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  1. #91
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    I wonder what Kurt is doing there. Maybe he’s an overseer for Krakoan teams. He makes sure nothing funky is going on, provides orders/instructions/guidance, and can pull rank on team leaders.

  2. #92
    Incredible Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    I wonder what Kurt is doing there. Maybe he’s an overseer for Krakoan teams. He makes sure nothing funky is going on, provides orders/instructions/guidance, and can pull rank on team leaders.
    No clue. Alex doesn’t look overjoyed to see him.
    Really hope Hickman has some plan for him, feels awfully in limbo at the moment (though Angel has it even worse).

  3. #93
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sungila View Post
    Destiny can be (forever) Kurt's mother. And that's an in-the-marrow-maybe that is so magical it can't be unexpressed. Which is...well..I've been trying to figure out how to ask Nightcrawler fans about something and I haven't discovered the perfect way to begin this topic or even how to name it so...and anyway. It's important...to me, to ask about it

    So, hello and thank you and hi Nightcrawler fans.

    And here:

    Is/was/can the argument be made that Nightcrawler is the "safest" and least overtly appropriative POV for people reading themselves into the discriminated minority experience as expressed through the mutant metaphor in the classic ANAD Claremont-ian 80's X-Men? Why and how and does this change? As actual diversity became increasingly expressed through the expanding cast and increasingly nuanced team books, Nightcrawler's otherness became less significant.

    Kurt was the only exotic mutant that had no physical representation in the real world. It's difficult for me not to retroactively cringe at the diverse team in ANAD and not see the incredible allure of creating a team of ethnicities and genders (as designed by white guys mostly) as a means for offering an entertainment experience in otherness as super power and special connection.

    As the actual diversity and perspectives expanded along with the cast and the additions of new thresholds took shape in the adolescent liminality of the I-was-a-teenage-moster-in-transformation titles, Nightcrawler's safe transport became less important and necessary or even alluring.

    So much has changed...in our world, in my world...I've made real mistakes out of so many of my imagined what if nightmares. I still love Kurt Wagner. It's indelible, doesn't come off...I've scrubbed and bleached and everything...still love Nightcrawler.

    And yet...hmmm : confused :


    Want to talk about it?
    Whats "it" Sungila? I dont think he was ever a stand in for actual minorities with Storm, Karma , Dani, Rictor and both Thunderbirds who we had even back then before more modern comics. If anything Kurt may be for those who look different and I don't mean poc but people with RL physical mutations. The kind that were put in sideshows. Cockrums school friend may be happy to know his three-fingured hands inspired an iconic Marvel character and those who wrote in to the letters collums who had there own deformities for lack of a better word. He is also the only iconic character right now that has this. Characters like Chamber, Eyeboy etc. didn't catch on yet. Plus he is the first and a senior member and has wisdom that the younger characters dont have yet. This way these people don't have only Elephant Man and Quasimodo to relate too. But they can be a hero and live life like normal people where it doesn't end in tragedy.

    Also, another point, Kurt looks like a demon and gets mistaken for one. Demon can mean demonization the demon is the ultimate fear of many people and the most evil thing. There may be a black person who doesn't feel like he can fit into his own community or even a gay person or a woman. That person that may feel like an outcast among outcasts and loathed and feared for whatever reason and seeing someone that looks like them isn't enough. Does that make sense to you? As a woman I have my own thoughts that I will not get into right now and there are plenty of X-Women.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    I love the Classic X-Men series. I always thought Harry’s “Aye, and a handsome one it is, too” was a bit suggestive. If he’s gay that would explain why he’s so tolerant of ‘freaks’ like the X-Men.


    [img]https://2.bp.blogspot.com/BMu-4u4Kk2I1gKky4Aqaz3lnHWTv-tMfm[img]
    Is Harry a Bear? Love this one, Vegan! You almost don't need words John Boltons art almost tells it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    No clue. Alex doesn’t look overjoyed to see him.
    Really hope Hickman has some plan for him, feels awfully in limbo at the moment (though Angel has it even worse).
    It might be nice to see Kurt have some friction with someone. I know he practically gets along with everyone but he's warmblooded still. When was the last time Kurt had friction with anyone? Brian? I'll most likely going to stick to scans. The only one I'll probably buy is the Davis one-shot.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    Is Harry a Bear? Love this one, Vegan! You almost don't need words John Boltons art almost tells it.



    It might be nice to see Kurt have some friction with someone. I know he practically gets along with everyone but he's warmblooded still. When was the last time Kurt had friction with anyone? Brian? I'll most likely going to stick to scans. The only one I'll probably buy is the Davis one-shot.
    Harry is definitely a bear . Honestly, sometimes I think Bolton was better than Byrne and Cockrum. *runs away*

    I agree it would be nice for Kurt to have some drama. At the same time Iím glad he didnít take the bait when his mother(father?) made some jabs at his faith in HoX.

  5. #95
    Incredible Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Harry is definitely a bear . Honestly, sometimes I think Bolton was better than Byrne and Cockrum. *runs away*

    I agree it would be nice for Kurt to have some drama. At the same time I’m glad he didn’t take the bait when his mother(father?) made some jabs at his faith in HoX.
    Bolton is exceedingly good, the four process colours in the old comics don't do him justice. Byrne and Cockrum were better at doing the colour-by-numbers line work needed at the time. His painted work is particularly fine.

    So, so, so want Mystique to be daddy! So bad I can taste it.
    We have no proof of what Mystique’s original gender is, nothing to say that she wasn’t born male and just chooses to look female, which is another reason to run with the idea as you can touch on gender politics in an interesting and superhero way.

  6. #96
    Mighty Member psylurker's Avatar
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    I agree that the time is right to establish Kurt's real parents as Raven and Irene, especially with the characters being so prominent now in the comics. The whole Azazel travesty would need to be retconned away into something that makes sense though.

  7. #97
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    I have this great idea,why don't we always get a Kurt data page like he's the priest on Krakoa they go to confessions for.He logs everyone's inner highs or lows aspirations expectations or doubts and fears.It would be so much fun it would be like a peek into the ordinary life of Krakoans not beast's spy melodrama but actual heart to hearts to kurt.I don't want the data pages to be long just a paragraphs but mix in a few words of wisdom or contemplations by Kurt on every individual.Hickman should try this.It would be possible to give a few hints around the direction of story developments how Krakoa makes mutants feel a pulse on the nation that way we can know how the QC matches the true feelings of its citizens

  8. #98
    Incredible Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psylurker View Post
    I agree that the time is right to establish Kurt's real parents as Raven and Irene, especially with the characters being so prominent now in the comics. The whole Azazel travesty would need to be retconned away into something that makes sense though.
    Azazel is also on the Island, he was one of the villains Wolverine greeted at the start, which I hope is deliberate.
    I don’t know how you could retcon it away, but I’m positive you could, neither Raven nor Azazel are reliable narrators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I have this great idea,why don't we always get a Kurt data page like he's the priest on Krakoa they go to confessions for.He logs everyone's inner highs or lows aspirations expectations or doubts and fears.It would be so much fun it would be like a peek into the ordinary life of Krakoans not beast's spy melodrama but actual heart to hearts to kurt.I don't want the data pages to be long just a paragraphs but mix in a few words of wisdom or contemplations by Kurt on every individual.Hickman should try this.It would be possible to give a few hints around the direction of story developments how Krakoa makes mutants feel a pulse on the nation that way we can know how the QC matches the true feelings of its citizens
    I’d read that! Not sure I want him in a priestly role; personally I hate religious Kurt almost as much as son-of-a-demon/mutant Kurt but the idea of his diary, full of insights into Island life would be fun. Because you just know that he’s out there, talking to everyone, unlike the rest of the high and mighty Council in their palaces, fortresses and moonbases.
    UK members of parliament have ‘surgeries’ where they meet their constituents, that’s what we need to see.

  9. #99
    Mighty Member psylurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    Azazel is also on the Island, he was one of the villains Wolverine greeted at the start, which I hope is deliberate.
    I don’t know how you could retcon it away, but I’m positive you could, neither Raven nor Azazel are reliable narrators.
    I think one could easily get away with retconning The Draco... if Aaron hadn't brought back Azazel in Amazing X-Men for an encore. That makes it a bit more troublesome to say it's all been a lie. But both Mystique and Destiny are master manipulators so a creative writer who's keen on righting this wrong could leverage that to retcon the retcon.

  10. #100
    Incredible Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by psylurker View Post
    I think one could easily get away with retconning The Draco... if Aaron hadn't brought back Azazel in Amazing X-Men for an encore. That makes it a bit more troublesome to say it's all been a lie. But both Mystique and Destiny are master manipulators so a creative writer who's keen on righting this wrong could leverage that to retcon the retcon.
    Agreed, Amazing does complicate the issue.

    Mystique and Irene as his parents would be worth it.
    And we’ve had stranger retcons.

  11. #101
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegan Daddy View Post
    Harry is definitely a bear . Honestly, sometimes I think Bolton was better than Byrne and Cockrum. *runs away*

    I agree it would be nice for Kurt to have some drama. At the same time I’m glad he didn’t take the bait when his mother(father?) made some jabs at his faith in HoX.
    Hey no need for that Cockrum and Byrne were great but Bolton was in a league all his own.

    I too am happy Kurt didn't let it get to him I guess but a part of me would have liked to have seen him insult her back. Maybe take a shot at her obsessive nature with certain people. *whistles* Kurt rarely snarks but he has it in him.

  12. #102
    That's what makes it fun! Ricochet Rita's Avatar
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    Just here for a second to say that I like Bolton a lot more than Byrne and Cockrum. Actually, I think Cockrum is a superb designer --not a very gifted drawer nor storyteller, though.

    Bye!

    *kisses Kurt*

  13. #103
    Incredible Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricochet Rita View Post
    Just here for a second to say that I like Bolton a lot more than Byrne and Cockrum. Actually, I think Cockrum is a superb designer --not a very gifted drawer nor storyteller, though.

    Bye!

    *kisses Kurt*
    All three are very good. Bolton’s best work is painted, I’ve been following him since his days in Warrior, back in the early ‘80s. Cockrum’s work now looks quite dated, but he’s streets ahead of what we got through most of the ‘90s. And, as you said, he was an absolutely first class designer. Byrne’s style also looks a bit dated now, but he was such a colossus in his day and I am a total sucker for Byrne/George Perez/Alan Davis school of detailed and stylish art and the ability to draw just about anything, civilians, backgrounds, technology, monsters, aliens, superheroes, the whole kaboodle.

    Alan Davis art from Giant Sized, out in March.
    52609A13-C6BC-4D38-8DCC-A87DE70BC0C3.jpg

  14. #104
    Incredible Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    So, X-Men 7 is out... in which Kurt has All the Questions. But none of the answers.
    spoilers:
    He wants to set up a mutant religion, to explore this. Krakoa has even grown him a cathedral, at the moment, only he can enter. This ties in with those tarot cards back in POX 1 and the mention of Cardinal being the last priest of the last religion. And with Kurtís spiritual bent. So Iím not surprised.
    end of spoilers

    Thereís a lot more than this in the issue, itís the most dense with ideas and concepts since HoX/PoX and thereís loads to debate and think about spoilers:
    such as mutants fighting to the death in The Crucible, an idea which Kurt opposed but was defeated on the Quiet Council
    end of spoilers

    Heís also, briefly, in X-Men/Fantastic 4, spoilers:
    where he gets to put his head in his hands and comment on the lack of communication. Itís a very Kurt moment. And one punch, but itís a crowded book, itís not his story.
    end of spoilers

  15. #105

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