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  1. #61
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpideyClone View Post
    At this point, Ben deserves at least another mini-series like Lost Years or Redemption to chronicle his own redemption. Peter David's attempts to convey some sort of interior conflict never rang true, especially the way the series ended. We got kind of a whitewash when Otto resurrected Ben to his default state, good old Ben was back, but that didn't feel earned either. I'd like to see Ben and Kaine on the road, Ben looking for redemption and Kaine as his conscience, but failing at it from time to time too because his own path is also a work in progress.
    I would love to see that, too. It could even be titled "Scarlet Spiders: Redemption." I also see the vibe being similar to Supernatural, at least in terms of estranged and conflicted brothers traveling around the country fighting monsters without and within.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #62
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    I would love to see that, too. It could even be titled "Scarlet Spiders: Redemption." I also see the vibe being similar to Supernatural, at least in terms of estranged and conflicted brothers traveling around the country fighting monsters without and within.
    Running with that concept and playing off the title "Lost Years," I'd be down for a minseries called "Scarlet Spiders: Found Family."

    Maybe they rescue Aracely.

    -Pav, who could also go for the deep Clone Saga cut that is "Blood Brothers"...
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  3. #63
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Running with that concept and playing off the title "Lost Years," I'd be down for a minseries called "Scarlet Spiders: Found Family."

    Maybe they rescue Aracely.

    -Pav, who could also go for the deep Clone Saga cut that is "Blood Brothers"...
    That would work, and yeah, having Aracely come back and interact with Kaine again, along with Ben, would be very nice.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #64

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    Here's some interesting artwork of Ben and Julia by Milos Slavkovic that was a commission. It makes me wish they would have worked together before the 2000s. Not that I would have been born yet to read those comics.

    milos-slavkovic-scarletspiderwomenlovescenecs.jpg

  5. #65
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern_Maker View Post
    Here's some interesting artwork of Ben and Julia by Milos Slavkovic that was a commission. It makes me wish they would have worked together before the 2000s. Not that I would have been born yet to read those comics.

    milos-slavkovic-scarletspiderwomenlovescenecs.jpg
    I saw that on deviantART. Liked it a lot.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #66
    Radioactive! Spiderfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattern_Maker View Post
    Here's some interesting artwork of Ben and Julia by Milos Slavkovic that was a commission. It makes me wish they would have worked together before the 2000s. Not that I would have been born yet to read those comics.

    milos-slavkovic-scarletspiderwomenlovescenecs.jpg
    I would have picked up Spider-Man again had this been a thing in the 2000's (not so much for the romance thing, but just getting Ben back), I was missing Ben something bad after the 90's.
    Last edited by Spiderfang; 07-13-2020 at 11:10 PM.
    The city I once knew as home is teetering on the edge of radioactive oblivion

  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Captain Craig's Avatar
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    Ben has become the Jason Todd of the Spider-family. Sadly. I say sadly cause he deserved better and one day a writer will hopefully(with editorial blessing) turn him around back into the character he once was. At the least much closer to that.
    "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings" - Optimus Prime

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Craig View Post
    Ben has become the Jason Todd of the Spider-family. Sadly. I say sadly cause he deserved better and one day a writer will hopefully(with editorial blessing) turn him around back into the character he once was. At the least much closer to that.



    I definitely feel like the purpose of PAD's run was to make Ben the Jason Todd of the Spider family but with how things ended in Spidergeddon i feel like they've backed off going down that route which is a good thing but it didn't really give us an indication of what way they'll take his character next and imo that's because they don't really know what to do with him.

  9. #69
    Y'know. Pav's Avatar
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    Not that much of this will be news to anyone here, but I wrote up a little thing for #SpiderManDay about the importance of the Scarlet Spider in my life, and I've copied and pasted it here for anyone here who is interested:

    In our effort to distract ourselves from the impending end of all things, someone declared today #SpiderManDay, and because I've been a fan of Spidey pretty much all my life, I thought I'd share with you a little about my very favorite Spider-Man of them all: Ben Reilly, the Scarlet Spider.

    I was about ten years old, and I was already into Spider-Man -- the comics, the cartoon, the cereal. I remember being at Meijer with my mom -- comics were still in grocery stores back then -- and I saw it: on the cover of this particular issue was Spider-Man fighting... Peter Parker?!

    I was already aware that Spider-Man and Peter Parker were the same person, so how could they be fighting each other? I asked my mom to buy it for me, and thankfully my mom rarely turned down buying me reading material -- even comics.

    Here's what I soon discovered: back in the 70s, there was a short two-issue story in which both Peter Parker and his deceased girlfriend Gwen Stacy were cloned by a mad scientist, and once that story was over, it was rarely referenced. But in an effort to spice things up and grab readers' attention, the decision was made to bring Peter's clone back! And so they did.

    Ben Reilly was (he believed) a clone of Peter Parker, for whom the world held no real possibilities at a life of happiness. He spent five years on the road, trying to find somewhere he might be able to call home -- yet all the time wondering whether a home and happiness were things he even deserved; after all, he was just a clone, not even a real man.

    But Ben Reilly -- who named himself after Uncle Ben and Aunt May -- was really just another Peter Parker and couldn't forget that, "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility." After his initial fight with Peter after his return to NYC, he soon created a costume for himself, was dubbed the Scarlet Spider by the news, and started fighting crime -- sometimes solo, but often beside Spider-Man.

    Now, let me say: part of my initial love for Ben Reilly was because his costume looked so goddamn cool. I loved how the color scheme was a sorta-kinda inversion of the regular Spidey costume; and I loved how Ben wore his webshooters on the outside of his costume!

    But Ben Reilly isn't my favorite Spider-Man just because of a costume. Despite some bad stories in "the Clone Saga," the journey that Ben took was revelatory to me: we watch as, issue after issue, Ben realizes that his worth as a person isn't contingent on the way he was brought into the world, or whether or not he was the original Peter Parker. Given "proof" that he in fact WASN'T the clone by a villain, Ben throws it into the ocean. "LIfe is in the living," he says -- and it's a line that has stuck with me to this day.

    Reading about Ben at a young age allowed me to ask some deep, existential questions: how can a man who can't allow himself to live the only identity he knows ever be anything else? What sort of purpose can a life like that have in the grand scheme? Can we change who we are? And how does life change us from who we were to who we are now?

    Being able to compare Ben and Peter had me thinking all kinds of deep things and started me down the path to where I am now -- as a teacher, sure, but more importantly, as a lifelong student, someone who hasn't stopped asking questions.

    If you've read this far, and there are children in your life, I hope you can share a love of reading with them -- and more specifically: comic books are a treasure. If you've never read one, I guarantee there are some out there waiting for you to love them. Ben Reilly isn't just my favorite Spider-Man; he's my favorite character in all of Literature, above even mighty Henderson, the Rain King.

    Thanks for reading.

    -Pav, who appreciates all the other Scarlet Spider fans out there...
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  10. #70
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    You're welcome, Pav, and thank you for sharing that. It was very moving, believe it or not, and yeah, as much as the Clone Saga may get dumped on by fans and critics (some deservedly, some not so much), it did bring up some very valuable moral and philosophical lessons about the nature of identity, humanity, and life itself and how that gets defined by each person. For that, it deserves (at least) some credit, as does the story of the Scarlet Spider overall, despite how badly handled and misinterpreted it may have become over time.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    You're welcome, Pav, and thank you for sharing that. It was very moving, believe it or not, and yeah, as much as the Clone Saga may get dumped on by fans and critics (some deservedly, some not so much), it did bring up some very valuable moral and philosophical lessons about the nature of identity, humanity, and life itself and how that gets defined by each person. For that, it deserves (at least) some credit, as does the story of the Scarlet Spider overall, despite how badly handled and misinterpreted it may have become over time.
    The art was quite good imo, and some of the one-shots from that time period were really good. I had officially stopped reading Spider-Man during the post-Clone Saga era, so like when that girl spider was masquerading as Spider-Man while Peter retained a civilian life style. Superior Spider-Man was the next best spider story that I loved from beginning to end that moved me since Ben's story (I actually had to look up what happened to him and learned he had died, there was a gap in my reading between trial of Peter Parker and Post Clone Saga).
    The city I once knew as home is teetering on the edge of radioactive oblivion

  12. #72
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing Pav, very inspiring stuff about one of my favorite "other" Spider-Men.

    Reading your post makes me even sadder about poor Ben's current throw-away status in 616 Marvel (and Marvel as a whole).
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Thanks for sharing Pav, very inspiring stuff about one of my favorite "other" Spider-Men.

    Reading your post makes me even sadder about poor Ben's current throw-away status in 616 Marvel (and Marvel as a whole).
    Most characters have throwaway status sadly. They have to at least show up even if it's not really worth anything.

  14. #74
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    As much as I love Peter Parker, Ben Reilly is, was and forever will be MY Spider-Man. The very first issue I ever read was Amazing 401 which opened with a three way stand off between Peter, Ben and the clone who would be Spidercide. Coming in to this complete fresh I had no bias towards Peter and I instantly gravitated towards the more level headed and resourceful Ben. (Which I know was Marvel Editorials sneaky plan at the time.)
    Ever since he was unceremoniously killed off in PPSM:75 I've been waiting for his return and quite frankly I still am. Clone Conspiracy and the subsequent Peter David run I can't even count as Ben stories. That character wasn't Ben, was nothing like Ben and literally had nothing to do with the character I grew up reading in the 90's. Come on Marvel, just for the small hand full of us demanding it, bring back the real Ben Reilly!
    Last edited by Conn Seanery; 08-20-2020 at 05:15 AM.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Displaying_Model_Behaviour View Post
    As much as I love Peter Parker, Ben Reilly is, was and forever will be MY Spider-Man. The very first issue I ever read was Amazing 401 which opened with a three way stand off between Peter, Ben and the clone who would be Spidercide. Coming in to this complete fresh I had no bias towards Peter and I instantly gravitated towards the more level headed and resourceful Ben. (Which I know was Marvel Editorials sneaky plan at the time.)
    Ever since he was unceremoniously killed off in PPSM:75 I've been waiting for his return and quite frankly I still am. Clone Conspiracy and the subsequent Peter David run I can't even count as Ben stories. That character wasn't Ben, was nothing like Ben and literally had nothing to do with the character I grew up reading in the 90's. Come on Marvel, just for the small hand full of us demanding it, bring back the real Ben Reilly!
    Well, his personality was hard reset during the (unfortunately named) Spidergeddon. So maybe you'll get your wish... one day.

    I found the PAD run very frustrating as well. There were a couple good issues like #7 when Ben confronted Death, but overall it was a very narratively confused and inconsistent mess. And PAD pissed away any good will he had built up with that sudden heel-turn for Ben in the last issue. That was a real slap in the face for people who had stuck with the series through the duration of its (often disappointing) run. It's a shame the book wasn't written by someone with more love for Ben, like JM DeMatteis, Tom DeFalco, Chris Yost, Todd Dezago, or Christos Gage..... (I know Gage and Yost weren't around for the 90s CS, but Yost wrote the excellent Kaine 'Scarlet Spider' series, and Gage wrote a very on-point Ben Reilly in that 'X-Men/Spider-Man' limited series... so I think they both would've done a great job).

    I started reading Spidey a couple years before the Clone Saga, but I definitely loved Ben as much as Peter and was crushed when he was killed as well. I found it insulting that Marvel pretended Ben's death and Baby May's existence didn't happen for a few years after the CS ended.
    Last edited by HypnoHustler; 08-20-2020 at 09:49 PM.

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