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  1. #706
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    On a day of national strife, I'd like to ask about a couple controversies, and how the Mutant Metaphor and Illyana as a character relates.

    There's the general question of the Mutant Metaphor, and if the Jewish, Black, Homosexual acceptance era is past, perhaps trans, intersex, poly & asexual representation is coming forward in the metaphor for further waves of mutancy/diversity metaphor, identity politics etc.

    My bigger point, was if Editorial has a policy about preventing eternal relationships in favor of strife & ArchieReggieBettyVeronica soap operas.

    I've been called twice on the 'Polycules and Orgies' not being happy marriages, so I'd like to ask again:

    Is the HoX Quiet Council officially against monogamy, asexuality, and pure homosexuality, backing instead promiscuous hetero- & bi- sexuality through 'Make More Mutants'?

    Illyana's possible homo-romantic asexual orientation appears to be 'against the rules' of HoX, and they're making a point of her being oppressed and doing passive resistance against that rule plus 'kill no human'.

    (I suppose Sinister's orientation of autosexuality & cloning which makes more of Himself & those he replicates, but is officially banned, as is Northstar's homosexual only orientation which doesn't precisely Make More Mutants. That is opposed to my clip of Raven's bi- trans- queer- other- orientation which seems embraced these days by Editorial and the Quiet Council... Actually with Sinister's tech, male male & female-female or 3+parent blends would be easy; ova fusion or IVG is close to a thing even in our reality.)


    I'll open up the discussion to any comments anyone has about the Marvel Universe as a whole: have you seen enduring happy Marvel relationships other than kinship and the Richards, whether mutant or other, sexual or not, but far beyond just 'work relationships' ?

    What about emotionally intense relationships in general?


    There's Bobby & Sam plus Cypher & Warlock. Pietro & Wanda are siblings and pretty tight, and are romantic in an alternate timeline, but other enduring & less happy would be Peter & Aunt May, whatever Charles & Magneto have, Doom & Richards, Thing & Johnny, Peter & JJJ, Scott & Wolverine, Captain America & Red Skull, Sabertooth & Wolverine, Thor & Loki in terms of emotionally passionate relationships across the decades or centuries. (Belasco remains obsessed with Illyana, but I think she's bored of him at this point, treating him like 'someone she used to know')

    Then there's the Kitty, Piotr, Illyana triangle from my previous post.

    Exactly how much is Illyana meddling with Kitty's love life, and how much did Piotr know about it?

    The line 'Make your move and stop it' coming from Piotr really boggles me; was he asking Illyana to break it up so he'd have a chance, telling Illyana to confess to Kitty, or just as Kitty's friend trying to break up KittyLord before the ceremony to prevent an even worse breakup later? Did Piotr suspect Illyana was manipulating & pulling strings in the deep background, like Fisk?

    And regarding emotional passion, Kitty had a hate-on for Emma for a long time, but seems to have shifted that to Shaw...

    What are your thoughts?
    Last edited by G0RM; 11-03-2020 at 04:48 PM.

  2. #707
    Amazing Member lunarmagik's Avatar
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    In my mind Illyana was probably just looking for an excuse to keep Kate with the x-men again instead of wandering through space.
    I also think that she "wanted" to believe that PiotrxKate would work out, but when the moment of truth(the marriage) came she realized she really didn't want it to happen and tried to stop it by telling her it wouldn't work(and admittedly PiotrexKate seemed to be a relationship very based on nostalgia for both of them)

  3. #708
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    I have had friends/acquintances who were in on/off -relationship messes, and in the end it never worked out for them. So from my point of view 'Yana was quite correct to have suspicions about their long-term potential.

  4. #709
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    Illyana strategizing with Gorgon today. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the first time they've interacted on-panel, right?

    So far she's shaping up to be the Krakoa MVP. Planning the big moves with Cyclops, identifying enemy strengths and weaknesses with Gorgon, and training Doug so that he can hopefully survive the coming fight. I don't think anyone else can claim to have done as much to secure a Krakoa victory at this point.

  5. #710
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    Quote Originally Posted by G0RM View Post
    Is the HoX Quiet Council officially against monogamy, asexuality, and pure homosexuality, backing instead promiscuous hetero- & bi- sexuality through 'Make More Mutants'?

    Illyana's possible homo-romantic asexual orientation appears to be 'against the rules' of HoX, and they're making a point of her being oppressed and doing passive resistance against that rule plus 'kill no human'.
    I must admit that the rule “Make more mutants” seems un-inclusive if it is enforced as fiercely as the other two laws. Happily, it can’t be. There are many reasons to not have children, some are choices others are not. Illyana may not have children because she is ace, a combat leader, a demon sorcerer, an abused child or just because she doesn’t want to. For others, their age, disability or mutation may make it impossible to have kids. I believe The Quiet Council wouldn’t have made it a law and I am sorry that Marvel did. “Make more mutants” is good example of bad writing.
    Quote Originally Posted by G0RM View Post
    The line 'Make your move and stop it' coming from Piotr really boggles me; was he asking Illyana to break it up so he'd have a chance, telling Illyana to confess to Kitty, or just as Kitty's friend trying to break up KittyLord before the ceremony to prevent an even worse breakup later? Did Piotr suspect Illyana was manipulating & pulling strings in the deep background, like Fisk?
    The line "Make your move and stop it" was Illyana's not Piotr's.

  6. #711
    Extraordinary Member Omega Alpha's Avatar
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    There are more ways to makes more mutants than having children. Plus, nobody is being forced to ha
    have kids.

  7. #712
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    Chapter 6, getting towards the end.

    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1369014...s-film-rewrite

    I'm not sure about the transition from Dani coming back to them all turning against Emma. On the one hand, I didn't hand to have too much repetition with the explanation for what's been going on. On the other, I feel like more might have needed for that scene. I rewrote that scene and the Limbo scene a lot to try to make them not repetitive with the exposition.

  8. #713
    Ultimate Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunofdarkchild View Post
    Chapter 6, getting towards the end.

    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1369014...s-film-rewrite

    I'm not sure about the transition from Dani coming back to them all turning against Emma. On the one hand, I didn't hand to have too much repetition with the explanation for what's been going on. On the other, I feel like more might have needed for that scene. I rewrote that scene and the Limbo scene a lot to try to make them not repetitive with the exposition.
    These edits are giving me life.

  9. #714
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    The 2 things that I most wanted to change were of course Illyana's whole character and the demon bear not being real.

    With Illyana, beyond the stupid changes to her backstory and character, they turned her into a giant plot hole by giving her the power to leave whenever she wants and yet never addressing the issue. I started with the idea that the fact that she can teleport out of there whenever she wants but is choosing not to should be embraced and not ignored, so it became a plot point that the other characters point out several times and the beginning of the 'mystery' surrounding her.

    Having the bear be a constant presence creates more tension and build-up to its final reveal and another source of mystery that distracts from the mystery of Dani's powers, which was another thing I wanted to do because that was so obvious in the actual movie. Illyana being able to sense it since they're both magic allows its presence to be felt throughout without needing to see it.

    Emma replacing Cecile started out as a way of avoiding the whitewashing controversy as well as the issue of Cecile not being a villain in the comics, but in the end I think it created more story opportunities because she's an inherently creepier character and telepathy is an inherently creepier power than making force fields, which in sci fi can just be done by machines. It also creates an inherent rivalry with Illyana who is immune to telepathy like in the early comics. So the two of them spend the movie trying to get more info out of each other, but Illyana doesn't actually know how to play that game. My original idea was that Illyana didn't need to lie because the truth was so outrageous, but in the middle of writing part 3 I realized that the way that plot point was developing along a different path and was turning into her not knowing how to lie since she's had so little human interaction for most of her life.

    One other big change is that there has been no soul sword so far. I don't know what they were thinking having this dramatic reveal shot of her armor and sword forming when she's used both several times throughout the movie already. It's like if in the first Iron Man movie they showed him using the suit five times and then only at the end had a dramatic suiting up sequence. It doesn't work, and since she's trying to keep things secret she's not just going to use it willy nilly like she did in the real movie.

    Roberto isn't changed much besides his skin color, but his relationship with Illyana is made more complicated. Rahne is basically the same and I didn't really have much wrong with her in the film. With Sam I thought expanding on the whole 'he's so poor he had to leave school to work in the mines' thing could help flesh out his character, hence his actually reacting to Roberto offering him a million dollars, humming 'if i had a million dollars,' and bringing the subject up again later on.

    Also thought it'd be neat to have a Sinister cameo if he's the big bad Emma is working for.
    Last edited by sunofdarkchild; 11-05-2020 at 02:21 PM.

  10. #715
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  12. #717
    Amazing Member lunarmagik's Avatar
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    I know I will love next week just from the previews!

    Also I've been enjoying your edits sunofdarkchild! I didn't watch the movies, but from what i've read all your edits have been enjoyable!

    I saw this picture of Magik and I'm not sure from where it could be? It's around the Extraordinary X-men era but it doesn't seem like the artist style at the time
    asasas.jpg

  13. #718
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    Quote Originally Posted by lunarmagik View Post
    I know I will love next week just from the previews!

    Also I've been enjoying your edits sunofdarkchild! I didn't watch the movies, but from what i've read all your edits have been enjoyable!

    I saw this picture of Magik and I'm not sure from where it could be? It's around the Extraordinary X-men era but it doesn't seem like the artist style at the time
    asasas.jpg
    Looks like Yu's style, so probably Inhumans vs. X-Men! He drew a few issues of that

  14. #719
    Amazing Member lunarmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nandes View Post
    Looks like Yu's style, so probably Inhumans vs. X-Men! He drew a few issues of that
    I don't think so :/ I was checking and Yu was drawing her with bangs at the time... but thanks!

  15. #720
    All-New Member RMWH's Avatar
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    It's Phoenix - Resurrection #1

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