Cassandra Cain: Batgirl/Orphan Appreciation 2020

[Restingvoice]

Does anyone know how well that Shadow of the Batgirl book sold? I liked it a lot, but getting an idea how that went might help a lot bette RO understand whether Cass would do better in big chunks of storytelling, or returning to a more issue-by-issue artwork-based story, like her first solo.

3730 at rank 16
rank 1 is Harleen at 7000 something

[Konja7]

3730 at rank 16
rank 1 is Harleen at 7000 something

Where is this rank?

[Aahz]

With the right writer, I think Cass could easily outpace Babs. Cass brings both diversity and a modern motivation to the role that IMO, Babs lacks.

Diversity is not really generating sales when it comes to comics, and if her motivation is so much better than Barbaras ...

And the "right writer" is the really big problem here, if you put the same level of writer on the book they had on Batgirl book in the past years, I don't think that the book would be really any better.

[Blight]

Unlike IP's like Nightwing, BatGirl like Robin and Batman are coporate IP's which means DC doesn't just get to decide 100%.

Whatever Didio might have wanted would have needed WB to okay it.

BatGirl is far too important and most of her value doesn't come from the comics so WB is very involved in deciding who wears that mantle.

The possibilities of Cass or Steph officially becoming Batgirl is very low.

Yet, we had two series already (Shadow and Unkillables) that both brought back that identity to Cassandra. Add to the fact that this is an actual plot point in Batman & the Outsiders brought up by Lady Shiva. You don't just go teasing that idea with a variant cover to boot. There are way too many things happening that suggest it. The thing is though, there are A LOT of writers who want to write a Cass solo and have freely admitted it. The latest being again Kelly Thompson. It really does feel like DiDio was the holdout on that given we heard his crazy stance on legacy characters in his Newsarama interview. Add to the stuff we heard today with what Bryan Q. Miller talked about editorial in the Batgirls panel. Yeah... I'm seeing DiDio as the big roadblock. He's gone, and suddenly Tynion is allowed things he never was in his Tec run. You don't think there's the slightest possibility that Tynion is using his clout With Batgirl now confirmed to end you know something will replace it and Batman & the Outsiders.

Question is-- what? Batgirl with Cass with Harper/Cullen in supporting roles (as Tynion is now teasing he's going to use them again)? Batgirls with Babs/Cass/Steph?

The grand problem with Barbara as Batgirl was that DC kind of limited the character to certain storylines. How many bad boy supervillains did Barbara fight in her stories? An evil Oracle? Love interests who were bad boys? James Jr? The various one and done villains to see what could work or not with Babs? What was the character's life beyond being Batgirl? It wasn't until the last two writers we got an established quo with Babs. How many costume changes to usher in new eras to the character? Then again, the same could be said about Nightwing who's had his own problems with recursion. Where do these stories start? Then compare that to Cass and her ongoing.

Really the best thing Babs had going for the two volumes were the stellar supporting characters around her. That's about it.

[Steel Inquisitor]

As the current market is pretty closed, it is pretty difficult that Cassandra (or any character) pick up new readers, since there are almost no new readers.

The industry has been vastly more open to new readers since her solo series was published.

[Aahz]

Yet, we had two series already (Shadow and Unkillables) that both brought back that identity to Cassandra.

But those are else worlds were the writers can pretty much do whatever they want.

[Digifiend]

I mean, Silver Age holdovers have led to successful comic runs in the past so I wouldn't hold that against her.

At the end of the day the writing and take decides better stories.

Yeah, Barry Allen is a silver age holdover too. And he's had a TV show running for six years and eleven years of comics since his resurrection.

[WebLurker]

Yeah, Barry Allen is a silver age holdover too. And he's had a TV show running for six years and eleven years of comics since his resurrection.

Course, wasn't that in part due to the Powers That Be wanting him there more so then consumer demand?

[batnbreakfast]

Diversity is not really generating sales when it comes to comics, and if her motivation is so much better than Barbaras ...

And the "right writer" is the really big problem here, if you put the same level of writer on the book they had on Batgirl book in the past years, I don't think that the book would be really any better.

What if they hire G. Willow Wilson and do a Ms Marvel in Gotham type of book? *ducks*
Actually I never read MM but is the level of success I wish on Cass

[The Cool Thatguy]

Course, wasn't that in part due to the Powers That Be wanting him there more so then consumer demand?

While using 90% of Wally's mythos

*cough*

[Aahz]

What if they hire G. Willow Wilson and do a Ms Marvel in Gotham type of book? *ducks*
Actually I never read MM but is the level of success I wish on Cass

No idea I have also never read Ms Marvel.
But I'm not sure if Cass would be the right choice for a "Ms Marvel in Gotham" book, Barbara or Stephanie might be a better fit.

[Frontier]

Course, wasn't that in part due to the Powers That Be wanting him there more so then consumer demand?

While using 90% of Wally's mythos

*cough*

Whether that's true or not stuff with both Barry and Hal still sell fairly well so it's not as if you can hold their Silver Age status against them from a marketing standpoint.

[Aahz]

Also Barbara is also going to be Batgirl in 3 Jokers, and that's probably going to be way bigger than Shadow and Unkillables.

[Konja7]

What if they hire G. Willow Wilson and do a Ms Marvel in Gotham type of book? *ducks*
Actually I never read MM but is the level of success I wish on Cass

I don't really like G. Willow Wilson in Wonder Woman. An the sales don't really improve therem

In my opinión, G. Willow Willow is better to writer characters like Stephanie or Barbara.

[Blight]

But those are else worlds were the writers can pretty much do whatever they want.

Perhaps, but for the last five years ago it was forbidden to even consider Cass (or Steph) a Batgirl. Oh, sure we got little bones with Future's End (but like you said that was an alternate reality) and a two-issue Convergence Batgirl (which did none of the characters involved any favors). That for Cass to even get a bat symbol was something the higher-ups denied Tynion. If that was an elseworlds then why bring in elements that are being adapted in the mainline (older Jon, Steph as Robin)? Unless...