Kurt Wagner: Nightcrawler Appreciation 2020

[sungila]

Destiny can be (forever) Kurt's mother. And that's an in-the-marrow-maybe that is so magical it can't be unexpressed. Which is...well..I've been trying to figure out how to ask Nightcrawler fans about something and I haven't discovered the perfect way to begin this topic or even how to name it so...and anyway. It's important...to me, to ask about it

So, hello and thank you and hi Nightcrawler fans.

And here:

Is/was/can the argument be made that Nightcrawler is the "safest" and least overtly appropriative POV for people reading themselves into the discriminated minority experience as expressed through the mutant metaphor in the classic ANAD Claremont-ian 80's X-Men? Why and how and does this change? As actual diversity became increasingly expressed through the expanding cast and increasingly nuanced team books, Nightcrawler's otherness became less significant.

Kurt was the only exotic mutant that had no physical representation in the real world. It's difficult for me not to retroactively cringe at the diverse team in ANAD and not see the incredible allure of creating a team of ethnicities and genders (as designed by white guys mostly) as a means for offering an entertainment experience in otherness as super power and special connection.

As the actual diversity and perspectives expanded along with the cast and the additions of new thresholds took shape in the adolescent liminality of the I-was-a-teenage-moster-in-transformation titles, Nightcrawler's safe transport became less important and necessary or even alluring.

So much has changed...in our world, in my world...I've made real mistakes out of so many of my imagined what if nightmares. I still love Kurt Wagner. It's indelible, doesn't come off...I've scrubbed and bleached and everything...still love Nightcrawler.

And yet...hmmm


Want to talk about it?

[CRaymond]

Want to talk about it?

I'm always here for you, but sometimes reading your thoughts feels like playing catch with the rain.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Destiny can be (forever) Kurt's mother. And that's an in-the-marrow-maybe that is so magical it can't be unexpressed. Which is...well..I've been trying to figure out how to ask Nightcrawler fans about something and I haven't discovered the perfect way to begin this topic or even how to name it so...and anyway. It's important...to me, to ask about it

So, hello and thank you and hi Nightcrawler fans.

And here:

Is/was/can the argument be made that Nightcrawler is the "safest" and least overtly appropriative POV for people reading themselves into the discriminated minority experience as expressed through the mutant metaphor in the classic ANAD Claremont-ian 80's X-Men? Why and how and does this change? As actual diversity became increasingly expressed through the expanding cast and increasingly nuanced team books, Nightcrawler's otherness became less significant.

Kurt was the only exotic mutant that had no physical representation in the real world. It's difficult for me not to retroactively cringe at the diverse team in ANAD and not see the incredible allure of creating a team of ethnicities and genders (as designed by white guys mostly) as a means for offering an entertainment experience in otherness as super power and special connection.

As the actual diversity and perspectives expanded along with the cast and the additions of new thresholds took shape in the adolescent liminality of the I-was-a-teenage-moster-in-transformation titles, Nightcrawler's safe transport became less important and necessary or even alluring.

So much has changed...in our world, in my world...I've made real mistakes out of so many of my imagined what if nightmares. I still love Kurt Wagner. It's indelible, doesn't come off...I've scrubbed and bleached and everything...still love Nightcrawler.

And yet...hmmm


Want to talk about it?

I think I understand what you are getting at. Is Kurt as ‘other’ as relevant now as it was when he was first introduced?
Is that it?

When I first ‘met’ the X-men it was about 1980. They were in Marvel UK reprint magazines, in black and white. It took me nearly three years to collect all the back issues and issues of Uncanny until I had caught up and started the current comics. It was a different world, there was no internet, no place to get your comics other than seedy sex shops (yes, really, the comics were cover for the x rated stuff, but I have a really good collection of Bizarre Sex and Furry Freak Bros and the like) and dedicated comics stores.
Little secret, due to how Dave Cockrum drew her, I didn’t realise Ororo was African American until I saw her on a cover.

I loved Kurt from day one. I had a long standing elf fetish, no one who knew me was surprised. In part it was the look, he was fascinating to the eye, still is. But what made me love him was his personality.

Was he the safest choice? We didn’t know about appropriation in 1980. We were ignorant, cruel, uneducated. We were ignorant of our ignorance. Hopefully, we’ve learned better than that now.
Hopefully the comics have become more inclusive, more varied, more welcoming to real minorities.

Is Kurt still relevant? I don’t know. He’s still beautiful, still wending his own, brilliant indigo, path through life.
I’m quoting my own fanfic here.

“Just don’t try to put Kurt in a box, based on what you think he wants.”
”Because he will just teleport out of it anyway?”
“Indeed, and then sit on the edge of it.”
“Trying to decide if it would look better painted orange?”
Ororo laughs. “Good heavens, no, Jean, *orange* would clash with his fur.”

I don’t know if this helps?

[cinnaminion]

Are you asking if, due to the improved visibility of real world minority characters in modern X-men comics, Nightcrawler loses importance as a generic representative of marginalized groups? Sorry if I've got this wrong. I think it's an interesting question.

To start with, eh, I don't read X-books for commentary on social issues. I'm glad the X-books have got more depth than just aliens and explosions, but why I read them and like Nightcrawler the best isn't much related to real world stuff. It's got some personal vibes for me but that's it. Also, the X-books' commitment to diversity is second to its commitment to action and drama. There's a certain character (not Crawler) whose portrayal has seriously pissed me off before, because I have someone in my life with an equivalent real world experience, sans X-gene. It's off topic so I won't go into it. Because of stuff like that, in spite of what other people say, I pretty much just see X-books as superhero comics for the imperfect, unpolished side. Superhero teams are all shiny and professional and organized and stuff. The X-men are a ragtag group of misfits and scoundrels and thats how I like it.

We lump a ton of very different people together into the so-called "minority" group, but the problems of group A aren't the same as those of face group B just because they both face systemic discrimination. At the same time, it's not practical to try to represent every form of social issue - among other things, you run a high risk of tokenism, I should think particularly with something like X-men whose priority is entertainment, in the end.

So what's most important is more and better depictions of people in the real world. That's where the details are, the things that matter to real people and the things that aren't always cut and dried.

But I don't think it makes a character like Nightcrawler irrelevant. His blanket "otherness," and that of other mutants who are like him, means anyone can mold him to reflect themselves if they aren't finding something more specific elsewhere. I don't think that's unimportant. Geez, it even means you can relate with him if you're just a sad kid who feels like no one likes them. That's also important. And you can potentially say something with him that might bring out stereotypes if you did it with someone else.

The fact that there are now lots of mutants with physical mutations might lessen the effect of Nightcrawler's appearance - on readers. I tend to feel like Glob Hermann's got a worse hand :P But it shouldn't be a contest of who's the most tragic anyway. The power of a good story is that it makes different people's situations relatable. Once again, I loved Kurt and Domino's mutant support group!

I think Nightcrawler might be the truest representation of how X-books would like to depict diversity, if you can see what I mean... in a way that is both real world relevant and fantastical at the same time. He can just be a cool demonic superhero if you want. Or he can be a reflection of your own experience. Or something in between. It doesn't make him better than any other character, and he certainly can't take the place of actual representation, but I don't think it makes him worse either.

[Su_Whisterfield]

The fact that there are now lots of mutants with physical mutations might lessen the effect of Nightcrawler's appearance . Once again, I loved Kurt and Domino's mutant support group!

I think Nightcrawler might be the truest representation of how X-books would like to depict diversity, if you can see what I mean... in a way that is both real world relevant and fantastical at the same time. He can just be a cool demonic superhero if you want. Or he can be a reflection of your own experience. Or something in between. It doesn't make him better than any other character, and he certainly can't take the place of actual representation, but I don't think it makes him worse either.

Edited your post, sorry,

The bolded - very well said.

Plus, I loved, loved, loved the Mutant Support Group. That’s what comics are for.

Kurt is actually very fortunate; he has a dramatic mutation which makes him an easy target but he grew up in a relatively safe environment and then joined a group who support, finance and protect him. I’d like to think that he’s aware of this. He’s now on a council, leading his nation, he’s not joe mutant anymore.

[sungila]

I'm always here for you, but sometimes reading your thoughts feels like playing catch with the rain.

I think I understand what you are getting at. Is Kurt as ‘other’ as relevant now as it was when he was first introduced?
Is that it?

When I first ‘met’ the X-men it was about 1980. They were in Marvel UK reprint magazines, in black and white. It took me nearly three years to collect all the back issues and issues of Uncanny until I had caught up and started the current comics. It was a different world, there was no internet, no place to get your comics other than seedy sex shops (yes, really, the comics were cover for the x rated stuff, but I have a really good collection of Bizarre Sex and Furry Freak Bros and the like) and dedicated comics stores.
Little secret, due to how Dave Cockrum drew her, I didn’t realise Ororo was African American until I saw her on a cover.

I loved Kurt from day one. I had a long standing elf fetish, no one who knew me was surprised. In part it was the look, he was fascinating to the eye, still is. But what made me love him was his personality.

Was he the safest choice? We didn’t know about appropriation in 1980. We were ignorant, cruel, uneducated. We were ignorant of our ignorance. Hopefully, we’ve learned better than that now.
Hopefully the comics have become more inclusive, more varied, more welcoming to real minorities.

Is Kurt still relevant? I don’t know. He’s still beautiful, still wending his own, brilliant indigo, path through life.
I’m quoting my own fanfic here.

“Just don’t try to put Kurt in a box, based on what you think he wants.”
”Because he will just teleport out of it anyway?”
“Indeed, and then sit on the edge of it.”
“Trying to decide if it would look better painted orange?”
Ororo laughs. “Good heavens, no, Jean, *orange* would clash with his fur.”

I don’t know if this helps?

"...and then sit on the edge of it"
I do feel like if Kurt could overhear Jean and Ororo having this conversation he'd be so very happy. Touched...impossibly...like a hand from behind on the shoulder there softly...as a feather fall....even after the freak out alarm...a "hey there" kinda kindness and knowing. Really great Su.

Are you asking if, due to the improved visibility of real world minority characters in modern X-men comics, Nightcrawler loses importance as a generic representative of marginalized groups? Sorry if I've got this wrong. I think it's an interesting question.

To start with, eh, I don't read X-books for commentary on social issues. I'm glad the X-books have got more depth than just aliens and explosions, but why I read them and like Nightcrawler the best isn't much related to real world stuff. It's got some personal vibes for me but that's it. Also, the X-books' commitment to diversity is second to its commitment to action and drama. There's a certain character (not Crawler) whose portrayal has seriously pissed me off before, because I have someone in my life with an equivalent real world experience, sans X-gene. It's off topic so I won't go into it. Because of stuff like that, in spite of what other people say, I pretty much just see X-books as superhero comics for the imperfect, unpolished side. Superhero teams are all shiny and professional and organized and stuff. The X-men are a ragtag group of misfits and scoundrels and thats how I like it.

We lump a ton of very different people together into the so-called "minority" group, but the problems of group A aren't the same as those of face group B just because they both face systemic discrimination. At the same time, it's not practical to try to represent every form of social issue - among other things, you run a high risk of tokenism, I should think particularly with something like X-men whose priority is entertainment, in the end.

So what's most important is more and better depictions of people in the real world. That's where the details are, the things that matter to real people and the things that aren't always cut and dried.

But I don't think it makes a character like Nightcrawler irrelevant. His blanket "otherness," and that of other mutants who are like him, means anyone can mold him to reflect themselves if they aren't finding something more specific elsewhere. I don't think that's unimportant. Geez, it even means you can relate with him if you're just a sad kid who feels like no one likes them. That's also important. And you can potentially say something with him that might bring out stereotypes if you did it with someone else.

The fact that there are now lots of mutants with physical mutations might lessen the effect of Nightcrawler's appearance - on readers. I tend to feel like Glob Hermann's got a worse hand :P But it shouldn't be a contest of who's the most tragic anyway. The power of a good story is that it makes different people's situations relatable. Once again, I loved Kurt and Domino's mutant support group!

I think Nightcrawler might be the truest representation of how X-books would like to depict diversity, if you can see what I mean... in a way that is both real world relevant and fantastical at the same time. He can just be a cool demonic superhero if you want. Or he can be a reflection of your own experience. Or something in between. It doesn't make him better than any other character, and he certainly can't take the place of actual representation, but I don't think it makes him worse either.

And this is why I really must never post again.

Hi cinnamon, nice to read you here. Please excuse me, though, I'm sorry. I can't, I don't argue points very well at all. I don't even have any...points. Ellipses, though...

I got those...

...yea.



BAMF
...

if only...but then again

...maybe


...what if teleportation is actually vanishing...point to point?

I mean...like...

BAMF

isn't really there where it's written...

agh, yea, me-DIA... (d in arrival)

[Su_Whisterfield]

Sungila, you must always post. You are unique, like Kurt. Hard to define. Like Kurt. And of value. Like Kurt.

Found on Tumblr, this has a lot of positive energy.

1F3D0583-D509-41ED-A5A2-393C2877BA08.jpg

By Oscar Romer

[Vegan Daddy]

I love the Classic X-Men series. I always thought Harry’s “Aye, and a handsome one it is, too” was a bit suggestive. If he’s gay that would explain why he’s so tolerant of ‘freaks’ like the X-Men.

[CRaymond]

BREAKING

Harry's Hideaway is a gay bar.

[Su_Whisterfield]

I love the Classic X-Men series. I always thought Harry’s “Aye, and a handsome one it is, too” was a bit suggestive. If he’s gay that would explain why he’s so tolerant of ‘freaks’ like the X-Men.

Well, it is Kurt’s tail he’s complementing. That tail deserves its own fan club.

[Su_Whisterfield]

I wrote a Drabble (a hundred word story). Quite pleased with it.

Just Do It

Charles looks at the invoice in his hand.
Three sweat bands $200
Custom vest $250
Custom leggings $300
And small stuff, chalk, wrappings, favourite protein powder.
It’s over $1000.

He looks down through the reinforced glass of the control booth.
Kurt moves smoothly through his routine, making it look trivial, effortless, easy.
Below, Peter and Scott have stopped sparring to watch.

Beside him, Moira crosses her arms, shakes her head.
“I’d give a million pounds, to see that laddie walk out and do that at the Olympics.”
Charles nods. “I know, me too.” He signs the invoice.
Worth every cent.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Elfwatch.
Free comic book day cover.

‘Tis very pretty.

A450DB27-26D8-4443-8269-8F2CEEC40B78.jpg

[cinnaminion]

Excite.

Crawler, Storm, Wolvie, Rogue, and then Illyana front and center. I like the looks of it. And Kurt's got a sword!

But not till May. So little Crawler content till spring... and spring is always so busy for me I may completely forget to pick it up. Oh the challenges of being a comic book fan when you're no longer twelve...

[Omnipitus]

I love the Classic X-Men series. I always thought Harry’s “Aye, and a handsome one it is, too” was a bit suggestive. If he’s gay that would explain why he’s so tolerant of ‘freaks’ like the X-Men.

I loved those back up stories in Classic X-Men. Between reading the issues that I was too young (and for the first year or so, not born yet) to get caught up on, and how Claremont fleshed out the characters while the team changed (Mutant Massacre), Classic X-Men was one of my favorite titles as a kid.

[Su_Whisterfield]

Elfwatch, guest appearance in Hellions issue one.
Still no sign of a regular gig, but his Giant Sized issue has been brought forward from April to March (swapped with the Magneto issue) so that’s a thing.


Anyway, here’s the Hellions art.

F22C5935-1DD9-449C-8290-DA951C4B165B.jpg

Still looks like he needs a square meal in him, bless.