Cassandra Cain: Batgirl/Orphan Appreciation 2020

[Aahz]

Eh, in different circumstances I think Cass could easily pick up new readers.

But in this environment, I think non established Bats would struggle. There really is no 'Batman' franchise so much as there is Batman, and every other book is his bitch. They don't get to determine their own direction, they're cancelled or rebooted based on whatever the hell the Batman writer wants, which we all know happens all the damn time.

Cass gets a book, how long does anyone think it will last before she gets thrown under the bus because 'Batman works alone, even though he has a million sidekicks'?

The circumstances are like that since roughly the mid 2000s.

If they made her the main Batgirl again, she might have chance, but I doubt that sales would be better significantly better than the ones of the current book (unless they get much better talent on it).
An "Orphan" book would probably be DOA.

I'm guessing on normal condition it would be still only around 20,000

Which would be still not good considering that Batman is (technically) also in the book.

[The Cool Thatguy]

The circumstances are like that since roughly the mid 2000s.

If they made her the main Batgirl again, she might have chance, but that sales would be better significantly better than the ones of the current book (unless they get much better talent on it).
An "Orphan" book would probably be DOA.

Which would be still not good considering that Batman is (technically) also in the book.

To some degree, but IMO it's never been this bad. And we the readers know it. We know that characters can be yanked away at any time, makes it hard to give a damn, IMO

[Konja7]

The circumstances are like that since roughly the mid 2000s.

If they made her the main Batgirl again, she might have chance, but that sales would be better significantly better than the ones of the current book (unless they get much better talent on it).
An "Orphan" book would probably be DOA.

Which would be still not good considering that Batman is (technically) also in the book.

I think you mean that sales wouldn't be significantly better thatn the current book, right?

Despite the controversy, Batgirl Barbara is pretty popular (and "iconic"). The fact that her comic has so low sales is more an effect of the current market than quality.

That is why it is difficult to imagine that DC is going to remove the Batgirl mantle from Barbara and give it to Cassandra.

[dietrich]

But not because of sales. The series was more sucessful than a lot of other series not canceled. It was the personal bias of Didio that ended her series.
If they handle it right it could be a sucess again.

Unlike IP's like Nightwing, BatGirl like Robin and Batman are coporate IP's which means DC doesn't just get to decide 100%.

Whatever Didio might have wanted would have needed WB to okay it.

BatGirl is far too important and most of her value doesn't come from the comics so WB is very involved in deciding who wears that mantle.

The possibilities of Cass or Steph officially becoming Batgirl is very low.

[Konja7]

Well, Cassandra could have Blackbat identity (a lot better than Orphan), while she uses her Batgirl costume.

A good thing is that her Batgirl's costume isn't the kind of costume that people normally associate with Batgirl. So, she can use that costume with another identity.

[Frontier]

Unlike IP's like Nightwing, BatGirl like Robin and Batman are coporate IP's which means DC doesn't just get to decide 100%.

Whatever Didio might have wanted would have needed WB to okay it.

BatGirl is far too important and most of her value doesn't come from the comics so WB is very involved in deciding who wears that mantle.

The possibilities of Cass or Steph officially becoming Batgirl is very low.

Maybe they saw the Cass graphic novel sold well and want a new Batgirl to spice up sales? I could see it.

[Aahz]

I think you mean that sales wouldn't be significantly better thatn the current book, right?

Yeah that's what I wanted to write.

[Aahz]

Well, Cassandra could have Blackbat identity (a lot better than Orphan), while she uses her Batgirl costume.

IIRC there was problem that there was already a character named Black Bat by some other comics company.

[Aahz]

Maybe they saw the Cass graphic novel sold well and want a new Batgirl to spice up sales? I could see it.

Even then it would make probably more sense to make sequel to the graphic novel.
I mean the Raven novel was afaik a really big success (most likly the most successfull of the ink books), but her mini series had always really low sales.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I think you mean that sales wouldn't be significantly better thatn the current book, right?

Despite the controversy, Batgirl Barbara is pretty popular (and "iconic"). The fact that her comic has so low sales is more an effect of the current market than quality.

That is why it is difficult to imagine that DC is going to remove the Batgirl mantle from Barbara and give it to Cassandra.

Cass' sales at the time were quite well, which is all the more impressive as she was the red headed step child of the Batclan.

With the right writer, I think Cass could easily outpace Babs. Cass brings both diversity and a modern motivation to the role that IMO, Babs lacks.

Cass was and is, progress

[Frontier]

Cass' sales at the time were quite well, which is all the more impressive as she was the red headed step child of the Batclan.

With the right writer, I think Cass could easily outpace Babs. Cass brings both diversity and a modern motivation to the role that IMO, Babs lacks.

Cass was and is, progress

I don't think motivation would matter much to sales numbers, but with a new #1, a new person in the costume, and quality storytelling...there's a chance for good sales.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I don't think motivation would matter much to sales numbers, but with a new #1, a new person in the costume, and quality storytelling...there's a chance for good sales.

Better motivation leads to better stories which leads to better sales

I like Babs, but her Batgirl is a Silver Age holdover. An era who's sensibilities we've largely left behind

[Konja7]

Better motivation leads to better stories which leads to better sales

I like Babs, but her Batgirl is a Silver Age holdover. An era who's sensibilities we've largely left behind

Better stories should lead to better sales, but this isn't always the case. There are pretty good stories that have terrible sales.

Sales depend on whether there is enough audience interested in the concept or not. There are good stories that are not necessarily going to have the necessary interest.

[Frontier]

Better motivation leads to better stories which leads to better sales

I like Babs, but her Batgirl is a Silver Age holdover. An era who's sensibilities we've largely left behind

I mean, Silver Age holdovers have led to successful comic runs in the past so I wouldn't hold that against her.

At the end of the day the writing and take decides better stories.

[godisawesome]

I think the *type* of market a book is released into should be considered as well, and not just in terms of the health of the marketplace - Steph’s Batgirl book seemed to have a much better reception and sell better in TPB format than it did as a monthly comic, if I remember correctly.

A “relaunch” that’s properly marketed can give a character a good boost when they start out.

Does anyone know how well that Shadow of the Batgirl book sold? I liked it a lot, but getting an idea how that went might help a lot bette RO understand whether Cass would do better in big chunks of storytelling, or returning to a more issue-by-issue artwork-based story, like her first solo.