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  1. #136
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    It looks like she'd ask the same question if they were all women or all men or anything else. It's probably best not to read anything into it other than a strange attempt at humor.

  2. #137
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Illyana was depicted as having a crush on Sunspot back in the 80s. Plus it's possible to read her interactions with Doug during the Claremont run in a romantic light considering how overprotective of him she seemed before Simonson took over. I've thought for a long time that Simonson's entire run would have made a lot more sense in and of itself and been more consistent with Claremont's run if she made Illyana the one who liked Doug instead of Rahne.
    Agreed. Especially with her savage reaction to Doug's death.

  3. #138
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    It looks like she'd ask the same question if they were all women or all men or anything else. It's probably best not to read anything into it other than a strange attempt at humor.
    Runs in the blood.

    Last edited by mugiwara; 01-09-2020 at 06:28 AM.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  4. #139
    spit and hades! Andru's Avatar
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    I should have never opened my mouth

    I think there was some confusion with my initial post on the issues I had...I never thought Illyana would actually "makeout" or "f#@%" any of the aliens if they agreed to her proposition. I am well aware it was banter to unsettle/intimidate her opponents. However, I do believe it is out of character for her to joke about sex.

    I understand this is not a big deal for people or just chalk it up to her being "edgy". However, I have to stick by my interpretation of her over the years, and I cannot put aside the fact she has never mentioned anything about sexual relations. Has she found Sunspot attractive? Was she curious about what Nightcrawler looked like naked? Sure! But that is as far as it has ever gone.

    Personally I do not buy into her being interested in Roberto or Doug. I interpreted her comments to Roberto as "this is someone who has not trusted me, and frankly, has been kind of mean to me, but his actions in this scenario seem to indicate he actually does care and considers me part of his team/family".

    In terms of Doug, "I'm the strongest on the team and feel like I need to protect this poor kid whose power is useless in a fight. I failed him and it cost his life".

    However, I totally support those who think otherwise and believe she did have attraction towards them. The same as those who are in the Illyana & Kitty/Rachel camp. Or those who believe she is asexual. Because her history is so open to interpretation, any of these could work.

    I am totally interested in other's interpretations and why. That is why we are all here! What I am not interested in are one sentence dismissals

  5. #140
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    I guess what’s confusing is there’s no real reason why sex would be a taboo topic to someone raised in hell. Considering everything she’s seen and done, using sex jokes to unsettle really isn’t beyond the pale. This is a woman who manipulated the people she loved best in a universe-threatening bid to murder gods. She’s a demon witch and a master manipulator. I can’t imagine there’s much she wouldn’t say to achieve her goals. There are no snowflakes in hell, after all.

  6. #141
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andru View Post
    I should have never opened my mouth

    I think there was some confusion with my initial post on the issues I had...I never thought Illyana would actually "makeout" or "f#@%" any of the aliens if they agreed to her proposition. I am well aware it was banter to unsettle/intimidate her opponents. However, I do believe it is out of character for her to joke about sex.

    I understand this is not a big deal for people or just chalk it up to her being "edgy". However, I have to stick by my interpretation of her over the years, and I cannot put aside the fact she has never mentioned anything about sexual relations. Has she found Sunspot attractive? Was she curious about what Nightcrawler looked like naked? Sure! But that is as far as it has ever gone.

    Personally I do not buy into her being interested in Roberto or Doug. I interpreted her comments to Roberto as "this is someone who has not trusted me, and frankly, has been kind of mean to me, but his actions in this scenario seem to indicate he actually does care and considers me part of his team/family".

    In terms of Doug, "I'm the strongest on the team and feel like I need to protect this poor kid whose power is useless in a fight. I failed him and it cost his life".

    However, I totally support those who think otherwise and believe she did have attraction towards them. The same as those who are in the Illyana & Kitty/Rachel camp. Or those who believe she is asexual. Because her history is so open to interpretation, any of these could work.

    I am totally interested in other's interpretations and why. That is why we are all here! What I am not interested in are one sentence dismissals
    Andru you're terrific.
    I share your sentiment about her comment to Roberto. I didn't interpret her dialogue as interest in Roberto in that moment -- to me it was more about how she was the outsider of the group, the one people were suspicious of, concerned about, scared of -- and in that moment when Roberto helped her, it meant something to her that he would do that given the circumstances and the presumptions already established about her nature.

    I agree with sunofdarkchild that it would have made sense during Simonson's run to reveal Yana having harbored feelings for Doug, and of course my own personal bias definitely skews my interpretation of any and all interactions they have because I want my precious babies to find love and I think they'd be so utterly adorable, flipping the usual dynamic of masculine vs feminine and weak vs strong and all that, buuuuuuuuuut I don't believe that's ever happening as much as I'd adore it. I'm pretty certain that your assessment is correct in that she looked at Doug more like a child or a puppy back when.

  7. #142
    Incredible Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    I'm also in agreement on all points, Andru.

    For this issue, I think it 100% was Hickman trying to be funny in a comedy book and forgetting that it was a bit off character. Especially with the last frame of the page, it's obvious she was just trying to do her job in the most Krakoan-ly diplomatic way. "I'm here to fight, but since I'm the one with the responsibility here, first let's go over the ground rules in my own dark way" type of thing.

    For Doug and Bobby, I absolutely always have read her relationship towards them the same way as you, even as a teenager reading the books as they were published. Your Doug opinion especially was always the pretty obvious take for me.

    I'm in the "she's asexual" camp as well, but that shouldn't be a shock to any of you. She knows the power of sex and danger of love, but hasn't found a reason or necessity to seek that herself. Honestly, I'd be a-ok if she never does. If they HAD to cross that like, I guess I'd feel most comfortable with Kitty. But they've done so much to build up these walls for her that it's the only reason why it would make sense to me. Her waking up next to some rando space pirate would make ZERO sense to any of us, and would certainly make more people flip out (in a bad way) that what they've done here in trying to crack jokes.

  8. #143
    spit and hades! Andru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Quiet Councilor View Post
    I guess what’s confusing is there’s no real reason why sex would be a taboo topic to someone raised in hell. Considering everything she’s seen and done, using sex jokes to unsettle really isn’t beyond the pale. This is a woman who manipulated the people she loved best in a universe-threatening bid to murder gods. She’s a demon witch and a master manipulator. I can’t imagine there’s much she wouldn’t say to achieve her goals. There are no snowflakes in hell, after all.
    She was physically & possibly sexually abused during her time in Limbo...at least while "under the care" of S'ym. While I don't believe she would find the subject of sex taboo, she certainly doesn't seem to have any connection to it. So for her to toss a statement like that out there so casually, doesn't make sense to me.

  9. #144
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    There's no direct evidence she was sexually abused in Limbo. All of the abuse we see or hear about is either physical or emotional.

    For me it's pretty obvious she was at least attracted to Roberto since she thought about him as attractive multiple times. People can lie when they open their mouths all the time, but thought bubbles and boxes are supposed to be what a person is really thinking at the time.

    I seriously doubt Hickman put half as much thought into that joke as we've been expending on it.

  10. #145
    spit and hades! Andru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    There's no direct evidence she was sexually abused in Limbo. All of the abuse we see or hear about is either physical or emotional.

    For me it's pretty obvious she was at least attracted to Roberto since she thought about him as attractive multiple times. People can lie when they open their mouths all the time, but thought bubbles and boxes are supposed to be what a person is really thinking at the time.

    I seriously doubt Hickman put half as much thought into that joke as we've been expending on it.
    That is the absolute truth! haha

  11. #146
    Incredible Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    There's no direct evidence she was sexually abused in Limbo. All of the abuse we see or hear about is either physical or emotional.

    I seriously doubt Hickman put half as much thought into that joke as we've been expending on it.
    Agreed on both counts. It's easy to connect the dots in either case though to confirm whatever it is you want to think, so I don't blame people for thinking a certain way. But it's a fine before you go from reasonable assumption in a writer's aims to a wild headcannon that can influence someone's full on character development.

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andru View Post
    She was physically & possibly sexually abused during her time in Limbo...at least while "under the care" of S'ym. While I don't believe she would find the subject of sex taboo, she certainly doesn't seem to have any connection to it. So for her to toss a statement like that out there so casually, doesn't make sense to me.
    I can respect and appreciate that take. I agree that sexual abuse can certainly be extrapolated from her backstory, but I’m not sure I buy that would prevent her from using the topic of sex to unsettle people. Is it a reason for her to have intimacy issues? Absolutely. Actual intimacy and feigning an interest in intimacy are very different, though. I’d also throw out that Hickman’s take is a bit of a departure and seems particularly dialed up for the sake of comedy since this is turning out to be the most comedic book of the line.

    Anyway, I appreciate your affection for and understanding of the character, so I apologize for my earlier dismissiveness.

  13. #148
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    I seriously doubt Hickman put half as much thought into that joke as we've been expending on it.
    Hickman gave that line to one of the X-Women who fans have constantly said should be revealed as lesbian or at least sapphic in some capacity. Of all the things he’s done, y’all seriously think he didn’t account for how this would be read??

  14. #149
    Incredible Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    Great points QC. I think in the end we're all just people who have grown to adore and perhaps personally identify with these characters. Frankly I'm glad we're having THIS kind of conversation rather than what Rahne fans had to deal with last year.

  15. #150
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    Illyana took charge based on her authority as a captain. Her plan was actually a good one. Send the bulk of her forces to deal with the obvious boarding team while going herself to deal with the secret boarding team, making it look like they had fallen for the enemy's trick. And because she's a beast she could handle the whole boarding team herself. At the same time she kept a team to guard Deathbird.

    I wonder if Mondo and Chmber would have disobeyed if they knew it was Magik giving the order, since it was Karma who contacted them and not the Captain.

    Since none of the New Mutants are seen among the space debris I assume Mondo and Chamber are the only ones from the mutants who were spaced and the rest are still relatively 'safe' in parts of the ship that weren't blown up.

    And, as I said before, Illyana so outclassed her opponents there was no need for the fight to even be shown on panel. She says 'now we're talking' and the next panel is their heartbeat monitors flatlining.'

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