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  1. #1201

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    not a fan of batgirl-prime being her public name. batgirl is fine. as far as Oracle and Spoiler, Batgirl is fine, too. Let the criminals be confused.

    wait a minute-- Barbara isn't paralyzed again, is she? If she is, I'm angry...

  2. #1202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    not a fan of batgirl-prime being her public name. batgirl is fine. as far as Oracle and Spoiler, Batgirl is fine, too. Let the criminals be confused.

    wait a minute-- Barbara isn't paralyzed again, is she? If she is, I'm angry...
    No. Barbara can still walk.

  3. #1203
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Though Luke has warned her she's in the last chance saloon - if the chip gets fried again, it's totalled for good and she will be back in the wheelchair. Maybe by using Cass and Steph as field operatives, she'd be lessening the risk to herself, only using her Batgirl gear in an emergency?
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  4. #1204
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    Quote Originally Posted by atomicbattery View Post
    The dynamic depiction of human anatomy in colorful costumes has been a major, and probably the primary, aspect of the appeal of superhero comics since Action Comics #1 in 1938.

    No one wears Alfred or ProfessorX t-shirts.

    So Barbara gets to go back to being the disembodied voice, and maybe gets to tell off Batman once in a while (which isn’t even unique anymore).
    Wonderful. I’m sure that many at these boards- particularly those who passionately advocate for having a different character wear the Batgirl suit- will agree that she has once again become a much more ‘interesting’ character.
    I'm not denying the main emphasis on costumed heroics, but there's value in characters who go about differently. But I place a lot of value in Babs as Oracle and what her character was able to achieve in that role, and how she was depicted.

    I will concede that she and Bruce don't seem to get along well anymore, which is a shame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Just saying, Batgirl Prime. We just had a Nightwing Prime. They are just recycling this same idea. It didn't work for We Are Robin and didn't work on Nightwing.
    I think it's a completely different execution in this case, and its more to serve this trio in a way that works for all three of them without Babs having to quit being Batgirl or for Steph and Cass to be utterly irrelevant and disconnected from their own legacy.
    And im calling her useless because im not ignoring what she's actually shown doing on-page. What is she actually doing here. Seriously. She can't do anything to Ghostmaker, that was already shown and explained to us, she can't even find Ghostmaker. She is now calling in Nightwing for info on him, and Steph and Cass to read a wall. This isn't even about her being in an active costume role, this is about Oracle as a role and the way it is being portrayed. But Steph said Batgirl Prime so lets ignore what she is actually being shown to do on page here and actual value of her current contribution.
    This is Oracle at her worst and most frustrating. Writers using her as a vehicle to dump exposition, while she assists their main heroes in remedial needs, and is used to involve others for simple things she can easily just do herself. Hmm Im so busy on my computer not finding any info about the bad guy or any clues to a location, so let me call in others tell me about him and read this wall for me. This is a poor representation of the idea of what Oracle's value is suppose to be, but people will ignore it and even argue value because at the end of the day it gets them to what they really want.
    I mean, I appreciate the Batfamily actually being organized and acting like a unit, so I find that valuable, but that's just me. It's not like she could really do much more as Batgirl in that situation but she has a very clear function in this role.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    not a fan of batgirl-prime being her public name. batgirl is fine. as far as Oracle and Spoiler, Batgirl is fine, too. Let the criminals be confused.

    wait a minute-- Barbara isn't paralyzed again, is she? If she is, I'm angry...
    Batgirl Prime isn't her public name. It's just what the other Batgirls call her.

  5. #1205
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    It feels a bit like Geoff Johns levels of using stories to set desirable status quos rather than telling a compelling, emotionally resonate, or well thought out story. Like yeah, some people might like the idea and it might make enough sense for them to see how the idea would be logical. But I don't think its entirely there on the pages and relies on the meta knowledge and expectations of fans.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  6. #1206
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    It feels a bit like Geoff Johns levels of using stories to set desirable status quos rather than telling a compelling, emotionally resonate, or well thought out story. Like yeah, some people might like the idea and it might make enough sense for them to see how the idea would be logical. But I don't think its entirely there on the pages and relies on the meta knowledge and expectations of fans.
    I think what her role accomplishes is clear on-page, but there's only so much you can get into it in a Batman book (about, well, Batman).

  7. #1207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think what her role accomplishes is clear on-page, but there's only so much you can get into it in a Batman book (about, well, Batman).
    How exactly, what is it that she is accomplishing on page here?
    Last edited by Godlike13; 12-02-2020 at 04:04 PM.

  8. #1208
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    Whoa, Barbara was sitting in a chair in front of a computer AND in glasses?!?! According to half the fans in this thread this would be her single best appearance in nearly a decade.

  9. #1209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Whoa, Barbara was sitting in a chair in front of a computer AND in glasses?!?! According to half the fans in this thread this would be her single best appearance in nearly a decade.
    Barbara is still Batgirl in the field. She appears as Batgirl in Detective Comics.

    So, I really doubt she will become Oracle in a permanent way.

  10. #1210
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    How exactly, what is it that she is accomplishing on page here?
    Keeping the Batfamily organized, abridged, and on-point and operating them like a unit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    Whoa, Barbara was sitting in a chair in front of a computer AND in glasses?!?! According to half the fans in this thread this would be her single best appearance in nearly a decade.
    I personally prefer that to playing ping-pong with the Penguin or making out with Jason Bard, but to each their own.

  11. #1211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    No. Barbara can still walk.
    Then why is she Oracle again? The big thing about Oracle was what she represented. If she can fight then she should be not sitting down looking a screen?

    There fact that the universe and batfamily without the need for the service Oracle performed indicates that the function isn't really necessary.

    I feel the return of Oracle is just a way for Tynion to get rid of the obstacle preventing his 90's favs from becoming what they were in the comics he grew up with and pander to fans.

    I don't think the higher up liked that so we ended up with the compromise that is Batgirl Prime/Orphan, Spoiler with a Bat symbol and Babs as Oracle who is can suit up when ever dC needs her to

  12. #1212
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think what her role accomplishes is clear on-page, but there's only so much you can get into it in a Batman book (about, well, Batman).
    Yep I honestly don't know how the batfamily manged without this role for so long. This is what Batman and the Batfamily has been missing. Can't wait for more stories where Babs tells Bruce stuff, looks up stuff and manages everyone's work diary while wearing glasses.

    So far this Batman run has been full of bold and original ideas/characters. how does the writer do it?

  13. #1213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Keeping the Batfamily organized, abridged, and on-point and operating them like a unit.
    You realize you basically just described a secretary. It's not even really an accomplishment when this organized Bat Family isn't accomplishing anything.

  14. #1214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Then why is she Oracle again? The big thing about Oracle was what she represented. If she can fight then she should be not sitting down looking a screen?

    There fact that the universe and batfamily without the need for the service Oracle performed indicates that the function isn't really necessary.

    I feel the return of Oracle is just a way for Tynion to get rid of the obstacle preventing his 90's favs from becoming what they were in the comics he grew up with and pander to fans.

    I don't think the higher up liked that so we ended up with the compromise that is Batgirl Prime/Orphan, Spoiler with a Bat symbol and Babs as Oracle who is can suit up when ever dC needs her to
    Barbara hasn't stopped to be Batgirl (she still appear in Detective Comics). Now, she just makes Oracle's job too.


    Honestly, this situation happens, because the current Batgirl comic doesn't sell good anymore.

    This is a problem for almost every Batfamily member (except Batman), but they can't really mantain that situation.

    They can't just really relaunch another Batgirl solo. That comic will likely fall on sales again.
    Last edited by Konja7; 12-03-2020 at 05:13 AM.

  15. #1215
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Then why is she Oracle again? The big thing about Oracle was what she represented. If she can fight then she should be not sitting down looking a screen?

    There fact that the universe and batfamily without the need for the service Oracle performed indicates that the function isn't really necessary.

    I feel the return of Oracle is just a way for Tynion to get rid of the obstacle preventing his 90's favs from becoming what they were in the comics he grew up with and pander to fans.

    I don't think the higher up liked that so we ended up with the compromise that is Batgirl Prime/Orphan, Spoiler with a Bat symbol and Babs as Oracle who is can suit up when ever dC needs her to
    I think it could be argued they didn't function as well as they did Post-Crisis, which is what this is trying to get back to. And, I mean, across the New 52, DCYou, and even Rebirth there were attempts to fulfill the Oracle role in some form or bring Babs back to that, so I don't think it's all that surprising that it finally happened.

    Cass finally gets to look like Cass again, which I do genuinely appreciate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fergus View Post
    Yep I honestly don't know how the batfamily manged without this role for so long. This is what Batman and the Batfamily has been missing. Can't wait for more stories where Babs tells Bruce stuff, looks up stuff and manages everyone's work diary while wearing glasses.

    So far this Batman run has been full of bold and original ideas/characters. how does the writer do it?
    I guess Oracle in Birds of Prey must come off like a joke now? Or all the stuff with Oracle Post-Crisis?

    It at least feels more tangible than Batgirl just being another body in Batfamily moments.
    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    You realize you basically just described a secretary. It's not even really an accomplishment when this organized Bat Family isn't accomplishing anything.
    I thought I was describing a military official or a commander. They're not accomplishing anything in regards to Ghostmaker within that issue since that's Bruce's story, and they might get more to do in the next issue, but I feel like there is enough going on in terms of world-building and character building to make up for it.

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