum have two appreciation threads for Barbara, one for Oracle and one for Batgirl.
    Last edited by Konja7; 10-19-2020 at 05:36 AM.

  8. #1028
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    No.

    It is true that many people in this thread doesn't like Barbara as Batgirl. It's possible a good amount of them are biased because they like more other character as a Batgirl.

    However, I think most people who comment on this thread like Barbara. They may don't like her as Batgirl, but they could like her as Oracle.

    Oracle was an aspect and concept so different from Batgirl that isn' t weird there is a division in the fandom. Not to mention the way DC threat these two aspects.


    I remember there was a time the forum have two appreciation threads for Barbara, one for Oracle and one for Batgirl.
    Nah if they don’t like her as batgirl is proably cuz they are attached to either steph or Cass
    Any female who is not batgirl is a bat extra

    Just like how it didn’t work to have two robins the other gets shunned by the writers

  9. #1029
    Incredible Member RedQueen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Nah if they don’t like her as batgirl is proably cuz they are attached to either steph or Cass
    Any female who is not batgirl is a bat extra

    Just like how it didn’t work to have two robins the other gets shunned by the writers
    Yeah I get that vibe. It's usually nothing to with Oracle, it's when they bring up Cass or Steph then you get a clear indication of what their narrative is really trying to say. I've seen a lot of arguments hide behind the Oracle argument when they really want Steph etc to be Batgirl.

    I enjoy Babs as Batgirl and Oracle, I'm advocate to appear it whatever shape of form she is. As long she gets good writing.

  10. #1030
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Nah if they don’t like her as batgirl is proably cuz they are attached to either steph or Cass
    Any female who is not batgirl is a bat extra
    And that's an egregiously wrong statement and I am proof of that. Although it is a sad state on the perception females within the Batfandom. I hated Steph as Batgirl, as I thought it was a demotion, and I adore old-school Steph (didn't really care for her more chirpy/quippy personality as Batgirl, either). I don't like prefer Cass as Batgirl and would go with Black Bat (I don't want Batgirl to be a legacy, as I'm not generally fond of them and Orphan is just a terrible name), though I have little interest in her. Barbara as someone who used to be Batgirl is great. Then she becomes Oracle. Then she should have her paralysis reversed and go back into the field. But not as Batgirl. I hate her de-aging and she's a 30+ year old woman who shouldn't newly take on a codename with "girl" in it. Plus, when it did happened, it coincided with a personality and tone-of-comic change, though that's been reversed some now.

    Oracle was an aspect and concept so different from Batgirl that isn' t weird there is a division in the fandom. Not to mention the way DC threat these two aspects.
    This is also true. Many much prefer her as Oracle. I've liked her in different eras as both. But there is nothing she can do as Oracle while paralyzed that she can't do while not. And I like the visual action of her in the field. And I have major issues with how she was paralyzed (thankfully other writers managed to do something good with it), do find a make-world aspect to it outside the BoP (my favorite usage for her as Oracle), and really hate the double standard where all the male Batheroes get healed from similar injuries and female one doesn't.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-19-2020 at 09:06 AM.

  11. #1031
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    Yeah I get that vibe. It's usually nothing to with Oracle, it's when they bring up Cass or Steph then you get a clear indication of what their narrative is really trying to say. I've seen a lot of arguments hide behind the Oracle argument when they really want Steph etc to be Batgirl.

    I enjoy Babs as Batgirl and Oracle, I'm advocate to appear it whatever shape of form she is. As long she gets good writing.
    Yeah, I know I probably come off as anti-Babs as Batgirl but I'm more in the camp of just wanting Barbara to be written well and in-character, and her stories to be good, with a dash of also wanting Cass and Steph to be treated well whether they're Batgirl or not.

  12. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    And that's an egregiously wrong statement and I am proof of that. Although it is a sad state on the perception females within the Batfandom. I hated Steph as Batgirl, as I thought it was a demotion, and I adore old-school Steph (didn't really care for her more chirpy/quippy personality as Batgirl, either). I don't like prefer Cass as Batgirl and would go with Black Bat (I don't want Batgirl to be a legacy, as I'm not generally fond of them and Orphan is just a terrible name), though I have little interest in her. Barbara as someone who used to be Batgirl is great. Then she becomes Oracle. Then she should have her paralysis reversed and go back into the field. But not as Batgirl. I hate her de-aging and she's a 30+ year old woman who shouldn't newly take on a codename with "girl" in it. Plus, when it did happened, it coincided with a personality and tone-of-comic change, though that's been reversed some now.

    This is also true. Many much prefer her as Oracle. I've liked her in different eras as both. But there is nothing she can do as Oracle while paralyzed that she can't do while not. And I like the visual action of her in the field. And I have major issues with how she was paralyzed (thankfully other writers managed to do something good with it), do find a make-world aspect to it outside the BoP (my favorite usage for her as Oracle), and really hate the double standard where all the male Batheroes get healed from similar injuries and female one doesn't.
    When New52 was announced, I was expecting that Barbara as Batgirl will mantain her experience as Oracle even if the age is reduced. However, DC really seems to want Barbara to be younger and inexperienced when she is Batgirl.

    Honestly, I think many Barbara fans want her to be Batgirl because it is a recognizable identity. So, it gives more prominence to Barbara in the Batfamily.

    In itself, Barbara could be back in the field with a totally new identity. However, if Barbara has a less recognizable identity, it is possible she will be relegated (as it happens with Stephanie and Cassandra)

    That's why many Barbara fans wouldn't want a different identity from Batgirl.
    Last edited by Konja7; 10-19-2020 at 09:34 AM.

  13. #1033
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedQueen View Post
    Yeah I get that vibe. It's usually nothing to with Oracle, it's when they bring up Cass or Steph then you get a clear indication of what their narrative is really trying to say. I've seen a lot of arguments hide behind the Oracle argument when they really want Steph etc to be Batgirl.

    I enjoy Babs as Batgirl and Oracle, I'm advocate to appear it whatever shape of form she is. As long she gets good writing.
    Yeah. Many times fans only worry about their favorites, so they wouldn't really care about other characters. I think that is valid.

    The annoying is when they try to hide their indifference by saying that the best thing for the character is an option that is not really convenient for the character (in fact, they just don't want this character to not affect their favorite character).
    Last edited by Konja7; 10-19-2020 at 10:19 AM.

  14. #1034
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    When New52 was announced, I was expecting that Barbara as Batgirl will mantain her experience as Oracle even if the age is reduced. However, DC really seems to want Barbara to be younger and inexperienced when she is Batgirl.
    Yep. It predates the reboot, of course. She was de-aged years before that. To a certain degree, I can understand it, if not like it - they don't want Batman to get too old, so the others (particularly Dick earliest and who aged most) needed to get younger. But it went way further than that. She was recast as much younger when she became Batgirl, and similarly aged to Dick. I don't know if that was to capitalize on B:TAS or just a generalized effort to make Batgirl younger in earlier post-COIE (where she was 3-6 years older than Dick, depending on a couple different contradictory stories in the 1980s). And I don't know if Batman's increasingly dominant status had anything to do with it but after the age change in latter post-COIE era when her younger days as Batgirl were explored, the dynamic was entirely different than it had been originally. She was recast a protege of Batman - something she never was originally. I hated Batgirl Year One - admittedly don't remember most of it now. I do remember her idiotic thing with the rope and she would have dead practically day one without Batman, which I didn't like. Her and Dick retconned earlier in their history (which I think Dixon did, originally, but am unsure of), which also don't care for. Worst of all to me was Batman knowing her identity immediately and her not knowing his. Complete power imbalance that I do not at all care for. Not to mention the rope later, which is basically him giving "permission" for her to work. I hate new heroes having to get permission from old heroes to work (another reason for liking Steph defying them) since those old heroes didn't have to get permission or approval from anyone. Though I'll acknowledge it's murkier here, since she wears his symbol.

    How why the heck Catwoman needed to basically be Dick's age instead of Batman's when rebooted is a question I have no answer to, but it's not relevant to this thread.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 10-19-2020 at 10:21 AM.

  15. #1035
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Yep. It predates the reboot, of course. She was de-aged years before that. To a certain degree, I can understand it, if not like it - they don't want Batman to get too old, so the others (particularly Dick earliest and who aged most) needed to get younger. But it went way further than that. She was recast as much younger when she became Batgirl, and similarly aged to Dick. I don't know if that was to capitalize on B:TAS or just a generalized effort to make Batgirl younger in earlier post-COIE (where she was 3-6 years older than Dick, depending on a couple different contradictory stories in the 1980s). And I don't know if Batman's increasingly dominant status had anything to do with it but after the age change in latter post-COIE era when her younger days as Batgirl were explored, the dynamic was entirely different than it had been originally. She was recast a protege of Batman - something she never was originally. I hated Batgirl Year One - admittedly don't remember most of it now. I do remember her idiotic thing with the rope and she would have dead practically day one without Batman, which I didn't like. Her and Dick retconned earlier in their history (which I think Dixon did, originally, but am unsure of), which also don't care for. Worst of all to me was Batman knowing her identity immediately and her not knowing his. Complete power imbalance that I do not at all care for. Not to mention the rope later, which is basically him giving "permission" for her to work. I hate new heroes having to get permission from old heroes to work (another reason for liking Steph defying them) since those old heroes didn't have to get permission or approval from anyone. Though I'll acknowledge it's murkier here, since she wears his symbol.

    How why the heck Catwoman needed to basically be Dick's age instead of Batman's when rebooted is a question I have no answer to, but it's not relevant to this thread.
    I've never heard Catwoman was Dick's age after the reboot. Where was it mentioned?

    That would pretty weird considering the relationship between Selina and Bruce.

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