Cassandra Cain: Batgirl/Orphan Appreciation 2020

[Konja7]

They can't copyright it

Yeah. I heard about that. It seems Pulp magazine had a hero called Black Bat, so DC can't use that name.

Although I think they could still use something like Shadow Bat (I don't think there is a hero with that name) or similar, right?


However, Outsiders seems to imply Cassandra won't use an alias with Bat in the name, since she deserves more than an extension of Bruce's creation (at least, it is also implied Orphan won't last).

[Frontier]

"Dark Bat?"

(Okay, yeah, it doesn't sound that good).

[CPSparkles]

Yeah. I heard about that. It seems Pulp magazine had a hero called Black Bat, so DC can't use that name.

Although I think they could still use something like Shadow Bat (I don't think there is a hero with that name) or similar, right?


However, Outsiders seems to imply Cassandra won't use an alias with Bat in the name, since she deserves more than an extension of Bruce's creation (at least, it is also implied Orphan won't last).

Bruce saying that in Outsiders is nonsense. Batgirl doesn't belong to Bruce so he has no say in who becomes Batgirl. He didn't create the mantle.

Bab's is the only one who can offer the Batgirl mantle to Cass.

[Konja7]

Bruce saying that in Outsiders is nonsense. Batgirl doesn't belong to Bruce so he has no say in who becomes Batgirl. He didn't create the mantle.

Bab's is the only one who can offer the Batgirl mantle to Cass.

I guess it has certain sense, since Batgirl mantle was inspired by Batman. So, saying Batgirl is an extension of Bruce's creation isn't exactly wrong.

At the end, DC (and many fans) likely see Batgirl mantle as a Batman's property. In similar way that DC considers Robin mantle being a Batman's property.


Someone could say that Batgirl and Robin are different cases because Batgirl wasn't a sidekick (although Batman is Barbara's mentor in current continuity), but these aren't really so different.

Dick as Robin was Batman's sidekick, but his suit wasn't even inspired by Batman, it was created for Dick and based of Dick's background.


Anyway, my main point was that Cassandra being too good to be Batgirl is probably to hint that she won't use Batgirl (or a Bat alias) in the future.

[CPSparkles]

I guess it has certain sense, since Batgirl mantle was inspired by Batman. So, saying Batgirl is an extension of Bruce's creation isn't exactly wrong.

At the end, DC (and many fans) likely see Batgirl mantle as a Batman's property. In similar way that DC considers Robin mantle being a Batman's property.


Someone could say that Batgirl and Robin are different cases because Batgirl wasn't a sidekick (although Batman is Barbara's mentor in current continuity), but these aren't really so different.

Dick as Robin was Batman's sidekick, but his suit wasn't even inspired by Batman, it was created for Dick and based of Dick's background.


Anyway, my main point was that Cassandra being too good to be Batgirl is probably to hint that she won't use Batgirl (or a Bat alias) in the future.

I get you. DC should learn from Marvel and Spiderman, instead of dividing their fan bases they should have a different Batgirl for a different Earth. Right now they are alienating fans by having 3 characters as potential batgirls.

revealing Orphan and Spoiler with bat symbols in a title called batgirls while promoting Bab's still as batgirl is a confusing and a cheat.

Sadly fans let them get away with it all the time.

[Frontier]

I guess it has certain sense, since Batgirl mantle was inspired by Batman. So, saying Batgirl is an extension of Bruce's creation isn't exactly wrong.

At the end, DC (and many fans) likely see Batgirl mantle as a Batman's property. In similar way that DC considers Robin mantle being a Batman's property.


Someone could say that Batgirl and Robin are different cases because Batgirl wasn't a sidekick (although Batman is Barbara's mentor in current continuity), but these aren't really so different.

Dick as Robin was Batman's sidekick, but his suit wasn't even inspired by Batman, it was created for Dick and based of Dick's background.


Anyway, my main point was that Cassandra being too good to be Batgirl is probably to hint that she won't use Batgirl (or a Bat alias) in the future.

I think there's a difference between being inspired by and being seen as an extension of a certain hero. So I don't really see the issue with being Batgirl.

I get you. DC should learn from Marvel and Spiderman, instead of dividing their fan bases they should have a different Batgirl for a different Earth. Right now they are alienating fans by having 3 characters as potential batgirls.

revealing Orphan and Spoiler with bat symbols in a title called batgirls while promoting Bab's still as batgirl is a confusing and a cheat.

Sadly fans let them get away with it all the time.

I don't think their fandoms would really want to see them on different Earths, just better utilized and promoted.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Honestly, I hate how they keep trying to push Cass to the fringes of the Batclan, when she ought to be part of the inner circle.

Why is it Bruce can have four freakin' sons, and not one daughter?

[CPSparkles]

Honestly, I hate how they keep trying to push Cass to the fringes of the Batclan, when she ought to be part of the inner circle.

Why is it Bruce can have four freakin' sons, and not one daughter?

Isn't Shiva Cass's mother? Did she die?

Eh.... Bruce had a daughter long before he ever had any sons so he is allowed.

Pretty sure Helena was teased to be coming back so we should be seeing his daughter sooner rather than later.

I wish Kate and Bruce were closer. She is his relation.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Isn't Shiva Cass's mother? Did she die?

Eh.... Bruce had a daughter long before he ever had any sons so he is allowed.

Pretty sure Helena was teased to be coming back so we should be seeing his daughter sooner rather than later.

I wish Kate and Bruce were closer. She is his relation.

I meant adopted/foil. Cass worked great as that in her series

[Konja7]

I meant adopted/foil. Cass worked great as that in her series

Cass wasn't adopted for Bruce on her series. The adoption procedures were mentioned at the end Batgirl Redemption Road, but I don't think we know if these were even complete (since Bruce "died" shortly after that).

Many people in this thread complaint about Bruce treatment to Cass in her Batgirl comic (saying Barbara shows a lot more concern for Cass welfare), so I don't think Bruce and Cass work so good in that aspect.

I remember Cass was closer to Barbara in her comic Batgirl at first.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Cass wasn't adopted for Bruce on her series. The adoption procedures were mentioned at the end Batgirl Redemption Road, but I don't think we know if these were even complete (since Bruce "died" shortly after that).

Many people in this thread complaint about Bruce treatment to Cass in her Batgirl comic (saying Barbara shows a lot more concern for Cass welfare), so I don't think Bruce and Cass work so good in that aspect.

I remember Cass was closer to Barbara in her comic Batgirl at first.

Speaking as one of those who didn't care for her treatment, it's a new canon

In terms of commitment, Cass was far closer to Bruce than she was to Babs. Cass was closer to Babs emotionally.

And frankly, that's what makes her a good foil. She'd be the only one of Bruce's proteges who wants to be like him, who admires commitment to the war.

None of the Robins want to be like Batman (Damien just wants the mantle), but Cass does. Plenty of drama there

[CPSparkles]

I meant adopted/foil. Cass worked great as that in her series

Did she?
Adoption or legal papers making her officially family isn't going to guarantee that she'll become a core part of the inner circle. look at Kate.
Babs has her own family and yet she's part of the inner circle.

[CPSparkles]

Speaking as one of those who didn't care for her treatment, it's a new canon

In terms of commitment, Cass was far closer to Bruce than she was to Babs. Cass was closer to Babs emotionally.

And frankly, that's what makes her a good foil. She'd be the only one of Bruce's proteges who wants to be like him, who admires commitment to the war.

None of the Robins want to be like Batman (Damien just wants the mantle), but Cass does. Plenty of drama there

Aside from the daughter who want's to be like her crime fighting folks going on to take over from them being the story of Helena Wayne.

Dick has been fighting in this War since he was 8 meaning that he is the Bat that has committed the most of his time alive to the war.
Damian has given his life twice for the War and according to Rebirth Batman is so committed he exchanged his soul for the spell to save Gotham.
The war took Jason's life and even after being forced to dig his way out of a grave he's still fighting.

Wanting to be like Bruce isn't a good thing since he isn't a positive role model. The best thing about Batman/Bruce is that he managed to raise a better hero in the form of Dick Grayson.

Damian admired Bruce and wanted to be just like him but Bruce/Batman has been a negative influence [illegal jails, the no killing rule being flexible outside Gotham, encouraging distrust and withholding info from close allies etc]

Dick and Babs are better role models

[Frontier]

Cass is very different from Helena Wayne. But I also don't hold Bruce up as a bad mentor for bad writing.

Honestly, I hate how they keep trying to push Cass to the fringes of the Batclan, when she ought to be part of the inner circle.

Why is it Bruce can have four freakin' sons, and not one daughter?

He hardly ever seems to interact with or seem close to the girls to be honest. I can't even remember the last time he and Barbara had a positive interaction.

[Konja7]

Aside from the daughter who want's to be like her crime fighting folks going on to take over from them being the story of Helena Wayne.

Dick has been fighting in this War since he was 8 meaning that he is the Bat that has committed the most of his time alive to the war.
Damian has given his life twice for the War and according to Rebirth Batman is so committed he exchanged his soul for the spell to save Gotham.
The war took Jason's life and even after being forced to dig his way out of a grave he's still fighting.

Wanting to be like Bruce isn't a good thing since he isn't a positive role model. The best thing about Batman/Bruce is that he managed to raise a better hero in the form of Dick Grayson.

Damian admired Bruce and wanted to be just like him but Bruce/Batman has been a negative influence [illegal jails, the no killing rule being flexible outside Gotham, encouraging distrust and withholding info from close allies etc]

Dick and Babs are better role models

Considering The Cool Thatguy doesn't like Bruce treatment to Cassandra in her Batgirl, I think he should know Bruce isn't a good role model.

The Cool Thatguy just want that concept for Cassandra, because it could help her.

Also, a close relationship with Bruce will likely give Cassandra more prominence than a close relationship with Dick or Babs.