Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, Oracle Appreciation 2020

[Restingvoice]

How why the heck Catwoman needed to basically be Dick's age instead of Batman's when rebooted is a question I have no answer to, but it's not relevant to this thread.

Because the main concept are all heroes are young and new, only 5 years into the game. They're written as mid twenties. Bruce is the outlier because they want to keep his kids, but Catwoman's following the others like Clark and Diana. Even Ollie, who should be a bit older since he's had Roy, look and sounds like a mid-twenties, and they kept Roy from Green Arrow book for most of the run to maintain that illusion.

I've never heard Catwoman was Dick's age after the reboot. Where was it mentioned?

That would pretty weird considering the relationship between Selina and Bruce.

She's 23, Dick's 21. It reads like Catwoman's new to the game, and really horny for Batman, while Dick and Bruce's relationship is like an older and younger brother. Bat and Cat didn't really have a relationship beyond sex buddies, and Catwoman didn't know who Dick Grayson is and his relation to Batman. She's seen and heard the Bat family but didn't know their specific relationships. Dick and Selina don't really interact, even when Dick rallies all Bat allies and she answered, they don't really have a face to face.

[Godlike13]

The New 52 was a mess. The entire universe was suppose to be younger and less experienced, but they made exceptions, confused creators, and it just turned out inconsistent and weird.

[Tzigone]

I've never heard Catwoman was Dick's age after the reboot. Where was it mentioned?

According to citations (I haven't read it, as I was not into so many of the concepts of New 52 Bats and didn't read anything until Rebirth), she claimed to be 23 in Catwoman volume 4 #2 (Dec. 2011). Of course, I guess she could have been lying - like I said, didn't read. And Dick was 21 and Bruce 31ish, to my understanding. Mind you, someone recently told me they'd read in interview that Talia was 19 when Bruce met her (when Dick was in his freshman year of college). Haven't found source on that, though. But she was a student at the University of Cairo studying medicine, so it seems feasible. But that's more reasonable to me because Talia was never introduced until Dick was an adult. Selina was around when he was a child. Of course, given that he was 16 before he ever became Robin, I think, in New 52, it's all such a muddle. Comes from wanting to keep everything and still keep Bruce young - timelines get compressed to a degree where things don't really make sense.

Of course, it feels that way with Barbara's timeline to me, too, when she was 21 in her post-Oracle phase. Thing is, with the succession of young ones Bruce has, you can't really keep them and keep his age down without some massive rewrites to how certain things happened. And DC didn't seem to work out the details of what had happened to get things in the (then) current state when they did it.

The New 52 was a mess. The entire universe was suppose to be younger and less experienced, but they made exceptions, confused creators, and it just turned out inconsistent and weird.

True. And while I like some things Rebirth brought back, continuity is still in a horrible snarl. And DC can't stick to a plan long enough to implement it (Doomsday Clock is indicative). I absolutely don't want a clean reboot, but at this point, it doesn't bother me as much as it once would have, because I don't think they have a functional, consistent continuity at the moment.

If they do another reboot, full or partial, they really need to plan out all the details better. I know, I know, some of this same stuff happened with COIE (Donna, of course, and then Hawkworld happening later instead of just in the event). But still. And they need editorial control to make sure everyone sticks to the new realities rules instead of one writer in Book A using one history and two months later another writer in Book B uses a different history.

Then again, maybe they just need to forward without revisiting the past. I don't know.

[AmiMizuno]

I wonder with everything. Wouldn’t it make sense Dc just to have Babs,Steph and Cassie all just be the Batgirls? If we can’t have the Birds of Prey. Than Babs can lead the Batgirls

[Frontier]

Nowadays I just assume Babs and Dick are close in age, although it's kind of funny how media tend to make Babs debut or be active around Damian's time as Robin and Dick already being Nightwing.

[Konja7]

I wonder with everything. Wouldn’t it make sense Dc just to have Babs,Steph and Cassie all just be the Batgirls? If we can’t have the Birds of Prey. Than Babs can lead the Batgirls

Honestly, it would have a lot more sense if Barbara is Batwoman.

Barbara has more experience than Cassandra and Stephanie. So, I don't think Barbara should still be a "girl".

[Frontier]

Honestly, it would have a lot more sense if Barbara is Batwoman.

Barbara has more experience than Cassandra and Stephanie. So, I don't think Barbara should still be a "girl".

It probably depends on what's going on with Kate.

[RedQueen]

I wonder with everything. Wouldn’t it make sense Dc just to have Babs,Steph and Cassie all just be the Batgirls? If we can’t have the Birds of Prey. Than Babs can lead the Batgirls

At this point I'd like an idea of a Batgirl network. I think Batgirl is such a temporary title for most characters, eventually you have to outgrow it. I like the idea of them working as a network of vigilantes. I just dislike "Batgirl" cause you can't evolve into Batwoman because it's already taken.

[RedQueen]

Honestly, it would have a lot more sense if Barbara is Batwoman.

Barbara has more experience than Cassandra and Stephanie. So, I don't think Barbara should still be a "girl".

Barbara I don't think could ever be the official Batwoman. At a time before Kate, there was definitely an oppportunity. But now Kate is THE Batwoman. And there would be a lot of politics trying to take that mantel away from her also it's now sort of LGBT icon so there's a factor that you don't wanna sideline another gay character.

Babs just needs a new identity that's not bogged by politics. I'm not saying it's bad politics but the debate between batgirl v oracle is just constant. Give Babs a new identity and a good writer, and I'd think it would be refreshing.

[Rac7d*]

Barbara I don't think could ever be the official Batwoman. At a time before Kate, there was definitely an oppportunity. But now Kate is THE Batwoman. And there would be a lot of politics trying to take that mantel away from her also it's now sort of LGBT icon so there's a factor that you don't wanna sideline another gay character.

Babs just needs a new identity that's not bogged by politics. I'm not saying it's bad politics but the debate between batgirl v oracle is just constant. Give Babs a new identity and a good writer, and I'd think it would be refreshing.

She doesn’t need a new identity she has one. It’s hard to get a new name to stick as Drake and Orphan has shown, so taking an established mantle is easier. Babs can be Oracle and Batgirl at the same time. She doesn’t need to evolve she never gonna get older or better yet time and life events will never need her to leave it behind.

Tough luck for the other girls but babs is not inclined to share just so they can get spotlight they will never have with any other name

[sorboares]

I don't understand why people get so upset about Babs being called Batgirl. Just coz the word girl is in her name does not mean she is a little girl, we all know she is a woman and is in her twenties. It's just a code name for her while she is in her costume, I have no problem with it. I love Babs as Batgirl and still hope she continues on as Batgirl for a long time to come.
Yes it could have been cool to see her as Batwoman but I think that ship has sailed as Kate is Batwoman now and she is very important especially because she is a LGBTQI icon which is great!

[Psy-lock]

Barbara really should've been Batwoman from the start, she was Bruce's peer in the Pre-Crisis continuity. Shayera was upgraded from Hawkgirl to Hawkwoman, but Barbara never was and probably never will be. So DC will keep de-aging her until she's younger than Damian.

[Digifiend]

It probably depends on what's going on with Kate.

Yeah, Kate would probably need to be retired for someone else to become Batwoman. I was surprised when the Arrowverse show went with an original character when Kate's actress walked out. Probably wanted to still have a lesbian in the mantle, and none of the other comic book Bat characters fitted the bill. With Arrow having already mentioned the name Oracle was taken (when Felicity, who had a similar role, was given her Overwatch codename) it's already established that Babs exists. Had Barbara taken over the name in the show, they might have considered it in the comics too for synergy. Now though... yeah, not likely.

[Tzigone]

Barbara really should've been Batwoman from the start, she was Bruce's peer in the Pre-Crisis continuity. Shayera was upgraded from Hawkgirl to Hawkwoman, but Barbara never was and probably never will be. So DC will keep de-aging her until she's younger than Damian.

Yeah, they actually had a story where she declined the idea of being Batwoman (Kathy Kane guested). I presume that was because so many fans were asking about it.

She's not as bad as Supergirl about not growing up, but she's still been de-aged quite a bit over the years. Like poor Raven. Doesn't even a "kid" name, but she started as Dick's peer. Then was Tim's. Then Damian's. Though that's not as bad now as it was.

[kjn]

She's not as bad as Supergirl about not growing up, but she's still been de-aged quite a bit over the years. Like poor Raven. Doesn't even a "kid" name, but she started as Dick's peer. Then was Tim's. Then Damian's. Though that's not as bad now as it was.

Heck, when she started out Babs was senior to Dick by at least four years, probably more.