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  1. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I think Bishop might have been better off in the long run if he wasn't from the future. Marvel's time travel is far too confusing to grasp most of the time and in Bishop's case it was used to make him a villain in Messiah Complex.
    Well Bishop is a black man, they would find a way to make him a villain.

    The good thing about being a time traeler is that it gave him the perspective of living on a concentration camp, too bad writers took from it was "baby murderer"

  2. #437
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I think Bishop might have been better off in the long run if he wasn't from the future. Marvel's time travel is far too confusing to grasp most of the time and in Bishop's case it was used to make him a villain in Messiah Complex.
    I agree with this. If you look at what being a time traveler has done to the character of Cable, it’s actually been quite terrible. That became his entire focus and reason for being. To the point where nothing else about the character mattered. So him being a major part of the present day Marvel Universe landscape in the 90s has just been tossed out so he could be some sort of “time cop” protecting the timeline. To the point where he actually killed his older self and is now this stupid teenage version running around.

    Bishop would’ve been far better served as just a modern day cop who developed mutant powers. Maybe a highly trained agent of some type. Or a SWAT team guy. But still, just a modern day officer of the law who had latent mutant gifts.

    But, that being the case, he is a time traveler. And a cop from the future. So they just have to play the hand they’ve been dealt. IMO, the writers should kind of ignore that and just tell good stories with him as an X-man in the here and now. Don’t make everything about the dystopian future he hails from. Otherwise he becomes a one-trick pony like Cable and before you know it they’ll be looking for ways to “reboot” him because they’ve so poorly mismanaged him and ruined the character.

  3. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I think Bishop might have been better off in the long run if he wasn't from the future. Marvel's time travel is far too confusing to grasp most of the time and in Bishop's case it was used to make him a villain in Messiah Complex.
    Him being from the future didn't hurt him. We've seen them have success with Cable even to this day. The problem is that there is no long term plan or vision on what to do with him. The last thing they tried turned him into a genocidal baby hunting monster. Kinda hard to live that down. Even when they tried to redeem him, they did it in a minor book in a minor storyline that only Bishop fans would care about.

    If they used a major event to destroy his character, they needed a major event to redeem him.

  4. #439
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    They had no long term plan for Cable either, and thus they ruined him by leaning into the time travel stuff too hard. I hope they don’t do that with Bishop. Just reference it once in awhile. Like they did in that Astonishing X-men run by Charles Soule, where his future knowledge was useful in researching what was going on and pointing to what might be happening. But that’s about it. Similar to how Mike Carey used Cable during his Supernovas run on X-men.

    I remember having high hopes for Lucas in that AXM series to be the breakout star. Unfortunately no such luck. The writer of this article clearly felt the same way...

    https://www.cbr.com/astonishing-x-men-bishop/

  5. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Him being from the future didn't hurt him. We've seen them have success with Cable even to this day. The problem is that there is no long term plan or vision on what to do with him. The last thing they tried turned him into a genocidal baby hunting monster. Kinda hard to live that down. Even when they tried to redeem him, they did it in a minor book in a minor storyline that only Bishop fans would care about.

    If they used a major event to destroy his character, they needed a major event to redeem him.
    Bishop was also a time cop assuring that the timeline would go right in Astonishing and Uncanny.

    I agree that for that big character assassination, Bishop should get a really big redemption on the best selling books or a big line wide event.
    It's funny that Scott kills Xavier and get a entire run of uncanny as redemption, but Bisho get a C list book that few people read.

    It's funny that this kind of character assassination also happen on real life, just saw a judge talking about this.

  6. #441
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    I would chalk it up to anything that happened prior to the Marvel Universe Prime being reset at the end of Secret Wars has basically been forgiven or erased. Especially now with Moira’s ten lives in House of X, I’d just act like that happened in a different reality or timeline and be done with it. So Bishop doesn’t need to be redeemed for it at this point. That was a different reality.

    Definitely want to see more Bishop, though. I would love, love, love it if Percy replaced Colossus with him in X-Force. That seems like the perfect fit for him, on the field team with Logan, Domino and that pain in the ass know-it-all Quire. That would be really fun. Plus he’d get to interact with Sage on the intel side.

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    I would chalk it up to anything that happened prior to the Marvel Universe Prime being reset at the end of Secret Wars has basically been forgiven or erased. Especially now with Moira’s ten lives in House of X, I’d just act like that happened in a different reality or timeline and be done with it. So Bishop doesn’t need to be redeemed for it at this point. That was a different reality.

    Definitely want to see more Bishop, though. I would love, love, love it if Percy replaced Colossus with him in X-Force. That seems like the perfect fit for him, on the field team with Logan, Domino and that pain in the ass know-it-all Quire. That would be really fun. Plus he’d get to interact with Sage on the intel side.
    Well yeah, redemption is long gone because the X-Books have moved on. But even if the X-Men don't remember it the fans do.

    He deserved a better arc to redeem him than what they gave him.

  8. #443
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    Well, maybe give it a throwaway line somewhere. Bishop confides in someone that he has “vague memories of doing horrible things” and that someone (how about Jean) says, “Lucas, we’ve been over this. That wasn’t you. It was another reality entirely. One that got really messed up before Mr. Fantastic rebuilt our universe. You can’t keep punishing yourself for something that didn’t actually happen. At least not in this world.” And then let’s never talk about it again.

    They would’ve been so much better served having Fitzroy be the villain of that Cable series. Perhaps with Bishop pursuing them through time to help Cable and Hope. But what’s done is done... and now let it be undone. Ha.

  9. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Well yeah, redemption is long gone because the X-Books have moved on. But even if the X-Men don't remember it the fans do.

    He deserved a better arc to redeem him than what they gave him.
    Fans remember and the secret wars wasn't a reboot.

  10. #445
    Grizzled Veteran Jackraow21's Avatar
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    It was in many ways. Reed rebuilt the Marvel Universe Prime (versus the 616, which it was formerly called). So it was very, very similar. But not exactly the same. For one thing, both Old Man Logan and Miles Morales made it over to this new reality. And the latter’s family came along as well and was established here. So I’m treating it as a reboot in this case with regards to Bishop and his character assassination in the Cable series, because that arc was so dumb and flew in the face of everything the character had done before.

  11. #446
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I think Bishop might have been better off in the long run if he wasn't from the future. Marvel's time travel is far too confusing to grasp most of the time and in Bishop's case it was used to make him a villain in Messiah Complex.
    After going back and reading the introduction of Bishop, it wasn't a bad story at all. I think they shouldn't have leaned into it the time travel thing after that point though.

  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    It was in many ways. Reed rebuilt the Marvel Universe Prime (versus the 616, which it was formerly called). So it was very, very similar. But not exactly the same. For one thing, both Old Man Logan and Miles Morales made it over to this new reality. And the latter’s family came along as well and was established here. So I’m treating it as a reboot in this case with regards to Bishop and his character assassination in the Cable series, because that arc was so dumb and flew in the face of everything the character had done before.
    Well they making into 616 is a consequence of the event, but it doesn't undo what came before. It was even referenced on the last Uncanny run.
    If they want to retcon that, it as to be more specific on page.

    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    After going back and reading the introduction of Bishop, it wasn't a bad story at all. I think they shouldn't have leaned into it the time travel thing after that point though.
    I think this was the mistake, time travel make some good stories but can't be overused or it gets boring fast
    Last edited by baxer; 11-29-2020 at 11:19 AM.

  13. #448
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    If Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, Omega Red and all kinds of unrepentant murderous, genocidal types can be forgiven on Krakoa; Bishop certainly can too for the murders he committed in future timelines which have long sense been erased by Secret Wars. That’s all I’m saying. Forget about it. Never officially happened now. Those timelines where he committed those crimes are long since erased.

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    If Apocalypse, Magneto, Sinister, Omega Red and all kinds of unrepentant murderous, genocidal types can be forgiven on Krakoa; Bishop certainly can too for the murders he committed in future timelines which have long sense been erased by Secret Wars. That’s all I’m saying. Forget about it. Never officially happened now. Those timelines where he committed those crimes are long since erased.
    The difference is that all those you mentioned started as villains(and some still are). Bishop is a hero and we expected better.

  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    After going back and reading the introduction of Bishop, it wasn't a bad story at all. I think they shouldn't have leaned into it the time travel thing after that point though.
    Yeah, they dipped in the well to many times. He arrived from the future and is stuck in the present with no hope of going back. Leave it there.

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