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  1. #511
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Man With The Stick View Post
    Bishop wasn't possessed by the Demon Bear while he was hunting Hope, it happened after that storyline ended while he was stranded in the future.
    I didn't say when, all I said is that he was retconned as being possessed.

  2. #512
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Yes, they retconned that after the fact just like they retconned Bishop being possessed.

    Prior to that it was Jean and the X-Men defended her.
    Jean died in the issue after DP ate that sun. There wasnt much time for the X-men to really grasp the severity of what she had done and let it settle. They tried to fight for a friend but when DP returned on the moon, they turned on her and fought her before she killed herself

    Bishop was never retconned to being possessed. The Demon Bear stuff happened after he was left in the future in Secnond Coming. It didnt absolve him of anything that happened in Cable's series or Messiah Complex bc he had no DB possessing him then. That was all Bishop

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I didn't say when, all I said is that he was retconned as being possessed.
    Thats not a retcon

  3. #513

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I didn't say when, all I said is that he was retconned as being possessed.
    The possession wasn't a retcon though, it was just something that had happened to him since the last time he appeared. The storyline with Bishop going after Hope ended with him being stranded in the future and after that he didn't appear for a while. He came back in Uncanny X-Force, where it was revealed that he got possessed by the Demon Bear while trying to atone for what he'd done.

  4. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Jean died in the issue after DP ate that sun. There wasnt much time for the X-men to really grasp the severity of what she had done and let it settle. They tried to fight for a friend but when DP returned on the moon, they turned on her and fought her before she killed herself

    Bishop was never retconned to being possessed. The Demon Bear stuff happened after he was left in the future in Secnond Coming. It didnt absolve him of anything that happened in Cable's series or Messiah Complex bc he had no DB possessing him then. That was all Bishop



    Thats not a retcon
    Quote Originally Posted by The Man With The Stick View Post
    The possession wasn't a retcon though, it was just something that had happened to him since the last time he appeared. The storyline with Bishop going after Hope ended with him being stranded in the future and after that he didn't appear for a while. He came back in Uncanny X-Force, where it was revealed that he got possessed by the Demon Bear while trying to atone for what he'd done.
    You're both right, the DB possession was after the Messiah Complex ordeal.

  5. #515
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Jean died in the issue after DP ate that sun. There wasnt much time for the X-men to really grasp the severity of what she had done and let it settle. They tried to fight for a friend but when DP returned on the moon, they turned on her and fought her before she killed herself

    Bishop was never retconned to being possessed. The Demon Bear stuff happened after he was left in the future in Secnond Coming. It didnt absolve him of anything that happened in Cable's series or Messiah Complex bc he had no DB possessing him then. That was all Bishop



    Thats not a retcon
    Well to be truthful it was character assassination. The slide to lunacy was set up in a retcon of Bishop's history saying that he was somehow being driven crazy by the current of things and he was going to find out who this mutant messiah was that messed things up so bad. In actually Bishop was very grounded, and accepting of the bad elements of his original timeline. He was working to make things better by being in the mutant enforcers team. This whole Bishop's a mass murder is nothing more than the fever dream of a bad writer.

  6. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Well to be truthful it was character assassination. The slide to lunacy was set up in a retcon of Bishop's history saying that he was somehow being driven crazy by the current of things and he was going to find out who this mutant messiah was that messed things up so bad. In actually Bishop was very grounded, and accepting of the bad elements of his original timeline. He was working to make things better by being in the mutant enforcers team. This whole Bishop's a mass murder is nothing more than the fever dream of a bad writer.
    What I question is how they X-Writers gave a pass to other mutants(they were possessed, not responsible for their actions) but didn't do the same for Bishop.

    They let that stay with his character.

  7. #517
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    What I question is how they X-Writers gave a pass to other mutants(they were possessed, not responsible for their actions) but didn't do the same for Bishop.

    They let that stay with his character.
    Cyclops didnt get a pass for IvX despite being clearly possessed by DP.

    Bishop is more of a minor character (relatively speaking) and given that he hasnt been in the limelight in quite some time, a retcon was unnecessary. No one talks about that and its largely been irrelevant to him going forward. Its not really a stain thats affecting his viability to be accepted among the X-men

  8. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Cyclops didnt get a pass for IvX despite being clearly possessed by DP.

    Bishop is more of a minor character (relatively speaking) and given that he hasnt been in the limelight in quite some time, a retcon was unnecessary. No one talks about that and its largely been irrelevant to him going forward. Its not really a stain thats affecting his viability to be accepted among the X-men
    Cyclops got a bigger pass than Bishop ever did. Being what you call a minor character has nothing to do with it. He was written in a major event and got portrayed as a genocidal maniac. It was so bad that he was radioactive. He didn't get a pass. No one talks about it now because so much time has passed(same with the other characters).

    And when every mutant is being accepted on Krakoa regardless, it doesn't matter about past sins.

  9. #519
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Cyclops got a bigger pass than Bishop ever did. Being what you call a minor character has nothing to do with it. He was written in a major event and got portrayed as a genocidal maniac. It was so bad that he was radioactive. He didn't get a pass. No one talks about it now because so much time has passed(same with the other characters).

    And when every mutant is being accepted on Krakoa regardless, it doesn't matter about past sins.
    How did Cyclops get a pass? Did you read any of the comics following AVX? He was hated and trashed by the superhero community. Bieng possessed by DP meant nothing. He was a fugitive by the Avengers and shunned by the X-men. Immediately following this he was killed off and demonized in death for the Terrigen crisis. He came back from the dead last year and still faced some flack until HOX, where all of that was ignored and the characters all finally moved on. Bishop NEVER faced the flack that Scott got.

    Being a minor character has everything to do with it. When a character is used consistently, there is more onus to make them viable to the reader. Bishop was in limbo for a while after Second Coming. If he remained a major character that they planned on using, they likely would have done a better job at redeeming him. He wasnt and the thing that has helped him is time as the stuff he did went ignored as it was a relic of a status quo that we are far removed from

  10. #520
    Incredible Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    Until Marvel admits they seriously screwed up comparing Scott with H **** r, I refuse to consider he possibly got a pass

  11. #521
    Astonishing Member Steroid's Avatar
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    Regardless of Cyke or Bishop getting a pass it really doesn't matter. Bishop was a victim of character assassination plain and simple.

  12. #522
    Incredible Member Alphaxman's Avatar
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    I think Scott got more of a "pass" from writers, not that they didn't put him through the ringer, but that he had an arguably, interesting story to tell and how he overcame it. While Bishop was stripped of her character and shipped off to limbo for years. They made him a toxic, genocidal wannabe baby killer. Scott was the tragic hero who took responsibility for the his actions, despite being possessed by bad writing -- I mean the Phoenix.

  13. #523
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steroid View Post
    Regardless of Cyke or Bishop getting a pass it really doesn't matter. Bishop was a victim of character assassination plain and simple.
    Ding, Ding! At the end of the day, he was used as a mechanism for Hope and Cable's development, and nothing more. My only hope for Bishop is when the X-Men go to the big screen. They almost have no choice cause he is the only black male mutant that has any kind of presence or weight and Hollywood gotta fill that quota, lol! Hopefully they will go with the current struggle dreads and leave the Sho'nuff perm at the crib.

  14. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    How did Cyclops get a pass? Did you read any of the comics following AVX? He was hated and trashed by the superhero community. Bieng possessed by DP meant nothing. He was a fugitive by the Avengers and shunned by the X-men. Immediately following this he was killed off and demonized in death for the Terrigen crisis. He came back from the dead last year and still faced some flack until HOX, where all of that was ignored and the characters all finally moved on. Bishop NEVER faced the flack that Scott got.

    Being a minor character has everything to do with it. When a character is used consistently, there is more onus to make them viable to the reader. Bishop was in limbo for a while after Second Coming. If he remained a major character that they planned on using, they likely would have done a better job at redeeming him. He wasnt and the thing that has helped him is time as the stuff he did went ignored as it was a relic of a status quo that we are far removed from
    I don't care about the superhero community, I'm talking fans. And they shouldn't have trashed his character like that in the first place.

  15. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steroid View Post
    Regardless of Cyke or Bishop getting a pass it really doesn't matter. Bishop was a victim of character assassination plain and simple.
    This right here.

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