Cassandra Cain: Batgirl/Orphan Appreciation 2020

[omnipotentimpotent]

What's "B&R: E," again?


Batman & Robin: Eternal

Tynion and Snyder book that reintroduced Cass.

[Frontier]

Thought that was the weak part of the story, to be honest, but I've seen far worse.

I liked it, but to each their own .

Seconded. Found it really interesting that they streamlined things where Batman himself didn't seem to have existed in this world. I'm a-okay with that, although I was rather curious what the authorial intent by that choice was.

I think it was just to streamline things to Babs rather then a deliberate snub of Batman. Bruce is important to Cass but he wouldn't have fit in this story as it is.

I agree with the idea that it wouldn't be too hard to slide him in if the author ever makes a sequel.

Honestly, I liked this look better then the original one. While it made sense for her to be using the prototype for most of the story (it's an origin story and her getting the "real" costume really sells the ending), I do wish we'd gotten more of it.

Original one as in her original Batgirl look from the comics or her prototype suit?

[WebLurker]

What's "B&R: E," again?


Batman & Robin: Eternal

Tynion and Snyder book that reintroduced Cass.

Oh.

I liked it, but to each their own .

Okay.

I think it was just to streamline things to Babs rather then a deliberate snub of Batman. Bruce is important to Cass but he wouldn't have fit in this story as it is.

For sure. Think it was the right call myself.

I agree with the idea that it wouldn't be too hard to slide him in if the author ever makes a sequel.

If they did make one. Outside of the interlinked Teen Titans ones, it looks like these YA graphic novels are one-and-dones. Which is a shame, IMHO, given that they're almost all origin stories and they seem incomplete without a continuation.

Original one as in her original Batgirl look from the comics or her prototype suit?

Original comics look (all black with the covered mouth). Nothing against it, but I think the final Shadow suit was better.

[Blight]

You know, I really hated the fact that Tim, Cass, or Steph weren't in the DC "New 52" movie universe. But after seeing a good chunk of the preview of JL Dark: Apokolips War. I am so glad they're not to avoid what goes on in that.

[Frontier]

If they did make one. Outside of the interlinked Teen Titans ones, it looks like these YA graphic novels are one-and-dones. Which is a shame, IMHO, given that they're almost all origin stories and they seem incomplete without a continuation.

I wouldn't rule out sequels if the books do well enough. We're pretty early into this line of books.

Original comics look (all black with the covered mouth). Nothing against it, but I think the final Shadow suit was better.

I think the Shadow look only really works in that universe. I don't think it would fit well as a main suit otherwise.

[godisawesome]

You know, I really hated the fact that Tim, Cass, or Steph weren't in the DC "New 52" movie universe. But after seeing a good chunk of the preview of JL Dark: Apokolips War. I am so glad they're not to avoid what goes on in that.

Honestly, the “New 52” movies are pretty much only really good for action scenes, and that’s it. Character wise, they tend to be such static and yet exaggerated portrayals that it feels like one movie would be a good advertisement for a character... but they show how badly a refusal to do character work can be for continued storytelling. Everyone’s kind of so one note that I don’t think Steph, Cass, or Tim would do well there... largely because I don’t think Dick or Damian have done all that well either. Damian’s at least got the cool backstory, and 8 think the voice actor is trying, bu the voice direction and characterization choices are so bland.

If Cass showed up there, I think she’d just be a silent action sequence - which is not a bad way to sell the character - but I don’t think people would even react to her the right way.

Weismann’s barely done anything with her in Young Justice, but I feel like having her team freak out at her attack method on Clayface is the kind of thing the New 52 movies wouldn’t even have - that would be pointing out gratuitous violence for character reasons, and those films don’t really do that very well.

[Digifiend]

Speaking of YJ, by the time she was introduced, Barbara was in her wheelchair, and thus was no longer Batgirl. So why is Cass called Orphan instead of Batgirl? Her costume does look like her Batgirl one minus the ears and bat symbol, and not like her current comics costume.

[Frontier]

Honestly, the “New 52” movies are pretty much only really good for action scenes, and that’s it. Character wise, they tend to be such static and yet exaggerated portrayals that it feels like one movie would be a good advertisement for a character... but they show how badly a refusal to do character work can be for continued storytelling. Everyone’s kind of so one note that I don’t think Steph, Cass, or Tim would do well there... largely because I don’t think Dick or Damian have done all that well either. Damian’s at least got the cool backstory, and 8 think the voice actor is trying, bu the voice direction and characterization choices are so bland.

If Cass showed up there, I think she’d just be a silent action sequence - which is not a bad way to sell the character - but I don’t think people would even react to her the right way.

I think Damian in the movies kind of runs counter to your point about a lack of character work in the animated films (which have become less and less New 52-centric over time) when you see how he's developed over the course of each film he's appeared in. Maybe it wasn't handled as well as it was in the comics, but it was there. I also think they've established a fair amount of layers with Dick and even Bruce.

The Teen Titans, Suicide Squad, and Superman films also had a lot of good character focus in my opinion.

Weismann’s barely done anything with her in Young Justice, but I feel like having her team freak out at her attack method on Clayface is the kind of thing the New 52 movies wouldn’t even have - that would be pointing out gratuitous violence for character reasons, and those films don’t really do that very well.

I really don't like how they gave her a sword. She's supposed to be a master hand-to-hand fighter, not a swordswoman, and it stands out that they did it with Shiva too.

Speaking of YJ, by the time she was introduced, Barbara was in her wheelchair, and thus was no longer Batgirl. So why is Cass called Orphan instead of Batgirl? Her costume does look like her Batgirl one minus the ears and bat symbol, and not like her current comics costume.

They said it was because Babs was still alive and they wanted Cass and Steph to carve out their own identities...not that it's stopped them before, so it was really weird reasoning.

I'd hate to think DC execs told them they couldn't have Cass as Batgirl, but they've never been that strict with Young Justice.

[Digifiend]

That's dumb reasoning, because Babs was still alive in the comics too. Calling Cass Batgirl would've matched their story in the comics. Also, the existence of Shadow of the Batgirl, a recent graphic novel starring Cass, proves that they're not unwilling to market her as a Batgirl.

[TheManhunterfromMars]

I read Shadow of the Batgirl, love the clothes Cass uses, her attitude, indeed all characters... I liked so much her relationship with him, I hope she and Duke Thomas (also cute together) get officially in Batman and the Outsiders. Shadow of the Batgirl shows there´s nothing wrong with pairing Cass, as I always said, I love it because of it and many reasons.

Cass is love, Cass is life.
WAIFU 517.jpg

[kjn]

That's dumb reasoning, because Babs was still alive in the comics too. Calling Cass Batgirl would've matched their story in the comics. Also, the existence of Shadow of the Batgirl, a recent graphic novel starring Cass, proves that they're not unwilling to market her as a Batgirl.

Ink and Zoom are practically their own imprints and probably firewalled of from the editorical decisions and choices of the rest of DC's offices.

I also believe that the downsizing of Ink and Zoom to two titles per month was the result of office politics by the greybeards at DC who saw the success of Ink and Zoom as a threat to their own turfs. They couldn't stop them from publishing stuff or influence what they published, but they could limit how much growth Ink and Zoom could get.

[Frontier]

I read Shadow of the Batgirl, love the clothes Cass uses, her attitude, indeed all characters... I liked so much her relationship with him, I hope she and Duke Thomas (also cute together) get officially in Batman and the Outsiders. Shadow of the Batgirl shows there´s nothing wrong with pairing Cass, as I always said, I love it because of it and many reasons.

Cass is love, Cass is life.
WAIFU 517.jpg

The Duke thing is kind of weird to me. Not that I'm against it, but it's weird he's the one she's suddenly close to when, prior to Hill, they had never once really interacted or been depicted together.

[millernumber1]

The Duke thing is kind of weird to me. Not that I'm against it, but it's weird he's the one she's suddenly close to when, prior to Hill, they had never once really interacted or been depicted together.

Especially since Duke has so many love interests at this point - Izzy, Riko, Gotham Girl, that girl from the beginning of We Are Robin, and now Cass.

[TheManhunterfromMars]

So are we recognicing Duke as current Cass´ love interest? I remember here and in other pages many likes to think on Cass and Duke only as friends. I already said it before and repeat: tired of Lady Shiva drama, so so tired, was good at first, but now... Cass needs new things to still developing as character. Like a boyfriend. Like civil friends. School. Maybe get her to martial arts tournments for some reason.

[Katana500]

Cass and Duke could probably complement each others weaknesses quite while. Could be an interesting pairing.