Barbara Gordon: Batgirl, Oracle Appreciation 2020

[kjn]

Attachment 99783
Here is a image of what I wrote, I don't have an image of what the other person said about me being an ableist because she/he blocked me so I can't see their reply anymore. But you can clearly see I did not say anything bad against someone with a disability!
I also blocked out their twitter account name for their privacy.

You did say "what a shame" about Babs appearing as Oracle, that is you were inserting yourself into a conversation by being a killjoy against a person who probably like and appreciate Oracle. And who might has faced a lot of pushbacks and microaggressions over that, and possibly also over their own person.

So, no, I'm not going to judge that person for blocking you.

Also, there are ableist tendencies in how Oracle is received and seen here as well. To some degree I get it, because it's really easy to fall into these ableist phrases and expressions by default, and superhero comics are built on the idea of hyper-idealised and flawless bodies. I'm not sure I'm the best person to unpack this, but I'm going to go back to two posts made a while back, by you and Flash Gordon.

Sure, but Batgirl as a woman has to be the one who never gets to recover? She has no agency over her own body, she's brutalized and crippled so that male characters can have their moment- and that's it.

Batman was broken and got better, why can't Batgirl? It's inherently misogynistic. Hell, Dick Grayson got shot in the head recently and he's fine. Only Batgirl has to have her narrative be forever indebted to a dated story that even the writer himself doesn't care for.

Totally agree, why can the male characters heal and get better from broken backs, death, shot to the head and so much more. But Barbara has to remain crippled?
It makes no sense and she should be out fighting as Batgirl.
I don't see why she can't be Oracle in some missions and Batgirl in other missions?
Why does she have to be crippled again after finally being healed?
It took far too many years for her to be healed.
I don't think Batman fans would be happy if Bruce stayed crippled for all the years Babs did.
I HOPE DC use their brains and keep everyone happy and let Babs do both, she can be Oracle and Batgirl.

Of course there is misogyny in how DC treated Babs in TKJ. It is one of the classic examples of fridging that Moore wrote, with DC's blessings.

But Oracle took that ugly and brutal story and turned it around. The "recovery" in popular culture is far too often a magical restoration to an earlier status quo, which is the opposite of recovery in the real world, which often is drawn-out, changing, and implies arriving at a different result than the earlier state. Ostrander and Yale took DC's misogyny and the natural ableism of superhero comics, and held it up for everyone to see.

Is it misogyny that Babs remains in the wheelchair while Batman gets a magical recovery? Perhaps. But so is it misogyny that Babs was brutalised on camera, while DC gets to pretend it didn't really matter, while returning to it every now and then. One case is structural, the other is individual and shining a light on the ugliness of the first.

To that we can add that Oracle was really the first disabled superhero where their disability mattered or where it didn't drive their superpowers. That made her a powerful figure for many disabled people.

Of course anyone can say that they prefer Babs over Cass or Steph as Batgirl, or that they love Babs as Batgirl. No-one is stopping or denying that. But the story of Oracle is Babs's most powerful story, both in and of itself, what it says about DC, and what it says about our culture.

There is another complicating factor here, and that is the very name of "Batgirl". It implies youth and inexperience. But the role of Oracle, or any other true post-TKJ recovery arc, is the very opposite of that. Dick Grayson was given the chance to grow up as Nightwing, but by forcing Babs to remain as Batgirl she is continually denied her adulthood.

[sorboares]

You did say "what a shame" about Babs appearing as Oracle, that is you were inserting yourself into a conversation by being a killjoy against a person who probably like and appreciate Oracle. And who might has faced a lot of pushbacks and microaggressions over that, and possibly also over their own person.

So, no, I'm not going to judge that person for blocking you.

Also, there are ableist tendencies in how Oracle is received and seen here as well. To some degree I get it, because it's really easy to fall into these ableist phrases and expressions by default, and superhero comics are built on the idea of hyper-idealised and flawless bodies. I'm not sure I'm the best person to unpack this, but I'm going to go back to two posts made a while back, by you and Flash Gordon.





Of course there is misogyny in how DC treated Babs in TKJ. It is one of the classic examples of fridging that Moore wrote, with DC's blessings.

But Oracle took that ugly and brutal story and turned it around. The "recovery" in popular culture is far too often a magical restoration to an earlier status quo, which is the opposite of recovery in the real world, which often is drawn-out, changing, and implies arriving at a different result than the earlier state. Ostrander and Yale took DC's misogyny and the natural ableism of superhero comics, and held it up for everyone to see.

Is it misogyny that Babs remains in the wheelchair while Batman gets a magical recovery? Perhaps. But so is it misogyny that Babs was brutalised on camera, while DC gets to pretend it didn't really matter, while returning to it every now and then. One case is structural, the other is individual and shining a light on the ugliness of the first.

To that we can add that Oracle was really the first disabled superhero where their disability mattered or where it didn't drive their superpowers. That made her a powerful figure for many disabled people.

Of course anyone can say that they prefer Babs over Cass or Steph as Batgirl, or that they love Babs as Batgirl. No-one is stopping or denying that. But the story of Oracle is Babs's most powerful story, both in and of itself, what it says about DC, and what it says about our culture.

There is another complicating factor here, and that is the very name of "Batgirl". It implies youth and inexperience. But the role of Oracle, or any other true post-TKJ recovery arc, is the very opposite of that. Dick Grayson was given the chance to grow up as Nightwing, but by forcing Babs to remain as Batgirl she is continually denied her adulthood.

Wow I think we will just need to agree to disagree.

Once again I am not an ableist, I am NOT a killjoy, all I did was express what I was hoping for and that was all.

We are all allowed to have our own opinions and to favour a certain version of a fictional (not real) character.

We should not have to be labelled, blocked or as I see it, bullied because we prefer one character over another.

Also just to make it clear, I enjoy Babs as Oracle in certain comics,video games and in the TV series.

I just prefer her as Batgirl.

[Frontier]

Unlike a lot of "girl" characters Babs was actually a fully-fledged woman as Batgirl. It was only retroactively that she started getting younger and younger when she first put on the costume.

[Konja7]

You did say "what a shame" about Babs appearing as Oracle, that is you were inserting yourself into a conversation by being a killjoy against a person who probably like and appreciate Oracle. And who might has faced a lot of pushbacks and microaggressions over that, and possibly also over their own person.

So, no, I'm not going to judge that person for blocking you.

Also, there are ableist tendencies in how Oracle is received and seen here as well. To some degree I get it, because it's really easy to fall into these ableist phrases and expressions by default, and superhero comics are built on the idea of hyper-idealised and flawless bodies. I'm not sure I'm the best person to unpack this, but I'm going to go back to two posts made a while back, by you and Flash Gordon.





Of course there is misogyny in how DC treated Babs in TKJ. It is one of the classic examples of fridging that Moore wrote, with DC's blessings.

But Oracle took that ugly and brutal story and turned it around. The "recovery" in popular culture is far too often a magical restoration to an earlier status quo, which is the opposite of recovery in the real world, which often is drawn-out, changing, and implies arriving at a different result than the earlier state. Ostrander and Yale took DC's misogyny and the natural ableism of superhero comics, and held it up for everyone to see.

Is it misogyny that Babs remains in the wheelchair while Batman gets a magical recovery? Perhaps. But so is it misogyny that Babs was brutalised on camera, while DC gets to pretend it didn't really matter, while returning to it every now and then. One case is structural, the other is individual and shining a light on the ugliness of the first.

To that we can add that Oracle was really the first disabled superhero where their disability mattered or where it didn't drive their superpowers. That made her a powerful figure for many disabled people.

Of course anyone can say that they prefer Babs over Cass or Steph as Batgirl, or that they love Babs as Batgirl. No-one is stopping or denying that. But the story of Oracle is Babs's most powerful story, both in and of itself, what it says about DC, and what it says about our culture.

There is another complicating factor here, and that is the very name of "Batgirl". It implies youth and inexperience. But the role of Oracle, or any other true post-TKJ recovery arc, is the very opposite of that. Dick Grayson was given the chance to grow up as Nightwing, but by forcing Babs to remain as Batgirl she is continually denied her adulthood.

I agree that it could be rude to mention how it is shame she isn't Batgirl in a conversation that happily announced Oracle's appearance, but I don't think you could accuse people of ableism for that.

Honestly, I don't like that Barbara has to be the representative of the frigging DC has made. I don't think it is convenient for Barbara as a character (after all, she can't have a solo as Oracle).

Don't misunderstand me, I agree Barbara is denied adulthood in that role (that's why I don't really like Barbara as Batgirl anymore).

[Konja7]

Unlike a lot of "girl" characters Babs was actually a fully-fledged woman as Batgirl. It was only retroactively that she started getting younger and younger when she first put on the costume.

Yeah. However, it is pretty difficult to separate Batgirl from youth now.

That's why stories like Batgirl Burnside that will fit better if she was less than 20 could happen with current Barbara (instead of a younger version).

If DC believe Barbara as Batgirl is a full-fleged, she would mantain the maturity and experience she has as Oracle (I expected that in New52, but I was wrong).

[kjn]

Honestly, I don't like that Barbara has to be the representative of the frigging DC has made. I don't think it is convenient for Barbara as a character (after all, she can't have a solo as Oracle).

Who says Babs can't have a solo as Oracle? I think we just had a well-received OGN with Babs as Oracle.

Also, my impression is that TKJ has become more important in DC's presentation of Babs since her return as Batgirl. As Oracle, the wheelchair was a constant reminder that TKJ was in her past, but it largely stayed in her past, and the recovery from the events there was her most important moment. As Batgirl, all we get is constant returns to TKJ, and with it the implication that TKJ was Babs's most important moment.

[Konja7]

Who says Babs can't have a solo as Oracle? I think we just had a well-received OGN with Babs as Oracle.

Also, my impression is that TKJ has become more important in DC's presentation of Babs since her return as Batgirl. As Oracle, the wheelchair was a constant reminder that TKJ was in her past, but it largely stayed in her past, and the recovery from the events there was her most important moment. As Batgirl, all we get is constant returns to TKJ, and with it the implication that TKJ was Babs's most important moment.

Oracle could be protagonist in OGNs, I hope there are more for her in the future. Although I would prefer that her disability was not a main focus in future stories with Oracle as that also limits the type of story that can be told.

However, I really doubt Oracle could have a solo in monthly floppies. That's why I mean.

To be fair, I'm not so sure Barbara as Batgirl could mantain a solo in a monthly floppy anymore either.

[Frontier]

I mean, as far as I'm concerned Birds of Prey is as close as you can get to an Oracle comic.

[Godlike13]

That stars Harley Quinn...

[Tsukiakari1203]

That stars Harley Quinn...

ugh, i hate how Harley's replacing Babs in BoP. I've retreated to the 2003 show that had a fantastic Oracle

[Agent Z]

Oracle could be protagonist in OGNs, I hope there are more for her in the future. Although I would prefer that her disability was not a main focus in future stories with Oracle as that also limits the type of story that can be told.

However, I really doubt Oracle could have a solo in monthly floppies. That's why I mean.

To be fair, I'm not so sure Barbara as Batgirl could mantain a solo in a monthly floppy anymore either.

Floppies may not be the way of the future judging by how things are right now.

[Restingvoice]

Did they ever mention where Babs got his library science degree?

[Frontier]

Did they ever mention where Babs got his library science degree?

...Gotham University, I guess ?

[Tsukiakari1203]

...Gotham University, I guess ?

I believe it was Gotham University she went

[Restingvoice]

Got it. "Barbara Gordon graduated summa cum laude with a Ph.D at Gotham State University."
I don't know if this is the library science or not, but I'll take it.
They really need to stop having so many wiki, but comics themselves have different version of characters so I guess they have to.