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  1. #661
    Astonishing Member TooFlyToFail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    I have theory, Kurt’s religion will be very gentle, generic, happy-clappy and it’s Exodus he needs to keep an eye on because he will want something more radical and militant.
    Attachment 102680

    I also worry that he’s feeling more and more isolated, we haven’t seen him talking to anyone apart from that one issue with Scott, and he was alone there, Scott had to go root him out (though it’s implied that he and Logan have been off exploring the island together, we’ve not seen it).
    This is why we need a QC book, for stories like this.

  2. #662
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    I have theory, Kurt’s religion will be very gentle, generic, happy-clappy and it’s Exodus he needs to keep an eye on because he will want something more radical and militant.
    Attachment 102680

    I also worry that he’s feeling more and more isolated, we haven’t seen him talking to anyone apart from that one issue with Scott, and he was alone there, Scott had to go root him out (though it’s implied that he and Logan have been off exploring the island together, we’ve not seen it).
    Pretty sure that you're right in how he's going to build the religion (though that whole thing with him and Storm being at Beasts Round up/Walk of Shame for the Russian Mutants is worrying), but I'm betting that Exodus will become the Judas type figure and co-opt and corrupt it to make it not what Kurt wants. I have a really depressing feeling, as Hickman isn't exactly a writer that is positive on religion, that the religion will start out as a positive and over time will become co-opted and corrupted and end up being used for pushing the mutants into fighting humans using the religion as a thing for conquest and invasion. Think the crusade or something like that. I just have a really bad feeling about the idea of them using this to show how Religion can be good but also really bad when bad people use it for bad reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by TooFlyToFail View Post
    This is why we need a QC book, for stories like this.
    I agree. There needs to be something to show exactly what these groups are thinking. Hell I would love to see a group of mutants reject the ideas of Krakoa, and try to work with humanity to show an opposite idea that humans and Mutants can co exist. While I don't think an illuminati like group would work because of how they are, some group that has the likes of Kurt, Storm, Jean, Scott, Logan, Laura, etc, who probably could cut through whatever is going on with their heads, could work with someone like Steve, or Franklin Richards or others on the outside to show what exactly is happening there.

  3. #663
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Forum member Fokken has drawn this! It’s delightful, particularly the cat going after Kurt’s tail!
    Can’t remember the names of Rogue and Gambt’s cats!

    https://twitter.com/cpfokken/status/...871801346?s=21

  4. #664
    All-New Member Diablo's Avatar
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    It's been a hard year for our fuzzy elf... I'm not reallu optimistic about his future during Hickman's reign... I hoped Hickman had plans for Kurt but his absence from X of swords, a cross-over that seemed written for HIM doesn't make any sense for me.

  5. #665
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
    It's been a hard year for our fuzzy elf... I'm not reallu optimistic about his future during Hickman's reign... I hoped Hickman had plans for Kurt but his absence from X of swords, a cross-over that seemed written for HIM doesn't make any sense for me.
    Oh, he’s got a plot for him all right, the mutant religion stuff is going to start showing up, real soon now. It’s just not a plot I’m particularly enamoured with and it looks like it’s going to be the entirety of his involvement.

  6. #666
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    question Kurt fans. would you like the religious aspect of his character to be further explored or would you rather him deviate from that aspect of his character ? do you think this religious aspects can inhibit the types of stories he can be effective in?
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  7. #667
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    question Kurt fans. would you like the religious aspect of his character to be further explored or would you rather him deviate from that aspect of his character ? do you think this religious aspects can inhibit the types of stories he can be effective in?
    I really hate it being a focus, I’ve no bother with it being a part of his personality, when Chris first introduced it it was just a small detail.
    But way, way too many writers have absolutely no idea about how a European Catholic would behave and too often they write him like an evangelical American Christian which is totally out of character and completely alien to his upbringing. And it dries me nuts when they lay it on thick and make it his whole schtick.

    Kurt is a theatre loving, film buff, who likes to play with swords, he’s grew up in a tiny caravan moving about mainland Europe and over-wintered in Germany. His foster family was Romani and he would be exposed to many different cultures travelling around and amongst the circus people. It’s not that difficult.

  8. #668
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    I really hate it being a focus, I’ve no bother with it being a part of his personality, when Chris first introduced it it was just a small detail.
    But way, way too many writers have absolutely no idea about how a European Catholic would behave and too often they write him like an evangelical American Christian which is totally out of character and completely alien to his upbringing. And it dries me nuts when they lay it on thick and make it his whole schtick.

    Kurt is a theatre loving, film buff, who likes to play with swords, he’s grew up in a tiny caravan moving about mainland Europe and over-wintered in Germany. His foster family was Romani and he would be exposed to many different cultures travelling around and amongst the circus people. It’s not that difficult.
    oh very interesting indeed especially that part where you differentiate between a European catholic (i would assume more closely resembling that of orthodox teaching) and the evangekocal American Christian.

    whenever I read some of the stories he was featured in he seemed so serious and the light-hearted aspects of the character that made me fall in love with him were missing. thanks for your response beloved.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  9. #669
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    But way, way too many writers have absolutely no idea about how a European Catholic would behave and too often they write him like an evangelical American Christian which is totally out of character and completely alien to his upbringing.
    If you think Kurt, even at his worst overly religious characterization, is anywhere near as intense as most American evangelicals, then you must not know many true Evangelicals lol. Kurt, even when written to be holy rolly, is still wayyy to open minded and liberal then most Evangelical sects would allow.

    I do wholeheartedly agree that I wish the writers would stop focusing on the religious aspect of Kurt’s character. There are so many potentially interesting things about him that I feel it is a waste to focus on religion.

  10. #670
    Extraordinary Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Yeah, I have to agree the tower is a bad sign for him, and if he does get removed from his own religion (metaphorically crucifixion if you will or betrayed in some way, becauseHickman tends to like to do that) it's gonna spiral him into serious issues. I would hope that one of his friends would notice how he's feeling.

    Do you have some theories regarding what might happen, I'm curious.
    I pretty much have the same feelings that have already been mentioned on what may happen. I also fear he will be made to fall because they really don't have a place for him. I just hope he doesn't get blamed for any faults because of it. He's hardly included in the SC in comparison to the others.

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    question Kurt fans. would you like the religious aspect of his character to be further explored or would you rather him deviate from that aspect of his character ? do you think this religious aspects can inhibit the types of stories he can be effective in?
    YES. It's the role he always ends up being stuck in. I think they should tone down it or not mention it practically at all (Re: Excalibur). We already know he has faith. Or he did. It's very apparent he has faith by now. That goes either way you want to write Kurt's religion. Focus on other things with the character. Or he can go back to being a street wise priest stalking on the rooftops in his own book, preferably with not a lot of brooding. That is as far as I'd go. With some other elements like space, magic , adventuring in the greater MU...

    Quote Originally Posted by Su_Whisterfield View Post
    Red with ponytail, that’s Cardinal, his chimera.
    Thank you.
    Last edited by From The Shadows; 11-30-2020 at 08:08 PM.

  11. #671
    Extraordinary Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    Look! Logan's huge turkey/chicken (?) leg was colored in, in the hard cover!



    Original printing. I have it. Will it go up in price? No.


  12. #672
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    oh very interesting indeed especially that part where you differentiate between a European catholic (i would assume more closely resembling that of orthodox teaching) and the evangekocal American Christian.

    whenever I read some of the stories he was featured in he seemed so serious and the light-hearted aspects of the character that made me fall in love with him were missing. thanks for your response beloved.
    The way I see it, with or without faith, he’s a kind caring person, the sort of person who would be a social worker or youth worker in the real world. It’s only noteworthy because it’s not that common a trait in his line of work, superheroes.
    I’ve always thought that Kurt is quieter and more introspective than Nightcrawler, who is his stage persona and loves to,be the centre of attention.
    Writers who ignore Kurt’s humour and sense of fun are missing half his personality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight View Post
    If you think Kurt, even at his worst overly religious characterization, is anywhere near as intense as most American evangelicals, then you must not know many true Evangelicals lol. Kurt, even when written to be holy rolly, is still wayyy to open minded and liberal then most Evangelical sects would allow.

    I do wholeheartedly agree that I wish the writers would stop focusing on the religious aspect of Kurt’s character. There are so many potentially interesting things about him that I feel it is a waste to focus on religion.
    You’re correct, of course. I live in the UK and we are an astonishingly secular society by US standards. Britain as a whole is quite horrified by things like the prosperity gospel and televangelists. We’re quite freaked out by the g/o/l/d/e/n c/a/l/f, sorry, Trump sitting there being blessed by a bunch of pastors in the White House!
    Even amongst my US friends, I don’t have any evangelicals and I have friends of many different faiths, but mostly left leaning atheists and the like.
    Myself, I’m a pagan, have been of over forty years.

    I wish they’d stop focusing on Kurt’s faith too, because they make such a bad job of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    I pretty much have the same feelings that have already been mentioned on what may happen. I also fear he will be made to fall because they really don't have a place for him. I just hope he doesn't get blamed for any faults because of it. He's hardly included in the SC in comparison to the others.


    YES. It's the role he always ends up being stuck in. I think they should tone down it or not mention it practically at all (Re: Excalibur). We already know he has faith. Or he did. It's very apparent he has faith by now. That goes either way you want to write Kurt's religion. Focus on other things with the character. Or he can go back to being a street wise priest stalking on the rooftops in his own book, preferably with not a lot of brooding. That is as far as I'd go. With some other elements like space, magic , adventuring in the greater MU...
    Like I said, Small doses, a bit of flavouring, it’s fine, it’s when it becomes all he’s about that I lose interest.
    Something else I think is going to happen, Exodus is going to take him to that outpost and offer him all he sees, a la Jesus and the Devil befor the 40 days in the wilderness.
    What I really wanted was for Hickman to delve into his relationship with Mystique and Irene (and Rogue).

    Also, I want to see him stand up to the council, be at odds with their morally dubious decisions, if you cast him as the moral centre, show that, don’t just have Jean say “you are here to keep us honest” (paraphrased here) you need to show it. So far he’s just sat there and gone along with them, Crucible, the mutant CIA, Sinister’s Hellions. No, if he’s your morally upstanding character, if that’s the role you’ve cast him in, then you need to show him doing that. You need to see him having qualms about even working with Apocalypse and Sinister, even sitting at the same table with them. Because if he doesn’t, then that’s just not the Kurt we’ve had for the past 45 years, it’s just a Hickman plot device that looks like Kurt but lacks the moral fibre which the character brings to the table.

    Sorry. Rant over.

  13. #673
    Astonishing Member Su_Whisterfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    Look! Logan's huge turkey/chicken (?) leg was colored in, in the hard cover!



    Original printing. I have it. Will it go up in price? No.


    I love and adore the forty year old punchline to the joke (shame it was Old Man Logan, but never mind)
    Attachment 102746

  14. #674
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo View Post
    It's been a hard year for our fuzzy elf... I'm not reallu optimistic about his future during Hickman's reign... I hoped Hickman had plans for Kurt but his absence from X of swords, a cross-over that seemed written for HIM doesn't make any sense for me.
    My heartbreak for Kurt as a character is that he is extremely likable but he has not been a very interesting character in a very long time. He will get interesting and powerful moments like the line to Wolverine before teleporting them to their deaths but he has not had any rich character development in decades. I think writers like Kurt but do not find him interesting enough to dive into his character. As a result my favorite X-Man barely get used in any X-Men stories.

  15. #675
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    question Kurt fans. would you like the religious aspect of his character to be further explored or would you rather him deviate from that aspect of his character ? do you think this religious aspects can inhibit the types of stories he can be effective in?
    It would be nice to see it explored again, but not be the end all be all of his character, as others have said there are other things that make Kurt amazing. I do think that too many writers only see him as the moral center as as Su_Whisterfield said, Hickman is not using him as such, which is a shame because he should be the first questioning a lot of this. Hell he should probably be the one that SHOULD help start the opposition party to the QC, seeing that he would be, as pointed out, someone who would probably dislike the idea of working with Shaw, Apokolips and especially Sinister. If anything his religious standpoint should be used as a means of maybe getting Charles to question why he is doing this, and if not Charles then Eric appealing to his own past. Also as pointed out, he would typically not be okay with the Russian Mutants walk of shame, nor would he be okay with the Hellions. If anything he would be working to undermine Shaw, Sinister and maybe Apokolips by spying on them. There is no way he would just sit back and allow for half of the stuff happening on Krakoa to happen at all.

    I would think that with X of Swords, Kurt would have been a shoe in for having one. He's a fencer and an athlete, so I would think that he would have the spirit, given his swashbuckling skills to be one of the Swords based on his personality alone. I mean, heck, Kurt if this was a manga would have been a lead protagonist. I think did hinder him in this sense as outside of "Creating the religion" Hickman can't see him as anything but the "Christ" figure that he's probably going to use to "Die for the sins of the mutants" and then have his religion become corrupted to the point where he's shunned by his fellow Mutants, like how Beast treated the Russian mutants. As I said way to many writers see him as a one note, and there is a big difference between being a Catholic and a Evangelical.

    I'd like to see Kurt being the leader of his own team at some point, working with a set of mutants that are unique like he is. Has anyone given him his own teams?

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