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  1. #796
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rac7d* View Post
    Babs was very much a grown woman when Jason becomes Robin, we know this becuase dick is also an adult
    Them getting together is the same as Bruce and babs just odd
    Far more odd, because he was a child when they met and she was a fully grown woman in her mid-20s.
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  2. #797
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Far more odd, because he was a child when they met and she was a fully grown woman in her mid-20s.
    To be fair, Dick was also pretty young when Barbara appeared (in her mid-20s), right?

  3. #798
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    To be fair, Dick was also pretty young when Barbara appeared (in her mid-20s), right?
    Is there anything fair
    I’m having her romantically involved with an entire family?

  4. #799
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    To be fair, Dick was also pretty young when Barbara appeared (in her mid-20s), right?
    Different continuity
    In the Bronze Age the age are Babs 25 Dick 18 Jason 12
    In later Post Crisis (Year One era) Babs in high school when Dick's 13, then when Dick was in college and up, Jason's 12

    In New 52 Dick was only Robin for 2 years, starting at 16 and Babs is the same age, while Jason start as Robin as mid-teens (we're guessing 16 as well)
    In Rebirth there are no official dates, we just have Dick adopted as a kid, Robin at 16, meeting Batgirl Babs who's the same age around that age, then Jason met Bruce as a teenager

  5. #800
    Mighty Member KrustyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sorboares View Post
    I just saw what everyone is upset about in Three Jokers issue 2 and sorry but to be honest it doesn't really bother me.

    spoilers:
    I don't really see a problem with Babs and Jason hooking up or having sex or whatever it is they are doing. Does it really matter? Clearly Dick and Babs are not together, they have not been together in so very long. Yes I like Dick & Babs as a couple but they seem to have gone their separate ways, so I don't think it's a bad thing that her and Jason are connecting. Dick is in Bludhaven, away and most likely dating who knows who? So what is the problem with Babs moving on and getting with Jason or whom ever she wants?
    end of spoilers

    I don't think it should stop people from reading Three Jokers and loving it. I love it so far as they respect Batgirl and take her seriously and she is treated better in this book so far than her own comic book series.
    Kind of how I feel on the matter. It doesn't really bother me, even if a little suspect Jason and Dick aren't even that close, not how Grayson is with Damian and Tim at least. I'll take this 10x over Bruce/Babs.

    On another note, never did view the Babs/Dick romantic link on the same level as; Bruce/Selina, or even Tim/Steph, largely due to their relationship in that regard not sustaining for long(mainly due to the both of them having their own series and adventures to follow), and also Dick having a large romantic link with Starfire takes away from it as well.

    I also don't agree with the whole notion of 'Babs being passed around'. In regards to Bruce and especially Tim(if we can really call Arkham Tim.. you know, Tim), her romantic link with those two were at least non cannon, Babs/Tim only happened in the game because of the whole Batgirl/Robin angle, feel confident in saying that. Neither really have any barring on what we're seeing now in the story. Luke really isn't close with the robins, so again, I see no problem with him and Babs.

  6. #801
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Saw that elsewhere too. How is this not worse than Bruce/Babs?
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  7. #802
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Can we just have Babs be single for at least a whole year?

  8. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Saw that elsewhere too. How is this not worse than Bruce/Babs?
    I guess it depends on the continuity.

    In the current continuity, Barbara is likely (at most) 2 or 3 years older than Jason.

    Barbara and Jason have never have a mentor-student relationship.

    So, it is less uncomfortable that Bruce/Barbara.

  9. #804
    Astonishing Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Saw that elsewhere too. How is this not worse than Bruce/Babs?
    Worse by what standard?

    From a moral standpoint, most criticism I've seen against Bruce and Barbara other than the connection between Bruce and Dick is, (which is the same familial connection weighing down upon all the bat/batgirl ships anyway)
    number 1. the unique aspect of Bruce being seen as Babs mentor
    number 2. being old enough to be her father in most continuities
    AND number 3. the fact that she is the daughter of his long time friend, Gordon

    Even with all that aside, and if the standard we are valuing the relationship is not based on any moral standpoint. From a writing standpoint, the ship has previously failed Babs as a character.

    I see the term thrown around a lot of Babs being 'always reduced to being the love interest', and I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I understand what people are trying to say, or the point they are wanting to get across, but it's not a technically true statement. Love interest, by definition is a character whose main role is to be the lover of a central character. Implying that in all these relationships, she isn't the central or main character, or that she exists only for the male characters benefit/story, which isn't the case. In most of the bat relationships with Babs, it's either a neutral built relationship, where neither party exists to simply serve the others story, or it's the male counterpart that serves her story and becomes her 'love interest'.

    All but one that is, out of all the relationships with the Bats, Bruce and Babs is the only one where Barbara took on the role as the 'love interest'. In the animated Killing Joke, her character became hyper focused on Bruce, becoming a detriment to her own story, the relationship between them is added to ensure more man pain for Bruce, so that it wasn't just an ally that was hurt, but also a lover. Her central role in the story was being Bruces love interest. From a writing standpoint, that is why it is the worst.
    Last edited by RedBird; 09-25-2020 at 01:23 PM.

  10. #805
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I can't wait until we start shipping her with Damian .

  11. #806
    Astonishing Member RedBird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I can't wait until we start shipping her with Damian .
    Please don't tempt DC like that. Say sike.

  12. #807
    Mighty Member KrustyKid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Saw that elsewhere too. How is this not worse than Bruce/Babs?
    Bruce's relationship with Jim and Dick, makes the whole fling with Babs/Bruce much more of a head scratcher. It's just.. uehhhh. Jason and Barbara is far preferable

  13. #808
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    I personally think its weirder in the same meta sense that makes people scrutinize Bruce for replacing Dick as Robin with a spitting image of his boyhood self in Jason Todd.

    But yeah I guess I'll see how it plays out
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  14. #809
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I can't wait until we start shipping her with Damian .
    Lol, i was thinking the same
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

  15. #810
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedBird View Post
    Worse by what standard?

    From a moral standpoint, most criticism I've seen against Bruce and Barbara other than the connection between Bruce and Dick is, (which is the same familial connection weighing down upon all the bat/batgirl ships anyway)
    number 1. the unique aspect of Bruce being seen as Babs mentor
    number 2. being old enough to be her father in most continuities
    AND number 3. the fact that she is the daughter of his long time friend, Gordon

    Even with all that aside, and if the standard we are valuing the relationship is not based on any moral standpoint. From a writing standpoint, the ship has previously failed Babs as a character.

    I see the term thrown around a lot of Babs being 'always reduced to being the love interest', and I'm not trying to be obtuse here, I understand what people are trying to say, or the point they are wanting to get across, but it's not a technically true statement. Love interest, by definition is a character whose main role is to be the lover of a central character. Implying that in all these relationships, she isn't the central or main character, or that she exists only for the male characters benefit/story, which isn't the case. In most of the bat relationships with Babs, it's either a neutral built relationship, where neither party exists to simply serve the others story, or it's the male counterpart that serves her story and becomes her 'love interest'.

    All but one that is, out of all the relationships with the Bats, Bruce and Babs is the only one where Barbara took on the role as the 'love interest'. In the animated Killing Joke, her character became hyper focused on Bruce, becoming a detriment to her own story, the relationship between them is added to ensure more man pain for Bruce, so that it wasn't just an ally that was hurt, but also a lover. Her central role in the story was being Bruces love interest. From a writing standpoint, that is why it is the worst.
    Pretty good analysis, also is good to see you Redbird, it has been a while.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
    Wolverine, Venom Annual # 1 (2018)
    Nobody does it better by Jeff Loveness

    "I am Thou, Thou Art I"
    Persona

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