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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkling View Post
    Yeah in the Ghost Rider series , there is a war between hells is coming to claim the throne of Mephisto that now belongs to Johnny Blaze . Honestly Illyana should be involved in this. And Beslasco transformed Danny in a Rider of Limbo, also looks like Azazel dimension will be part of this too.
    Belasco being back and in control of Limbo with no explanation is really bad even before considering that it undoes one of Illyana's big accomplishments.

  2. #182
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Belasco being back and in control of Limbo with no explanation is really bad even before considering that it undoes one of Illyana's big accomplishments.
    I really can't figure out why Brisson would screw up on this big development. Hope future writers ignore it

  3. #183
    Mighty Member sungila's Avatar
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    There are infinite ways to read into what I mean...not of which are what I mean...you know what I mean?

    I mean, you have more of the meaning in this line than I do...so...um...if you don't 'read into' this...I'm not sure it's even here...or any...meaning...

    Please don't be mean to anybody's meaning...please read into lines...because pencils fade without inks...and without the pencils the inks would have no place to be...thank you
    “The reason of the unreasonableness which against my reason is wrought, doth so weaken my reason, as with all reason I do justly complain on your beauty.”
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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    I really can't figure out why Brisson would screw up on this big development. Hope future writers ignore it
    I didnt notice that this was from Brisson, then maybe this events will be adressed in New Mutants. Maybe a fast line saying that illyana lost her conection to the limbo after her ressurection or after going to the space, Limbo is an Earth Hellish dimension after all. Also that would explain why the teleportation powers of Magik are weaker than before and cant cross all the galaxy by herself.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Belasco being back and in control of Limbo with no explanation is really bad even before considering that it undoes one of Illyana's big accomplishments.
    I wonder if this involves our last sight of Darkchilde before the whole HoX/PoX thing, when Illyana 2.0 went full-demon while curbstomping O.N.E. and Juggernaut in UXM (2018) #21. She was noticibly AWOL during HoX/PoX, although the Surfboard SoulSword was prominently held by Rasputin of X^2

    I had a sure and certain memory that Illyana killed Belasco with her SoulSword, but I just reread her return, and apparently it was Pixie who knifed Belasco with her SoulDagger, the SoulSword being elsewhere at the time

    As far as I can tell, at that point Belasco vanished in a flash of light under Darkchilde's magical assault, not as a head rolling across the floor...

    Illyana originally gained control of Limbo by not killing Belasco. Old Woman Storm did kill Belasco, and became his slave because of it. The last we saw of WitchFire, she was on her knees in chains, but not dismembered. Belasco didn't kill Amanda when taking control from her, so I wonder if there is a 'trick' involved in the Throne of Limbo that requires that non-lethal force only is to be used in the coup

    Battles between Hell Lords are strange things, and those who have at one time bonded to a Splinter Realm seem to be generally transmortal, both unaging and immune to permanent death, their Realm resurrecting them like a backup copy regardless what happens to their body at any given time

    After Illyana's original coup, Belasco stayed behind the scenes from his last appearance in Kazar until a reappearance in the Mole Man's territory in FF v1 #314, long before Inferno. Belasco made no other appearances to my knowledge until well after Inferno, in the X-Men: Black Sun miniseries, skipping over the fight for control of Limbo with Kitty, Doctor Doom, S'ym, and Darkoth in Excalibur #37-39 (Which is an important story arc regarding the SoulSword, SoulArmour, and the nature of Limbo/Otherplace)

    If Illyana 2.0s transformation into Darkchilde after Callahan pushed the button indicates something profound at the level of her soul, we might currently be following the actions of an Illyana 3.0, reconstructed without her Hell Lord rulership of Limbo. I feel as if lots of the Mutants we see lately have strongly altered powersets and personalities compared to pre HoX/PoX, especially those who have been resurrected, many of whom have memory gaps regarding their deaths (Vulcan, Black Tom, and Proteus for example)

    If our current Magik isn't full Hell Lord of Limbo, it would give Belasco a gap to claim control, like during the fights between Doom, Margali, Amanda, and many others for the SoulSword in Excalibur, the Nightcrawler miniseries etc

    Like what happened off-panel between Magik & Dormammu, whatever happened off-panel after she annihilated O.N.E. & Juggernaut is vitally important to the development of Illyana. We saw the surfboard SoulSword left on Krakoa earlier, so there's far more left unexplained in our current Magik than we actually do know. Perhaps the laws of Krakoa are etched into this copy, explaining the "F$@$ or Fight" and "Are you Human?" dialogues

    I wondered earlier about how Moira interacts with time travelers & precogs, plus a fully unleashed crosstime-traveling, telepathically-immune, Hell Lord Magik might be outside of Xavier's control. If we are currently following a nerfed knockoff Captain (rather than Empress), perhaps that explains why Magik hasn't been using intergalactic teleportation, the powers and armies of Limbo, or the SoulSurfSword
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  6. #186
    Incredible Member pandafarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0RM View Post
    If our current Magik isn't full Hell Lord of Limbo, it would give Belasco a gap to claim control, like during the fights between Doom, Margali, Amanda, and many others for the SoulSword in Excalibur, the Nightcrawler miniseries etc

    Like what happened off-panel between Magik & Dormammu, whatever happened off-panel after she annihilated O.N.E. & Juggernaut is vitally important to the development of Illyana. We saw the surfboard SoulSword left on Krakoa earlier, so there's far more left unexplained in our current Magik than we actually do know. Perhaps the laws of Krakoa are etched into this copy, explaining the "F$@$ or Fight" and "Are you Human?" dialogues
    Didn't she absorb Limbo during Bendis's run? That's more of my question. Amazing how we can all be such huge fans of a character but the storylines are so cluttered that it's still difficult to keep track.

    I too feel like this isn't the same Illyana as we last saw in Uncanny. I've always had the theory that they went to the army base she was stomping around in as Darkchilde and killed her, only to bring her back in the gootubes as a younger (perhaps more immature) "best" version of herself. I'm sure someday we'll find out.

  7. #187
    Astonishing Member Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post

    Trauma doesn't go away because years passed. There a lot of healing to do and confronting.

    This comes very OOC from the last decade of Magik portrayals
    For clarity I wasn't saying that Trama went away because time past. Obviously self betterment is part of the process.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandafarmer View Post
    Didn't she absorb Limbo during Bendis's run? That's more of my question. Amazing how we can all be such huge fans of a character but the storylines are so cluttered that it's still difficult to keep track.

    I too feel like this isn't the same Illyana as we last saw in Uncanny. I've always had the theory that they went to the army base she was stomping around in as Darkchilde and killed her, only to bring her back in the gootubes as a younger (perhaps more immature) "best" version of herself. I'm sure someday we'll find out.
    Yes, certainly, the regurgitation of Limbo wasn't something shown on-panel, just as her & Pixie's reintegration of the Bloodstones never was. For me, most of Magik's story has always been off-panel and in- Headcanon

    (See Dhalpin3's FanFiction for the kinds of things that happen between the panels. Zebb Wells also apparently developed just such a mythos in his own Headcanon bridging Illyana's deadyears, bringing back the Limbo Babies & inventing Project Purgatory for New Mutants volume 3)

    Given Secret Wars III, Magik's defeat of Dormammu & devouring of Limbo might actually have happened in one of the destroyed timelines, or when Franklin patched things back together, he might have used bits of Otherworld from other timelines that hadn't been consumed (perhaps bits of the Illyanas 'with' Leah or from Inferno were also incorporated!-)

    Certainly lots of hidden things are going on under Hickman in the new X-World, and have always happened with Magik, but the thing that was stomping around in O.N.E., teleporting victims by the hundreds, that tore out and shattered the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak...

    It didn't look to me like it could be killed; it looked to me more like a true and proper Hell Lord unmasked

    My personal preference is that Darkchilde simply slipped her little girl persona back on and joined Krakoa (possibly blurring everyone's memories so they'll continue to underestimate her), but the writers have lots of leeway to do lots of things

    Several people have mentioned the possibility that the Five will eventually resurrect someone who isn't really Dead; perhaps Magik is one of those mistakes, and at least one other version of her will pop up?

    Another element is that Magik is a crosstime-traveler...

    Other versions of her have been implicit since the original UXM v1 #160 story, and I listed several other versions that appeared during her 'dead years' on the Essential Reading Checklist at the beginning of this 2020 appreciation thread

    If nothing is preventing them from doing so, alternates of Illyana (like various timelines of Moira) could pop in anywhen, possibly ruining everyone's plans

    After all, an alternate version of Illyana unmade Age of Apocalypse, and Savage Avengers #0 will soon show her performing a "TemporalSpacial Claudication" that ended Kulan Gath's "Age Undreamed Of" from UXM v1 #191-192, which unfortunately also introduced Nimrod to the 616... Magik's existence has always had a high cost

    If this whole Krakoan thing is timeline X, but the 616 is timeline XI, perhaps Magik will again be the one to end an out-of-control timeline. After all, an Illyana was God Emperor Doom's first Black Swan, as chosen by Hickman himself
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  9. #189
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    I am trying to remember when Illyana regained her correct age. At the end of Inferno she was de-aged to a kid and left the team for quite a while, but for the life of me I cant remember when she came back and was aged back up or how it happened.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I am trying to remember when Illyana regained her correct age. At the end of Inferno she was de-aged to a kid and left the team for quite a while, but for the life of me I cant remember when she came back and was aged back up or how it happened.
    In 2007's Quest for Magik Belasco tried to bring her back but only succeeded in creating a soulless version, the Darkchild. Darkchild rebelled against Belasco and killed him, claiming Limbo again. Over the course of several years she searched for and regained most of her soul in X-Infernus and Fall/Rise of the New Mutants, effectively becoming the Illyana of old.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    I am trying to remember when Illyana regained her correct age. At the end of Inferno she was de-aged to a kid and left the team for quite a while, but for the life of me I cant remember when she came back and was aged back up or how it happened.
    On the first page of this thread I have the titles and issue numbers of those developments

    If you have Marvel Unlimited, most are available

  12. #192
    Incredible Member CellarDweller's Avatar
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    Seeing the talk of the Soulsword and the appearances of it in Excalibur, it reminds me, is Shrill still around?

    She was the witch that had an eye made out of the same soulsteel as the sword, and everytime it was drawn, it caused her extreme pain.


  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by CellarDweller View Post
    Seeing the talk of the Soulsword and the appearances of it in Excalibur, it reminds me, is Shrill still around?

    She was the witch that had an eye made out of the same soulsteel as the sword, and everytime it was drawn, it caused her extreme pain.

    Yeah; lots of stuff happened while Illyana was mostly Dead, and very little of it was resolved, like with Darkoth, Shrill, Gravemold, Margali, and Amanda

    There's also the question of what Illyana & Dr. Doom's relationship will be

    If she just knows he tried to screw over Kitty & Excalibur, wheras he remembers being God Emperor Doom with her as first Black Swan, there would be lots of mixed agendas

    (I suspect Illyana is at least unconsciously aware of cross-time events, rather like a precog, so might remember Battleworld, or be able to scry on it)
    Last edited by G0RM; 01-16-2020 at 01:33 PM.

  14. #194
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    Not sure anyone forgot she can teleport.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post


    Not sure anyone forgot she can teleport.
    I love discussions of Magik's hidden power-set!

    The video pointed out that stepping-disks always pass through Limbo, which IS often forgotten, as if she's limited to Blink-level instantaneous teleports. It mentioned they are transdimensional intergalactic crosstime-travel portals, although it didn't explain she can chop up God-Level opponents with them, like Magus and Scythian Algurus

    I just realized the whole time-travel thing is actually one of the best possible "captivities": just flash someone forward a month instead of putting them in a prison cell for that duration. I keep thinking that instead of Limbo, she should be using uninhabited planets in other galaxies a billion years from now in an alternate timeline & universe that doesn't allow superpowers for her escape-proof prison cells...

    Actually, just jumping someone ahead is simpler, since they have literally zero time in which to escape if zapped forward (like when she accidentally teleported an entire passenger airplane a week ahead during Dead Souls, or fled from Emma back in TNM v1 #15, with Dani, first a year forward, then back until just a week forward) Tempus mostly froze groups in place, but Illyana can simply pop them into the future instead...

    The video also observed that Illyana used her psionic shields more when she was less powerful... Like she's trying to handicap herself as an unarmored sword-user these days. Every rent-a-cop mercenary seems to have technological mental shields now, but Magik generally seems vulnerable-ish, although all telepaths say her mind is currently a nasty place to be. I hope at least no author has someone dominate her psychically while inside Limbo (Three Cuckoos together held Belasco about a minute while in Limbo before he shrugged off their control, just long enough for Darkchilde to enter the battle)

    While discussing astral projection, it suggested Illyana wasn't a telepath, despite her mental shields & access to the astral plane, but forgot the time she made Stevie Hunter, well, forget. I suspect Illyana uses magic to blur people's thoughts and memories about her, Captain America having met her for the first time at least three times, plus everyone always seems to forget her biggest power-feats, no one ever suggesting her using powers other than teleporting

    I had myself forgotten that Illyana had turned an entire battlegroup invisible with magic (while she was unable to teleport during the Hydra takeover of Earth). Using invisibility along with teleportation would be way abusive OP, so I'd love it if she did it at some point :-)

    The video failed to cover Magik's ability to do "TemporalSpacial Claudication", reality warping via subconsciously chosen teleports, like bringing Nimrod back in time to undo Kulan Gath, teleporting Bishop to the right time and place to stop Legion thus undoing Age of Apocalypse, or whatever she did replaying the Elder God War until achieving zero X-Men casualties (Tempus did something similar when pre-assasinating Mathew Malloy)

    It's apparently like a butterfly-effect control of time, involving cross-time precognition, choosing an outcome & tipping a balance to get what is desired

    When doing it with Dr. Strange, she and a group of others retained their memories of the alternate events, whereas with the end of Age of Apocalypse, almost no one did (that time Illyana performed it alongside Destiny, and given that they were both Dead in the alternate timeline, it's not surprising they didn't remember)
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