Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, Oracle Appreciation 2020

[Frontier]

Totally agree, why can the male characters heal and get better from broken backs, death, shot to the head and so much more. But Barbara has to remain crippled?
It makes no sense and she should be out fighting as Batgirl.
I don't see why she can't be Oracle in some missions and Batgirl in other missions?
Why does she have to be crippled again after finally being healed?
It took far too many years for her to be healed.
I don't think Batman fans would be happy if Bruce stayed crippled for all the years Babs did.
I HOPE DC use their brains and keep everyone happy and let Babs do both, she can be Oracle and Batgirl.

Rebirth BoP tried to show that she could be both but it didn't seem to stick well. Between being Oracle and Batgirl I feel like DC has to commit one way or another.

And then you have the other issue where there are fans of Babs as Batgirl and fans of Babs as Oracle and they seem to have two vastly different expectations of the character.

I'm not so sure about the last part, considering Oracle didn't actually debut in a bat book, but in Suicide Squad. And even later, she wasn't Bat family exclusive. She worked with the Justice League too.

But most of her main character focus and development happened in Batfamily titles.

Aesthetics and visuals are probably the most important part of comic books. They're a visual medium first and foremost.

Bronze Age Batgirl, and the DCAU Batgirl (not counting the horribly misogyny of the Killing Joke adaptation, but like whatever let's just pretend that shit never happened) both fall into exactly what I'm talking about. They're colourful, fun, pop art Babs. Who is not 'empowered' but POWERED. She doesn't need to be empowered through victimization of women, she already is powerful.

Yvonne Craig's Batgirl in the '66 show mixed with Burnside (which really does take most of it's aesthetic from a more updated riff on that) is the character. The DCAU Batgirl of the 90s and the Bronze Age Batgirl are very similar.

I only brought up the Harley Quinn comparison because Harley is very pop art and VERY POPULAR, not because I'm a fan (I'm not). Most Batgirl merch and fan art I see is in the vein of that. So judging by that and the success of Burnside, that's what people want.

The Sherlock Holmes angle is just my own flair. I love Babs' smarts and deductive skills. She remembers things similar to how Sherlock Holmes puts puzzles together in his brain. She's idiosyncratic and bloody brilliant.

But there's only so much the visuals can carry something without the proper stories and meaningful character development to make it matter and get people invested. What separates the Bronze Age and the animated depictions of Babs from Burnside is less flashiness and trendiness in favor of a relatively more straightforward an serious character. There is far more to Barbara Gordon than the '66 show. More Year One than Burnside.

I would say that intelligence and deductive skills were on full display as Oracle.

100%!

She can and should be able to do both! In 2020, leaning closer to 2021- the role of "info broker" is really a super duper part time gig. It's something Babs can do while she has her morning cup of coffee and surfs articles online, ya know? She can be Oracle and really just get all that stuff done before 8am when it's time to go to work/go kick ass as Batgirl.

Oracle did more than just be an information broker though. It's belittling what she was doing by saying it was just a "part time gig" or could be reduced as such.

[Konja7]

Aesthetics and visuals are probably the most important part of comic books. They're a visual medium first and foremost.

Bronze Age Batgirl, and the DCAU Batgirl (not counting the horribly misogyny of the Killing Joke adaptation, but like whatever let's just pretend that shit never happened) both fall into exactly what I'm talking about. They're colourful, fun, pop art Babs. Who is not 'empowered' but POWERED. She doesn't need to be empowered through victimization of women, she already is powerful.

Yvonne Craig's Batgirl in the '66 show mixed with Burnside (which really does take most of it's aesthetic from a more updated riff on that) is the character. The DCAU Batgirl of the 90s and the Bronze Age Batgirl are very similar.

I only brought up the Harley Quinn comparison because Harley is very pop art and VERY POPULAR, not because I'm a fan (I'm not). Most Batgirl merch and fan art I see is in the vein of that. So judging by that and the success of Burnside, that's what people want.

The Sherlock Holmes angle is just my own flair. I love Babs' smarts and deductive skills. She remembers things similar to how Sherlock Holmes puts puzzles together in his brain. She's idiosyncratic and bloody brilliant.

I'm not so sure if Burnside Batgirl is what most people wants for Barbara on comics. After all, DC has stopped to use Burnside Batgirl (and the floppies don't sell so good).

I think Burnside Batgirl is more popular outside comics, because you can put a younger version of Barbara.


In my opinion, a problem of Batgirl identity for Barbara is that they always try to focus on the young hero aspect. However, I'm not sure Barbara could fit the young hero aspect anymore.

Honestly, I liked Barbara as Oracle because she was mature and experienced. When the New52 was announced, I expected she will mantain this maturity even as Batgirl. However, when she got back to Batgirl, they seem to want to take her into a youthful and inexperienced role (this also apply to Gail Simone's run of Batgirl, Burnside Batgirl only takes this to another level).

[Bikkun]

I'm not so sure if Burnside Batgirl is what most people wants for Barbara on comics. After all, DC has stopped to use Burnside Batgirl (and the floppies don't seel so good).

I think Burnside Batgirl is more popular outside comics, because you can put a younger version of Barbara.


In my opinion, a problem of Batgirl identity for Barbara is that they always try to focus the young hero aspect. However, I'm not sure Barbara could fit the young hero aspect anymore.

Honestly, I liked Barbara as Oracle because she was mature and experienced. When the New52 was announced, I expected she will mantain this maturity even as Batgirl. However, when she got back to Batgirl, they seem to want to take her into a youthful and inexperienced role (this also apply to Gail Simone's run of Batgirl, Burnside Batgirl only takes this to another level).

A criticism I've both had and heard about Burnside is that it's more fitting for Stephanie or even a new character. Barbara was drawn to look young even for a college student. Even outside the book, like Rebirth Birds of Prey where her history as Oracle was re-established (at least to where she and Dinah were the original Birds of Prey), she looked like a 16 year old when she put on the mask. And the timeline in her narration established years of her being crippled and then a long time for her to recover, on top of whatever time she was originally Batgirl.

The Bursnside design was probably one of the most jarring clashes of New 52 "they've only been around for a couple of years" and Rebirth "the age of heroes has been over a decade".

[kjn]

But most of her main character focus and development happened in Batfamily titles.

Oracle's main title was Birds of Prey, and I'm not sure you can call that a Bat title. DC has made it into one now, but at that time? It was an international spying-and-heisting title more than it was a Bat title.

As Oracle, I'd say that Babs was still connected to the Bat family, but had managed to escape its clutches. She was both a part of Gotham and of the wider DC universe in a way that no other Bat character but Batman is able to do.

[Konja7]

Oracle's main title was Birds of Prey, and I'm not sure you can call that a Bat title. DC has made it into one now, but at that time? It was an international spying-and-heisting title more than it was a Bat title.

As Oracle, I'd say that Babs was still connected to the Bat family, but had managed to escape its clutches. She was both a part of Gotham and of the wider DC universe in a way that no other Bat character but Batman is able to do.

If I'm not mistaken, Birds of Prey was part of Batman editorial from the beginning too. I think Birds of Prey was still consideres a Bat title.

[Frontier]

If I'm not mistaken, Birds of Prey was part of Batman editorial from the beginning too. I think Birds of Prey was still consideres a Bat title.

Yeah, it's always felt like a Bat-title to me. And she was still appearing pretty frequently in other Bat-family titles alongside it.

[TheCape]

Yeah, it's always felt like a Bat-title to me. And she was still appearing pretty frequently in other Bat-family titles alongside it.

Not mentioning that Dixon was writing it for the first 3 years of life (pluss all the minis and one-shots before the proper ongoing).

[Godlike13]

BoP was absolutely a Bat line book, and part of Dixon’s Bat family expansion. It tied into all the Bat events and was almost a sister title with Nightwing.

[Digifiend]

Two out of three (Oracle and Huntress) were Bat characters. Black Canary being the outlier.

[kjn]

If I'm not mistaken, Birds of Prey was part of Batman editorial from the beginning too. I think Birds of Prey was still consideres a Bat title.

I don't doubt that it fell under the Batman editorial line, but it was not necessarily was I was thinking about. I was more thinking about the topics it focused on, the milieus it used, and its "feel".

[Frontier]

I don't doubt that it fell under the Batman editorial line, but it was not necessarily was I was thinking about. I was more thinking about the topics it focused on, the milieus it used, and its "feel".

I think it was similar to some degree to the Catwoman book going on at the same time which was mostly Selina globe-trotting or going on adventures rather than just pulling heists in Gotham.

[Flash Gordon]

I'm not so sure if Burnside Batgirl is what most people wants for Barbara on comics. After all, DC has stopped to use Burnside Batgirl (and the floppies don't sell so good).

I think Burnside Batgirl is more popular outside comics, because you can put a younger version of Barbara.


In my opinion, a problem of Batgirl identity for Barbara is that they always try to focus on the young hero aspect. However, I'm not sure Barbara could fit the young hero aspect anymore.

Honestly, I liked Barbara as Oracle because she was mature and experienced. When the New52 was announced, I expected she will mantain this maturity even as Batgirl. However, when she got back to Batgirl, they seem to want to take her into a youthful and inexperienced role (this also apply to Gail Simone's run of Batgirl, Burnside Batgirl only takes this to another level).

The floppy sales don't really matter a whole lot. TPBs of Burnside sold well and it was a commercial success.

Aesthetics of Burnside aside (which are changeable I'd say) the tone and general narrative of that title at that time is a solid hook for the character. Beyond Burnside was fun, everything all the way up to, and including, the current issue has been great.

[Flash Gordon]

Oracle did more than just be an information broker though. It's belittling what she was doing by saying it was just a "part time gig" or could be reduced as such.

It's not belittling, it's changing with the times man. We're pretty far away from 1994 now. Technology is stunningly different. The role of 'Oracle' could just be a small facet of what Babs does in a day, she needn't be tech and moral support constantly.

[Konja7]

The floppy sales don't really matter a whole lot. TPBs of Burnside sold well and it was a commercial success.

Aesthetics of Burnside aside, the tone and general narrative of that title at that time is a solid hook for the character.

However, DC stop to use Batgirl Burnside and the tone in comics (they don't even use it for DC Ink, where it would fit perfectly). So, I don't think it was so profitable for DC at the end.

As I said, I think it is a popular tone and narrative outside comics (where Barbara could be younger), but I don't think it fits in DCU or DC will return to that with Barbara.

[Digifiend]

And the Burnside era is now tarnished because of one of the writers being disgraced. They're going to want to bury that ASAP.
https://www.cbr.com/cameron-stewart-...al-misconduct/