Cassandra Cain: Batgirl/Orphan Appreciation 2020

[ChangingStation]

To be honest, I think part of the problem is... Both Cass' Batgirl and the Robin series both spun out of two of the greatest Bat family Crossovers, No Man's Land and Knightfall respectfully. Combined with it being the first solo series either identity ever got and this gave them a push that they might have other wise failed to live up to... It's the same with Barman Reborn, there was legitimate interest for the Spin-Offs thanks to the line.

[Konja7]

Why? She's done that before.

Yeah. And her sólo was cancelled at the end.

The current market is even more harder for a solo (even more popular and recognizable characters have problems with this). Not to mention that Cassandra popularity has been negatively affected by DC mistreatment.

So, I really doubt they will give a solo to Cassandra.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yeah. And her sólo was cancelled at the end.

The current market is even more harder for a solo (even more popular and recognizable characters have problems with this). Not to mention that Cassandra popularity has been negatively affected by DC mistreatment.

So, I really doubt they will give a solo to Cassandra.

I would point out, that at the time, Cass' title outsold several OYL titles that were brought back and revamped. Her cancellation then was little more than the start of the long prelude to bringing back Babs as the OG Batgirl.

That said, I wouldn't have high expectations for any spin off Bat book these days. We know that books get cancelled on a whim, and second string characters can be burned for the slightest brainfart that happens in the next crossover.

We all know that, so IMO a lot of readers don't get invested.

Worse, we all know that, but I've never seen any evidence that the editors themselves know that the readers are genre savy, and will ever take any action to correct it.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Yeah. And her sólo was cancelled at the end.

The current market is even more harder for a solo (even more popular and recognizable characters have problems with this). Not to mention that Cassandra popularity has been negatively affected by DC mistreatment.

So, I really doubt they will give a solo to Cassandra.

Her solo lasted for 73 issues and has the majority of it in trade, the latter even Tim Drake's Robin series didn't get. But I agree, she's not a high priority for the Bat office right now.

[lowfyr]

Yeah. And her sólo was cancelled at the end.

The current market is even more harder for a solo (even more popular and recognizable characters have problems with this). Not to mention that Cassandra popularity has been negatively affected by DC mistreatment.

So, I really doubt they will give a solo to Cassandra.

But not because of sales. The series was more sucessful than a lot of other series not canceled. It was the personal bias of Didio that ended her series.
If they handle it right it could be a sucess again.

[Konja7]

But not because of sales. The series was more sucessful than a lot of other series not canceled. It was the personal bias of Didio that ended her series.
If they handle it right it could be a sucess again.

True. Even between Batman family books, Catwoman has lower sales, but it was mantained (although Holly Robinson was Catwoman in OYL).

That said, I'm not so sure a solo for Batgirl Cassandra could be a success again in the current market. There are good comics that don't survive. Not to mention that Cassandra's popularity has been affected by DC mistreatment.

[The Cool Thatguy]

True. Even between Batman family books, Catwoman has lower sales, but it was mantained (although Holly Robinson was Catwoman in OYL).

That said, I'm not so sure a solo for Batgirl Cassandra could be a success again in the current market. There are good comics that don't survive. Not to mention that Cassandra's popularity has been affected by DC mistreatment.

It would be an uphill battle, certainly.

Especially given the fact that we all know that her book could be cancelled by the next brainfart of the next Batman writer who wants her to play the victim in say, Two-Face Wars 3, or whatever.

[Blight]

Cassandra's original comic was canceled (and i quote the inker of the final issue), that the series was canceled due to Batwoman (which the ongoing never manifested at that time). Because the thought process at the time was, "Two female solo Bat comics was two too many." The funny thing, and curious thing is though. We're now into the portion where obviously this is the post-DiDio era of DC. And what do we find the moment he's gone from the company? Cassandra is possibly back in the main line as Batgirl. However, there is a good point raised that this is indeed a harder market now, than back then. It feels like the biggest critic holding the character back was DiDio himself. Which makes complete sense when you think about his idealogy on legacy characters. Cass/Steph make Barbara the "iconic" Batgirl older.

Still, the pieces are fitting that Cass is becoming Batgirl again. Will she headline a new solo Batgirl ongoing? It's possible. Look at the fact we have her in DCeased: Unkillables and maybe Dead Planet next. But-- the thing that gives me pause is the fact that Tynion keeps teasing BatgirlS. Plural. My gut tells me he's undoing two crimes and we're getting an ongoing featuring all three Batgirls (Barbara, but more in the back as a mentor, and Cass/Steph).

[Restingvoice]

Cassandra's original comic was canceled (and i quote the inker of the final issue), that the series was canceled due to Batwoman (which the ongoing never manifested at that time). Because the thought process at the time was, "Two female solo Bat comics was two too many." The funny thing, and curious thing is though. We're now into the portion where obviously this is the post-DiDio era of DC. And what do we find the moment he's gone from the company? Cassandra is possibly back in the main line as Batgirl. However, there is a good point raised that this is indeed a harder market now, than back then. It feels like the biggest critic holding the character back was DiDio himself. Which makes complete sense when you think about his idealogy on legacy characters. Cass/Steph make Barbara the "iconic" Batgirl older.

Still, the pieces are fitting that Cass is becoming Batgirl again. Will she headline a new solo Batgirl ongoing? It's possible. Look at the fact we have her in DCeased: Unkillables and maybe Dead Planet next. But-- the thing that gives me pause is the fact that Tynion keeps teasing BatgirlS. Plural. My gut tells me he's undoing two crimes and we're getting an ongoing featuring all three Batgirls (Barbara, but more in the back as a mentor, and Cass/Steph).

Two female solo Bat comics was two too many so let's make her a villain

[Aahz]

Her solo lasted for 73 issues and has the majority of it in trade, the latter even Tim Drake's Robin series didn't get.

But Tim had roughly 200 solo issues if you count all his series.

With Cassandra getting a solo there are imo two problems:
1. it has been pretty long since her last solo, most of the old readers will be gone so they would need to find new ones
2. with her status in the current continuity you have either to redo a lot of character development from her original series (boring for old readers) or you will have to use "Death Metal" (or a similar event) to put the old stuff back into continuity (which would be super confusing).

[Restingvoice]

How's the sale on The Outsiders? It has to be high if they want to give her a solo these days, although I like Tynion's idea if he wants to make a Batgirls series first. Better chance at building momentum.

[The Cool Thatguy]

But Tim had roughly 200 solo issues if you count all his series.

With Cassandra getting a solo there are imo two problems:
1. it has been pretty long since her last solo, most of the old readers will be gone so they would need to find new ones
2. with her status in the current continuity you have either to redo a lot of character development from her original series (boring for old readers) or you will have to use "Death Metal" (or a similar event) to put the old stuff back into continuity (which would be super confusing).

Eh, in different circumstances I think Cass could easily pick up new readers.

But in this environment, I think non established Bats would struggle. There really is no 'Batman' franchise so much as there is Batman, and every other book is his bitch. They don't get to determine their own direction, they're cancelled or rebooted based on whatever the hell the Batman writer wants, which we all know happens all the damn time.

Cass gets a book, how long does anyone think it will last before she gets thrown under the bus because 'Batman works alone, even though he has a million sidekicks'?

[Konja7]

How's the sale on The Outsiders? It has to be high if they want to give her a solo these days, although I like Tynion's idea if he wants to make a Batgirls series first. Better chance at building momentum.

In February, the estimates for "Batman and the Outsiders" #10 was 15,967.

There are estimates for March, but "Batman and the Outsiders" #11 has a regular version and a card stock version. So, the estimates combined from both versions (16,918) are slightly increased from the regular.

The sales aren't good, but other Batfamily book has so bad sales too. That's why I said the current market is pretty hard.

I really doubt DC will give Casssndra a solo.


PS: Putting Batman in the title doesn't seem to help when it is obvious you will only use the character as a support.

[Konja7]

Eh, in different circumstances I think Cass could easily pick up new readers.

But in this environment, I think non established Bats would struggle. There really is no 'Batman' franchise so much as there is Batman, and every other book is his bitch. They don't get to determine their own direction, they're cancelled or rebooted based on whatever the hell the Batman writer wants, which we all know happens all the damn time.

Cass gets a book, how long does anyone think it will last before she gets thrown under the bus because 'Batman works alone, even though he has a million sidekicks'?

As the current market is pretty closed, it is pretty difficult that Cassandra (or any character) pick up new readers, since there are almost no new readers.

[Restingvoice]

In February, the estimates for "Batman and the Outsiders" #10 was 15,967.

There are estimates for March, but "Batman and the Outsiders" #11 has a regular version and a card stock version. So, the estimates combined from both versions (16,918) are slightly increased from the regular.

The sales aren't good, but other Batfamily book has so bad sales too. That's why I said the current market is pretty hard.

I really doubt DC will give Casssndra a solo.


PS: Putting Batman in the title doesn't seem to help when it is obvious you will only use the character as a support.

Oof below Red Hood, yea that's bad...
I'm guessing on normal condition it would be still only around 20,000