Kurt Wagner: Nightcrawler Appreciation 2020

[From The Shadows]

I'm not a Kurt/Amanda shipper, but.... the break-up wasn't something that really made sense. Why was the Beyonder suddenly a big deal to Kurt in Secret Wars II? Which he wasn't even apart of, and not the first one? I mean to do this with Kurt all of the sudden and connect this with his faith during a second hand sequel, and a tie-in at that, never sat well with me. But what was it really? Too many things were thrown in. Was it because Amanda was a witch? (which he NEVER minded before). Was it that he felt he wasn't worthy of God (Beyonder)? Was he missing his swashbuckling days? Was he a real man? Blah, blah blah. He was ready to settle down with her - it was brought up during the famous hotub scene everbody knows. And marriage subtly comes up again when he wanted to leave the X-Men and mentions the future of the him and the "woman he loves" and ungrateful humans only issues prior to this, in that scene where Rachel attacks him with her TP/TK when he talks about Jeans death. There was no prior indication that the relationship has been soured and no build up. Claremont never even really expanded on it, just a drop later. So because of the Beyonder Kurt felt his whole manhood was on the line, ok, but what does that have to do with your girl being a witch? Something he didn't care about before? Was it just to chase her away? He even has a thought bubble about his cruelty and wonders exactly this. Am I wondering over nothing? Was this the actual reason?

Claremont writes Amanda going to the Lighthouse looking for Kurt a whole 6 YEARS later. Then nothing, I am not gonna say that if Claremont hadn't left in 91 that anything would have been done. I don't think he would have resolved this, frankly. He just wanted to bring in Amanda for the storyline at the time and just brought in her old relationship to do it. Then when Kurts a priest he refers to her as "the woman he loves" again... at the end of the mini Black Sun which Claremont wrote, where she becomes the new Magik. She says this is her new journey just like the Priesthood is Kurts, yadda, yadda, yadda. We already know what Claremont did in Kurts latest series where she is his "heart" or maybe he was just having a heart attack. Neither ever brought up the break-up. Though Kurt did look contrite when she came to Excalibur to help him with Meggan and Brian just before she joined with the worst codename ever. It's too late to get any answers in story now. This just always bugged me. And it seems to be me only. The consensus is either Kurt was just a jerk or people who didn't like the Amanda relationship just don't care and were just happy it ended period.

[Su_Whisterfield]

I'm not a Kurt/Amanda shipper, but.... the break-up wasn't something that really made sense. Why was the Beyonder suddenly a big deal to Kurt in Secret Wars II? Which he wasn't even apart of, and not the first one? I mean to do this with Kurt all of the sudden and connect this with his faith during a second hand sequel, and a tie-in at that, never sat well with me. But what was it really? Too many things were thrown in. Was it because Amanda was a witch? (which he NEVER minded before). Was it that he felt he wasn't worthy of God (Beyonder)? Was he missing his swashbuckling days? Was he a real man? Blah, blah blah. He was ready to settle down with her - it was brought up during the famous hotub scene everbody knows. And marriage subtly comes up again when he wanted to leave the X-Men and mentions the future of the him and the "woman he loves" and ungrateful humans only issues prior to this, in that scene where Rachel attacks him with her TP/TK when he talks about Jeans death. There was no prior indication that the relationship has been soured and no build up. Claremont never even really expanded on it, just a drop later. So because of the Beyonder Kurt felt his whole manhood was on the line, ok, but what does that have to do with your girl being a witch? Something he didn't care about before? Was it just to chase her away? He even has a thought bubble about his cruelty and wonders exactly this. Am I wondering over nothing? Was this the actual reason?

Claremont writes Amanda going to the Lighthouse looking for Kurt a whole 6 YEARS later. Then nothing, I am not gonna say that if Claremont hadn't left in 91 that anything would have been done. I don't think he would have resolved this, frankly. He just wanted to bring in Amanda for the storyline at the time and just brought in her old relationship to do it. Then when Kurts a priest he refers to her as "the woman he loves" again... at the end of the mini Black Sun which Claremont wrote, where she becomes the new Magik. She says this is her new journey just like the Priesthood is Kurts, yadda, yadda, yadda. We already know what Claremont did in Kurts latest series where she is his "heart" or maybe he was just having a heart attack. Neither ever brought up the break-up. Though Kurt did look contrite when she came to Excalibur to help him with Meggan and Brian just before she joined with the worst codename ever. It's too late to get any answers in story now. This just always bugged me. And it seems to be me only. The consensus is either Kurt was just a jerk or people who didn't like the Amanda relationship just don't care and were just happy it ended period.

Funny, I read the issue where he first breaks up with her just last night.

You raise a lot of valid points, I’d never really thought too much about it, mostly because I hated the whole idea ever since his flight attendant gf was ...dramatic Claremontian pause... actually his foster sister.
I hated it when it was first revealed, hated it ever since.

It’s like giving him the exceptional parentage and upbringing.
Having him born to a normal family abandoned and only surviving to adulthood because of being in a circus is actually more poignant and moving than have his super-villain mother seduced by a demon in a church and having his fortune teller foster mother turn out to be an actual sorceress.
Having a normal human air hostesses fall for him, with all his physical differences, is much more touching than having it be his sister in disguise. Few superheroes date outside the superhero pool, few have ‘normal’ parters, it’s an interesting and different take.
And a lot less creepy.

But this is a fault of the genre, not just Kurt’s origin. Everyone now has a too convoluted origin, the characters have been around so long, too many authors want to put their stamp on the character. I think Wolverine is the best (worst) example of this. He was much more interesting when we didn’t know his backstory.

And don’t get me started on how interconnected everyone’s history is...

Hm, this may have become a rant. Sorry.

Back to Amanda and Kurt. It’s a mess, it’s been a mess for thirty odd years, it’s never going to be a mess. Only CC has any interest in writing her, move on. Give Kurt a new love interest. Or don’t, leave him single.
I’d just be happy with him being used at present. And absolutely delighted if he was shown talking and interacting with his friends.

[From The Shadows]

Funny, I read the issue where he first breaks up with her just last night.

You raise a lot of valid points, I’d never really thought too much about it, mostly because I hated the whole idea ever since his flight attendant gf was ...dramatic Claremontian pause... actually his foster sister.
I hated it when it was first revealed, hated it ever since.

It’s like giving him the exceptional parentage and upbringing.
Having him born to a normal family abandoned and only surviving to adulthood because of being in a circus is actually more poignant and moving than have his super-villain mother seduced by a demon in a church and having his fortune teller foster mother turn out to be an actual sorceress.
Having a normal human air hostesses fall for him, with all his physical differences, is much more touching than having it be his sister in disguise. Few superheroes date outside the superhero pool, few have ‘normal’ parters, it’s an interesting and different take.
And a lot less creepy.

But this is a fault of the genre, not just Kurt’s origin. Everyone now has a too convoluted origin, the characters have been around so long, too many authors want to put their stamp on the character. I think Wolverine is the best (worst) example of this. He was much more interesting when we didn’t know his backstory.

And don’t get me started on how interconnected everyone’s history is...

Hm, this may have become a rant. Sorry.

Back to Amanda and Kurt. It’s a mess, it’s been a mess for thirty odd years, it’s never going to be a mess. Only CC has any interest in writing her, move on. Give Kurt a new love interest. Or don’t, leave him single.
I’d just be happy with him being used at present. And absolutely delighted if he was shown talking and interacting with his friends.

I also would have preferred Amanda being a "simple" flight attendant. A human. I don't think that will be possible for him to have one though, in the current storyline. Not that I need him to be in a relationship. I mean Kurt's gal pals all end up getting a bit of fuzz anyway it seems, and I really mean just fuzz, lol. Since most of us could only think of 3 women he actually bedded. I also miss when Logan was a man of mystery and he wasn't everyone's best friend. Things have just gotten way too convoluted over the years. "On the verge of a rant?" Potato, potahto. This is a discussion forum and that sometimes leads to discussing things we don't understand or even like. Besides, talking about ideas/opinions is fun.

[From The Shadows]

The Favorite X-Men artist thread made me think of what ifs. Like what if Walt Simonson got to draw more X-Men instead of moving on to Thor. Not that that is a bad thing because his run on Thor was one of my favorites in comic history.

Take for example his work on the Marvel/DC X-Men/New Teen Titans crossover. Hey, its fine here. Kurt's in it.

[From The Shadows]

^ I swear when I've read this before, Garth (Beast Boy/Changeling) Brooks, I mean he's called Gar for short... yes... short for Garfield, was fully green and I don't remember the mis coloring. And for those who have never read this or Titans Gar's last name is Logan and Logan likes Hank Williams and some might say this is deestiiinyyyy~! Oh, dear! This may be one of those days again.

[Su_Whisterfield]

The Favorite X-Men artist thread made me think of what ifs. Like what if Walt Simonson got to draw more X-Men instead of moving on to Thor. Not that that is a bad thing because his run on Thor was one of my favorites in comic history.

Take for example his work on the Marvel/DC X-Men/New Teen Titans crossover. Hey, its fine here. Kurt's in it.

I think Gar is miscoloured in that scene.
Too much text from Chris, prom Kurt, to the point when Logan tells him to STFU.
The Scott/Ororo interaction is the best in this scene.

I do like Simonson, his Thor work was superb. I’d have loved him on Uncanny.
Do you remember the real rivalry between New Teen Titans and New X-Men? It was a Big Thing, which made this team up important.
And , yes, I still have the original, upstairs in a box.

[Dipter]

Are Scott and Ororo holding hands in that panel? How sweet

[Su_Whisterfield]

Are Scott and Ororo holding hands in that panel? How sweet

Yeah, the villains were Dark Seid and Dark Phoenix.
Looking at all that CC script, it must have been a nightmare for artists working with him. Particularly this, with two teams of characters. The artists deserve a knighthood!

Edit to add, Kurt comforting Ororo with his tail. I have this head canon that his tail is semi autonomous, kind of like a cat which follows him around but with a bit of its own agency.

D201444F-ADDE-47B5-B57C-2E550E6BDF69.jpg

[From The Shadows]

Yeah, the villains were Dark Seid and Dark Phoenix.
Looking at all that CC script, it must have been a nightmare for artists working with him. Particularly this, with two teams of characters. The artists deserve a knighthood!


Too much text from Chris, prom Kurt, to the point when Logan tells him to STFU.
The Scott/Ororo interaction is the best in this scene.

I do like Simonson, his Thor work was superb. I’d have loved him on Uncanny.
Do you remember the real rivalry between New Teen Titans and New X-Men? It was a Big Thing, which made this team up important.
And , yes, I still have the original, upstairs in a box.

Yes, I do remember the rivalry. It's interesting because Wein helped create and launch ANAD with Cockrum, revamping the X-Men and years later he is doing the same for Teen titans with New Teen Titans with Wolfman and Perez, so he was basically rivaling himself, though he did do more with Titans than write an issue but its still pretty amazing. And yes, CC can get painfully wordy. Logan wants Kurt to talk less and do more... stuff?

Are Scott and Ororo holding hands in that panel? How sweet

They were getting chummy around this time. You can see it in GLMKs as well.

Edit to add, Kurt comforting Ororo with his tail. I have this head canon that his tail is semi autonomous, kind of like a cat which follows him around but with a bit of its own agency.

D201444F-ADDE-47B5-B57C-2E550E6BDF69.jpg

That seems to be a popular fan theory. Is this why Lockheed once had an obsession with it?







I've caved and started scanning my comics again this past week. I lost so many scans when Tiny Pic shut down. But I hate it. Google and Bing really doesn't have that much of what I look for.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Yes, I do remember the rivalry. It's interesting because Wein helped create and launch ANAD with Cockrum, revamping the X-Men and years later he is doing the same for Teen titans with New Teen Titans with Wolfman and Perez, so he was basically rivaling himself, though he did do more with Titans than write an issue but its still pretty amazing. And yes, CC can get painfully wordy. Logan wants Kurt to talk less and do more... stuff?



They were getting chummy around this time. You can see it in GLMKs as well.



That seems to be a popular fan theory. Is this why Lockheed once had an obsession with it?







I've caved and started scanning my comics again this past week. I lost so many scans when Tiny Pic shut down. But I hate it. Google and Bing really doesn't have that much of what I look for.

Always happy with Kurt and Logan ‘stuff’...
When I started I was the only one who slashed them, It’s great talking to others now, even if I’m old enough to be their mother or grandmother.

I currently have Marvel unlimited, if you want me to copy specific pages, not sure about the quality though, I just do screen capture of the page.

[From The Shadows]

Always happy with Kurt and Logan ‘stuff’...
When I started I was the only one who slashed them, It’s great talking to others now, even if I’m old enough to be their mother or grandmother.

I currently have Marvel unlimited, if you want me to copy specific pages, not sure about the quality though, I just do screen capture of the page.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind when I get that tired of it again.

I started reading X-Men in the 80s but I didn't start imagining them together romantically until the 90s. Except I really didn't realize it then. I think I read my first L/K slash online in 1999. A friend pointed the way. And then it all made sense.

I have posted this on CBR before but it was so long ago I will post it again. The art is by Kevin Nowlan. He has drawn some of the most striking covers ever in existence. I wish he had done more interiors.

[Slicknickshady]

I need more Kurt and Kitty moments.

[Su_Whisterfield]

I need more Kurt and Kitty moments.

I’d like to see Kurt with any of his friends.
That’s the disadvantage of Krakoa, everyone feels separated, we’ve lost the family feeling.
We don’t even know where Kurt is living (in fanfic, I’ve given him the nicest habit on the Island, with a waterfall in the bathroom. Because I can).

I’d like to see Kurt’s reaction to the situation in Marauders, but I bet we don’t.

[Hypestyle]

what will be the specifics of Kurt's evangelizing? Will his sermons or classes be depicted in the comics or just take place "off-panel"?

[From The Shadows]

It may just end up being another plot thread just thrown out there with no intention of even being explored. Its not like that ever happens or anything. I don't want him to stick around so we can just have a comment on morality here and there so this isn't anything I haven't already thought about myself.