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  1. #661
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Yeah...no.

    No one wants to see Bruce change diapers. No one really expects to see a kid to stick around after dozens of different writing teams without being stuck in a blender.

    Helena Wayne only happened because of Earth 2, coming into creation off panel. No one wants to wait 18 years for her to grow up and take the mantle, or a mantle

    Whether Cass should be legally adopted is meaningless point. That Cass should be part of the inner circle is not.

    It's not just that she'd be his daughter, its that her mindset is the closest to him. All the Robins pull away as part of their identity.

    Cassandra does not. She admires Bruce and his dedication. She'd be more like him if she could. She'd be a foil to him, and the others
    I want to see Bruce tackle diapers. The constant demands for Helena to be introduced, The fever pitch excitement when King teased that picture of cat pregnant, the fondness with which fans recall Bruce's moments with Helena Kyle. All these indicate that lot's of fans want to see Bruce tackle diapers.

    Cass isn't the only only one who admires Bruce and his dedication.
    Cass isn't the only one who'd be more like Bruce if she could and her mindset isn't the closet to his. Lol what books have you been reading?

    Cass doesn't need to be adopted to be part of the inner circle. That is down to other factors. Babs isn't adopted yet she's part of the inner of the circle.
    Kate is Bruce's Cousin yet she isn't part of the inner circle.


    If Birds of Prey was more successful or if Cass had somehow been a standout in that movie then those would have increased the odds of Cass becoming a core member of the batfamily.

    That's what will motivate WB to make more high profile not becoming yet another one of Bruce's 'kids'

  2. #662
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    I want to see Bruce tackle diapers. The constant demands for Helena to be introduced, The fever pitch excitement when King teased that picture of cat pregnant, the fondness with which fans recall Bruce's moments with Helena Kyle. All these indicate that lot's of fans want to see Bruce tackle diapers.

    Cass isn't the only only one who admires Bruce and his dedication.
    Cass isn't the only one who'd be more like Bruce if she could and her mindset isn't the closet to his. Lol what books have you been reading?

    Cass doesn't need to be adopted to be part of the inner circle. That is down to other factors. Babs isn't adopted yet she's part of the inner of the circle.
    Kate is Bruce's Cousin yet she isn't part of the inner circle.


    If Birds of Prey was more successful or if Cass had somehow been a standout in that movie then those would have increased the odds of Cass becoming a core member of the batfamily.

    That's what will motivate WB to make more high profile not becoming yet another one of Bruce's 'kids'
    I mean, it's all different dynamics and depends on what continuity you're looking at or basing your opinion on.

    Like, Cass was core Batfamily and she and Bruce developed a kind of father/daughter bond that contrasted with her relationship to her actual biological father and also developed from her view of being a Bat which is particular to her because of her circumstances.

    Heck, even Kate's been part of the inner circle depending on who is writing her at the time and what the story needs.

  3. #663
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    I want to see Bruce tackle diapers. The constant demands for Helena to be introduced, The fever pitch excitement when King teased that picture of cat pregnant, the fondness with which fans recall Bruce's moments with Helena Kyle. All these indicate that lot's of fans want to see Bruce tackle diapers.

    Cass isn't the only only one who admires Bruce and his dedication.
    Cass isn't the only one who'd be more like Bruce if she could and her mindset isn't the closet to his. Lol what books have you been reading?

    Cass doesn't need to be adopted to be part of the inner circle. That is down to other factors. Babs isn't adopted yet she's part of the inner of the circle.
    Kate is Bruce's Cousin yet she isn't part of the inner circle.


    If Birds of Prey was more successful or if Cass had somehow been a standout in that movie then those would have increased the odds of Cass becoming a core member of the batfamily.

    That's what will motivate WB to make more high profile not becoming yet another one of Bruce's 'kids'
    Okay, there's a small minority of fans that want to see diapers But I'm sure that the editors have no intention of handcuffing new writers to a bat baby, especially as comic characters do not really age.

    Cass is the only one of the Bat family that has Bruce's zeal for the job. The rest strive to balance normal lives and crime fighting. Cass barely has one of those, and barely cares to. Like I said before, Cass being adopted is a meaningless point, her being part of the inner circle is not.

    And while Cass' exposure in outside media isn't great, it's still better than Helena as Bruce's daughter. When people think of the Huntress, they generally don't think of her as daughter of the Batman.

  4. #664
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean, it's all different dynamics and depends on what continuity you're looking at or basing your opinion on.

    Like, Cass was core Batfamily and she and Bruce developed a kind of father/daughter bond that contrasted with her relationship to her actual biological father and also developed from her view of being a Bat which is particular to her because of her circumstances.

    Heck, even Kate's been part of the inner circle depending on who is writing her at the time and what the story needs.
    I'm basing my opinions on definitive core inner circle that is Bruce, the main Robins, Alfred and Bat girl

    The usual suspects.

  5. #665
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    I'm basing my opinions on definitive core inner circle that is Bruce, the main Robins, Alfred and Bat girl

    The usual suspects.
    She was Batgirl though .

  6. #666
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    She was Batgirl though .
    You got me there. I should have said Main/The batgirl ie. Barbara Gordon

  7. #667
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Okay, there's a small minority of fans that want to see diapers But I'm sure that the editors have no intention of handcuffing new writers to a bat baby, especially as comic characters do not really age.

    Cass is the only one of the Bat family that has Bruce's zeal for the job. The rest strive to balance normal lives and crime fighting. Cass barely has one of those, and barely cares to. Like I said before, Cass being adopted is a meaningless point, her being part of the inner circle is not.

    And while Cass' exposure in outside media isn't great, it's still better than Helena as Bruce's daughter. When people think of the Huntress, they generally don't think of her as daughter of the Batman.


    I agree that editorial has no intention of handcuffing writers to a baby bat. They seem to be doing their best to limit Bat dad going so far as undoing Jason's adoption in Rebirth.

    Cass isn't the only one that has Bruce's zeal nor is she the only one who doesn't care for a life besides crime fighting. That is objectively false.

    Damian has the same zeal and no interest in anything in balancing normal life with crimefighting much to Bruce's frustration and best efforts.

    he tackling Bruce's Black case crimes even now that he is no longer Robin.

    You are likely right that thanks to BOP when fans think of Huntress they don't think of Helena but when they think of Bruce Wayne's daughter they do think of Helena.

    When they think of Bruce and Selina's kid they think of Helena
    Those who remember the old BOP TV series are aware of Helena The Huntress Wayne.

    Casuals still are more likely to associate Helena to Bruce's inner circle than BoP Cass who is more Harley's potential sidekick. BOP's Cass was part of Harley's inner circle with zero connection to batman unlike Helena Wayne.

    We both seem to agree that Bruce adopting Cass is meaningless.

  8. #668
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    If Cass gets a spot on DCSHG, is introduced in something like Gotham Knights. Then her chances of becoming part of the definitive inner circle increase.

    Or If she somehow managed to topple Babs or becomes The official Batgirl.

    I believe more goes into who is part of the core bat family than we the readers suspect. I believe the business part is more of a factor than we are willing to consider.

  9. #669
    Spectacular Member km_sus's Avatar
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    What do you guys think of the Batgirl issues following Puckett and Scott (38-73)? I've been re-reading them lately and would like to talk about them a bit.

    I like Horrocks' run better than Gabrych's. Horrocks' issues felt more like a continuation of Puckett's ideas in general. The romance stuff with Black Wind/Connor was kind of weird and rushed, but okay in the end. His BatDad plot was often times pretty horrendous, but he gave that whole storyline a good conclusion I feel. Plus, Bruce being an ass was a staple of this era anyway. Horrocks overall: kind of weird, middling ideas, but he keeps the soul of Puckett's run intact and in the end he delivers a mostly satisfying conclusion to all of his threads. It's just a shame he had to destroy the Cass/Babs relationship for War Games.

    Gabrych was more controversial (no duh) but overall it wasn't as bad as I remember (well, it was kinda). For one, his characterisation for Cass is a way off at times. He has moments and individual issues that shine, but the decision to give Cassandra a permanent narration ruined the show don't tell storytelling that Puckett and Horrocks had maintained. I do like some of his ideas, such as Cass moving to Bludhaven, the Shiva/League stuff and the Deathstroke plot, but it ultimately feels rushed and especially sour when you get to the final issue where Cass breaks her code and kills Shiva. Sure it's right next to a Lazarus Pit, but it's just a prelude to the character assassination that would occur after Infinite Crisis.
    Last edited by km_sus; 11-28-2020 at 01:44 PM.

  10. #670
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    Give me Gabrych any day of the week. He developed Cass from an archtype and into an actual character. Far from perfect, but its a damn shame OYL killed his run.

  11. #671
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    I agree that editorial has no intention of handcuffing writers to a baby bat. They seem to be doing their best to limit Bat dad going so far as undoing Jason's adoption in Rebirth.

    Cass isn't the only one that has Bruce's zeal nor is she the only one who doesn't care for a life besides crime fighting. That is objectively false.

    Damian has the same zeal and no interest in anything in balancing normal life with crimefighting much to Bruce's frustration and best efforts.

    he tackling Bruce's Black case crimes even now that he is no longer Robin.

    You are likely right that thanks to BOP when fans think of Huntress they don't think of Helena but when they think of Bruce Wayne's daughter they do think of Helena.

    When they think of Bruce and Selina's kid they think of Helena
    Those who remember the old BOP TV series are aware of Helena The Huntress Wayne.

    Casuals still are more likely to associate Helena to Bruce's inner circle than BoP Cass who is more Harley's potential sidekick. BOP's Cass was part of Harley's inner circle with zero connection to batman unlike Helena Wayne.

    We both seem to agree that Bruce adopting Cass is meaningless.
    Cass predates Damian though.

    How many people actually remember the BoP show? Granted, I guess it's on DC Universe and has some cult followings.

    I think at the time it happened Bruce adopting her held a lot of meaning and sentiment. It's not something you could do with the other Batgirls.
    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    If Cass gets a spot on DCSHG, is introduced in something like Gotham Knights. Then her chances of becoming part of the definitive inner circle increase.

    Or If she somehow managed to topple Babs or becomes The official Batgirl.

    I believe more goes into who is part of the core bat family than we the readers suspect. I believe the business part is more of a factor than we are willing to consider.
    As long as they don't call her "Orphan."

  12. #672
    Daydreamer ChaosIncarnate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by km_sus View Post
    What do you guys think of the Batgirl issues following Puckett and Scott (38-73)? I've been re-reading them lately and would like to talk about them a bit.

    I like Horrocks' run better than Gabrych's. Horrocks' issues felt more like a continuation of Puckett's ideas in general. The romance stuff with Black Wind/Connor was kind of weird and rushed, but okay in the end. His BatDad plot was often times pretty horrendous, but he gave that whole storyline a good conclusion I feel. Plus, Bruce being an ass was a staple of this era anyway. Horrocks overall: kind of weird, middling ideas, but he keeps the soul of Puckett's run intact and in the end he delivers a mostly satisfying conclusion to all of his threads. It's just a shame he had to destroy the Cass/Babs relationship for War Games.

    Gabrych was more controversial (no duh) but overall it wasn't as bad as I remember (well, it was kinda). For one, his characterisation for Cass is a way off at times. He has moments and individual issues that shine, but the decision to give Cassandra a permanent narration ruined the show don't tell storytelling that Puckett and Horrocks had maintained. I do like some of his ideas, such as Cass moving to Bludhaven, the Shiva/League stuff and the Deathstroke plot, but it ultimately feels rushed and especially sour when you get to the final issue where Cass breaks her code and kills Shiva. Sure it's right next to a Lazarus Pit, but it's just a prelude to the character assassination that would occur after Infinite Crisis.
    I liked every run on Cassandra’s ongoing, the issue is that none of the runs had a clear end point. Horrocks wasnt happy with War Games and Garbrych’s ended prematurely. Both were enjoyable while they lasted, though.
    Books I’m pulling: Justice League Dark, Batman and the, Outsiders, Suicide squad, Daredevil, Tynion’s Batman, X-men, X-force, Marauders, Hellions, X-Factor, Three Jokers, Deceased Dead Planet

  13. #673
    Spectacular Member km_sus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosIncarnate View Post
    I liked every run on Cassandra’s ongoing, the issue is that none of the runs had a clear end point. Horrocks wasnt happy with War Games and Garbrych’s ended prematurely. Both were enjoyable while they lasted, though.
    It is unfortunate that Gabrych didnt get to continue, ultimately. While I disliked much of the execution in his run, his ideas were generally very good. He wanted to give Cassandra a wider supporting cast (which I like in concept) and gave Stephanie a touching send off, which I'll always acknowledge him for.

  14. #674
    Extraordinary Member CPSparkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Cass predates Damian though.

    How many people actually remember the BoP show? Granted, I guess it's on DC Universe and has some cult followings.

    I think at the time it happened Bruce adopting her held a lot of meaning and sentiment. It's not something you could do with the other Batgirls.

    As long as they don't call her "Orphan."
    Cass predates DamianRobin but the Concept of the son of Bruce and Talia predates cass.

    However Cass predating DamianRobin is irrelevant since it doesn't change any of the points I made. Unless we are talking about going back in time to a point when Damian wasn't a thing.

    The current bat family. With the current members, dynamics and roles Cass isn't the only one with those traits.

    I don't know how many remember the show. I've never seen a single full episode I learnt about it from Mr Sunday Movies on Youtube.
    In the UK so don't have access to DCUniverse yet

    orphan is an odd choice. Cass isn't an Orphan
    Last edited by CPSparkles; 11-29-2020 at 12:11 PM.

  15. #675
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CPSparkles View Post
    Cass predates DamianRobin but the Concept of the son of Bruce and Talia predates cass.

    However Cass predating DamianRobin is irrelevant since it doesn't change any of the points I made. Unless we are talking about going back in time to a point when Damian wasn't a thing.

    The current bat family. With the current members, dynamics and roles Cass isn't the only one with those traits.

    I don't know how many remember the show. I've never seen a single full episode I learnt about it from Mr Sunday Movies on Youtube.
    In the UK so don't have access to DCUniverse yet

    orphan is an odd choice. Cass isn't an Orphan
    They're definitely very similar in some respects, but different enough to where I don't think it has to be an issue.

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