Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, Oracle Appreciation 2020

[AmiMizuno]

It would be hilarious if Babs is Dick's Dawn in the next season. While Starfire is only in the background barely interacting with Dick like the past seasons. Titan fans gonna get more pissed with this scenario more than a love triangle between the three of them.

Yea. I just don't want this mess to happen in the live-action show. I mean should Babs be in the Titans? She has BoP

[Rac7d*]

Yea. I just don't want this mess to happen in the live-action show. I mean should Babs be in the Titans? She has BoP

She had, in the mainstream eyes that team belongs to Harley now

[RedQueen]

It would be hilarious if Babs is Dick's Dawn in the next season. While Starfire is only in the background barely interacting with Dick like the past seasons. Titan fans gonna get more pissed with this scenario more than a love triangle between the three of them.

The show has seem to be aiming for more grounding stories. Which doesn't really suit the Titans mythos. I mean I enjoy the characters but doesn't feel like a Titans tv show. It seems to becoming a bit more Gotham centric next season with Babs and Red Hood. As bat fan I am excited though I can see why Titans and shipping fans wouldnt care for it.

[RedQueen]

Yeah, I kind of figure she'll be Oracle unless she's one of the imprisoned vigilante's.

Yeah I could see that though. With Oracle though it's easy for her to be just fixed into a secondary tech support character, which without a birds of prey title, I think it's what will happen.

[sorboares]

Kind of worried cause we didn't hear anything from Babs in Future state. Wouldn't be surprised if she popped up in Batgirls, but think she will be Oracle.

It really sucks there is nothing for Babs in Future State, I'm so worried Babs as Batgirl is gone after issue 50 comes out this month. I seriously hope I'm wrong and we get more of Babs as Batgirl as well as Oracle!

[Godlike13]

Well if Babs is going back to Oracle, Future State makes it clear how important Oracle is going to be.

[Digifiend]

While it's clear that Cass and Steph are the eponymous characters, maybe Babs will show up in the Batgirls story? It would be easy to explain that her implant failed, so she's retired as Batgirl and the younger duo are her successors.

[Godlike13]

Batgirl support is, and always has been, an insulting role for the character. I still find it ridiculous how people will criticize her Batgirl because Oracle was more important, yet then at the same time be ok with Oracle being positioned under Batgirl as Batgirl support. It’s like putting Nightwing in Robin. Wtf is the point then.

[Tzigone]

Batgirl support is, and always has been, an insulting role for the character. I still find it ridiculous how people will criticize her Batgirl because Oracle was more important, yet then at the same time be ok with Oracle being positioned under Batgirl as Batgirl support. It’s like putting Nightwing in Robin. Wtf is the point then.

Heh, it's funny you feel that way. I always thought off her as Batgirl's boss in the Steph ones, and thought it an insult that Steph went from independent Spoiler to Barbara's employee.

I actually didn't like Barbara as Batman or JL support for that reason, though, and preferred Oracle as leading the BoP. And not working from a building Bruce owned or being funded by him. I also hated her being retconned to premiering younger and being Batman's protege in the latter post-COIE era. I liked her as an adult and peer and the much more independent operator she was in the 1970s Batgirl. Where she didn't have that much relationship with Bruce. She worked with him sometimes, of course. More with Robin (again, as equals by then) and they were the ones with the interpersonal relationship. I like Oracle of the '90s (before she stared pulling Bruce's controlling stuff - they really did start giving Bat-adjacents Bruce's bad qualities), but I liked part of 1970s Batgirl, too. Biggest problem with the 1990s is that, despite some good stories, Oracle and Nightwing were brought under Batman's authority to a degree. He set strategies and assigned tasks for them, and so forth. They might have done their own things often in their own books, but whenever he wanted to take the "boss" role, they usually went along with, even if complaining. At this point, I think they need to leave/stay out of Gotham if they are to be independent (which I know has been tried) and be thought of as primary heroes in their own right instead of Bat-satellites. And not be in Batman centric stories all that often. Worked for Dick for a while, but the title went downhill.

[Godlike13]

An authoritarian role to the star is still just a supporting role. Its like trying to claim Bruce was more important then Terry in Batman Beyond, or Obi Wan was the hero of Star Wars. Oracle was just somebody for the new Batgirl to disobey and prove herself too. Oracle was there to help bring legitimacy to Steph as the new Batgirl. But if Batgirl isn’t important, which is said often, being Batgirl’s babysitter is even less important. If Oracle is suppose to be a step up, when that’s what they do with Oracle it just becomes a step below. Becoming Oracle again to show up in Batgirls is a **** future. She’s not actually going anywhere as Oracle then. Again it’s like if Nightwing’s future was to help Tim in Robin Eternal. That wouldn’t be something to celebrate or look forward too.

[Konja7]

An authoritarian role to the star is still just a supporting role. Its like trying to claim Bruce was more important then Terry in Batman Beyond, or Obi Wan was the hero of Star Wars. Oracle was just somebody for the new Batgirl to disobey and prove herself too. Oracle was there to help bring legitimacy to Steph as the new Batgirl. But if Batgirl isn’t important, which is said often, being Batgirl’s babysitter is even less important. If Oracle is suppose to be a step up, when that’s what they do with Oracle it just becomes a step below. Becoming Oracle again to show up in Batgirls is a **** future. She’s not actually going anywhere as Oracle then. Again it’s like if Nightwing’s future was to help Tim in Robin Eternal. That wouldn’t be something to celebrate or look forward too.

I agree. That's why I've never want her to be Oracle again, since it's pretty easy that she becomes a supporting character.

However, I don't like her as Batgirl either, because it just means DC will mantain her on the young hero role with that alias.

In Future State, Barbara would be 30's or even 40's, so Batgirl seems even less appropiate.


Now, Kara is Superwoman in Future State, why Barbara wouldn't be Batwoman?

[kjn]

A lot of this will depend on how the title will be written. But a Batgirls title with Oracle mentoring Cass and Steph can easily work out well, and be similar to the old Birds of Prey dynamic, with the difference that Babs will be more of a mentoring role than she was in BoP visavi Black Canary and Huntress.

It's not a guarantee that it will be good. But at least I think the concept is solid and can work out well with the right writer.

But right now we don't even know if Babs—or any Batgirl—will get an ongoing with Future State, or even what her role will be. But with DC introducing a new Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, it'd be strange if they kept Babs back in her old role, especially since her evolved role is one of the most defined and memorable ones within all of DC.

[Tzigone]

I agree. That's why I've never want her to be Oracle again, since it's pretty easy that she becomes a supporting character.

However, I don't like her as Batgirl either, because it just means DC will mantain her on the young hero role with that alias.

My preferred path would be her debuting as an adult who works independently as Batgirl. Paralyzed and becomes Oracle - but when she's doing something heroic, not in the crappy Killing Joke way where it's all about Jim and Bruce (yes, I know it's a popular story, but I don't like it) - and forms BoP (this would not last forever, as there was, when I read, a lot of travel involved, and I'd still have Sin and Dinah traveling less once she became a parent). Paralysis reversed by some means, and Barbara goes back out as a street level hero (no longer in Gotham) with a new name. Still does some solo work as Oracle, too. Keep the identities separate so adversaries don't connect the two.

I agree she can get shunted into supporting role too easily as Oracle. I also think that unparalyzed she can still do every single Oracle thing and still do more action, too. Plus, I hate the double standard where when every male Bat got back broken or paralyzed, they got well. Oh, and it's not really compatible with the tech level and folks with healing powers all about in the DCU. And I don't buy the notion that Barbara doesn't care that she got paralyzed or doesn't think she lost anything when it happened. I get it from the meta sense of representation, but it doesn't fly for me. Plus, person in wheelchair in that role was not exactly a new innovation (though well-executed early on) and Batman and the JL and so forth managed just find before she ever took on the role, so it feels like "make work" for her. Which is why I prefer her with BoP as Oracle.

[Godlike13]

A lot of this will depend on how the title will be written. But a Batgirls title with Oracle mentoring Cass and Steph can easily work out well, and be similar to the old Birds of Prey dynamic, with the difference that Babs will be more of a mentoring role than she was in BoP visavi Black Canary and Huntress.

It's not a guarantee that it will be good. But at least I think the concept is solid and can work out well with the right writer.

But right now we don't even know if Babs—or any Batgirl—will get an ongoing with Future State, or even what her role will be. But with DC introducing a new Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, it'd be strange if they kept Babs back in her old role, especially since her evolved role is one of the most defined and memorable ones within all of DC.

BoP was an extension of Oracle and what it represented. It’s important that it didn’t involve Batgirls or Robins, and that it branched Babs out with other characters and into the greater DC. Trying to replicate it with Batgirls turns Oracle into the trainer of Batgirls, and just makes the role a glorified Batgirl with even less relevancy. It’s not an evolved role if it doesn’t actually amount to anything evolved. If they want to sell Oracle as something more then Batgirl, then they have to actually sell Oracle as something more then Batgirl. A position in a Batgirls book or story isn’t something more then Batgirl.
In a Future State where they are introducing a new Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, for Babs to seemingly have no future doesn’t bode well. It’s Batman Reborn all over again. That maybe she’ll pop up in the Batgirls story just shows how small her prospects apparently are.

[Restingvoice]

Speaking of Oracle = mentor = supporting character, I don't care, because that's what happened to characters when they get older, they mentor the younger ones. Whether they're the main or they support that depends on what kind of story is told. Is it a story of a young student finding their way in the world, or an experienced character who's also a mentor.

But if field adventures is the problem, then just give her a flying wheelchair like a certain bald professor, or at least something with a rocket launcher and wheels that can scale building