Cassandra Cain: Batgirl/Orphan Appreciation 2020

[Jackalope89]

When was Shiva confirmed as Chinese?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but her real name is "Sandra Woosan", at least in Romanized spelling.

[millernumber1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but her real name is "Sandra Woosan", at least in Romanized spelling.

I've seen Woosan, Wusan, and Wu-san. And I've been asking Shiva fans for a long time now, and none of them can tell me a specific race nailed down in the comics. Maybe that's changed recently, but I don't think so.

[qwazer07]

That's interesting. I guess she was Chinese too but now. The more you learn.

[Frontier]

Shiva has always come off as ethnically ambiguous while still being obviously Asian to me.

[Blight]

Isn't that BOP book alternate universe like the Walmart books? It doesn't seem possible for it to take place at the same time at Outsiders.

Also, the trope Superhero Movies Don't Use Comic Book Codenames is in play, which is why Cass isn't Batgirl OR Orphan there.

She absolutely should be a second Batgirl. If there's more than one Flash and Superboy, there's no reason there can't be two Batgirls. The Orphan name needs to go - though I do wonder if Outsiders is setting something up in that regard, if you read her conversations with Shiva in the last couple of issues.

Yes, and they take place in their own little universe. Like anything, Conner/Palmiotti have worked together on (Terra mini, the one mini-story of Wonder Woman involving Diana, Karen, and Cass, the Power Girl ongoing, Harley Quinn ongoing, and the Starfire ongoing) is all in continuity with one another and referenced.

[godisawesome]

Cass’s finale solo arc had Shiva hailing from Detroit, making her some kind of hyphenated-American, but part of the problem is that, as far as I can find, Wu-san, Woosan, etc., isn’t an easy name to identify using anglosphere search engines.

Wu is a Chinese and Korean name, while I know someone somewhere tried to integrate the Japanese honorific -san as it’s ending... but that probably speaks more to Denny O’Neill probably just creating a vaguely Asian name than anything specific.

Though her having the name “Sandra” and her sister being named “Carolyn” probably does imply she’s got a multi-ethnic background of some kind, and the fact she uses a Hindu god’s (arguably *the* Hindu god) name just adds to it; a smart move if you adapted her to new media and wanted to address her background would be to make her multi-cultural identity explicit... though now I’m thinking of the fun you could have with her remaining a Detroit loyalists at heart, if for no other reason than the idea of Lady Shiva, who traditionally likes luxuries quite a bit, being a rampaging Lions fan is abolsitely hilarious.

[Shamrock Holmes]

Digging the new HARLEY&BOP look for Cassandra. Hope it sticks and she gets a new code name.

Attachment 96757

It's certainly not the worst thing to come out of that title and the movie.

Isn't that BOP book alternate universe like the Walmart books? It doesn't seem possible for it to take place at the same time at Outsiders.

Also, the trope Superhero Movies Don't Use Comic Book Codenames is in play, which is why Cass isn't Batgirl OR Orphan there.

She absolutely should be a second Batgirl. If there's more than one Flash and Superboy, there's no reason there can't be two Batgirls. The Orphan name needs to go - though I do wonder if Outsiders is setting something up in that regard, if you read her conversations with Shiva in the last couple of issues.

Here's hoping on the "new codename" thing, Orphan is lame and stupid, and her other codenames -- Kasumi and Blackbat/Black Bat -- have trademark/copyright complications that DC would probably just as soon avoid.

[Aahz]

There was one Who-is-Who article about Shiva, where it was said that she is eurasian, and if you go by the original Richard Dragon series, the O-Sensei was the godfather of her sister. And the O-Sensei was living in Japan (but he might have been Chinese).

[SneakyLookingSort]

Digging the new HARLEY&BOP look for Cassandra. Hope it sticks and she gets a new code name.

Attachment 96757

Looks like a budget Nightwing costume. I hate the pigtails and the ninja mask and I hope nothing about her association with Harley sticks.

[Aahz]

I really find it wired how Outsiders and DCeased-Unkillables now try to portrait Shiva as "Loving Mom" for Cass, that seems totally OOC for Shiva.

[JackDaw]

I remember her fighting a few villain of the weeks in the first issues of her solo. One was a Meta who actually gave her some trouble.

Her first big villain was Shiva, as I recall.

I’m reading the run right now..always read years in arrears. Just coming to end of first trade (“Silent Knight”). So even with my wonky memory can confirm you’re right, as usual. Batman had a “no metas” rule in place early on...but forgot to tell some street level hulking meta.

Really enjoying the run. And as I was reading realised I always have enjoyed the Kelley Puckett stories I’ve read...had a quick look a couple of hours ago to see what else he’s written, and was disappointed to see he’s not written that many D.C. comics.

[The Whovian]

I've seen Woosan, Wusan, and Wu-san. And I've been asking Shiva fans for a long time now, and none of them can tell me a specific race nailed down in the comics. Maybe that's changed recently, but I don't think so.

I'm a big Shiva fan and all I can tell you is that she is Asian. I can't really narrow it down any further than that.

[sifighter]

Digging the new HARLEY&BOP look for Cassandra. Hope it sticks and she gets a new code name.

Attachment 96757

I like the outfit, but yeah can’t say I necessarily like the hair. Maybe if it was like a bun or something, then again hairstyles aren’t exactly my forte.

I really find it wired how Outsiders and DCeased-Unkillables now try to portrait Shiva as "Loving Mom" for Cass, that seems totally OOC for Shiva.

Outsiders I don’t get but I can understand Unkillables, that is the apocalyptic anti-life/undead end of the earth and it’s people. Besides the entire story was about villains at the end of the world becoming better(ish) people as they try to protect children, I can buy that maybe under those circumstances Shiva could try to be a better mother.

[Blight]

I really find it wired how Outsiders and DCeased-Unkillables now try to portrait Shiva as "Loving Mom" for Cass, that seems totally OOC for Shiva.

I think it's totally in line, if we go by her early and appearances in the Question. If you go to the core of the character than these are quite in character and not her being simply written as a one-dimensional villain looking for the edge. If it's the Shiva from Gail's BoP run or Puckett's Batgirl. Honestly, it lines better with that. You have so many villainous mothers' in DC that even some joke at the trope "murder moms".

[Electricmastro]

Batman and Robin Eternal #3 (December, 2015). Art by Tony Daniel.