Is Krakoa a fascist cult?

[JB]

Revolutionary_Jack gets it.

Stay tuned.

[Kisinith]

It's strongly hinted to us multiple times that Xavier hasn't entirely given up on his dream.

Go back to the final issues of HoX/PoX, where Xavier meets Namor. Namor pontificates about Krakoa and whether it implies that Xavier and the X-Men have finally decided they are better off. He then snarks that they're starting a train he long got off on, and tells Xavier to call Namor when he means it.

And in X-Men #4, Xavier tells Davos People that there's a part of him that will never give up on the dream.

To be honest, I think what Hickman is doing is similar to New Avenger/Avengers where he tests the values of the Illuminati -- Reed, T'Challa, Tony, Strange and all their big talk about acting for the greater good, by actually bringing them to the ultimately trolley problems. And in the end, they find they can't do it, and it ends up reconstructing their old ideal selves. To save the Multiverse, they needed to be Doctor Doom, and that seat is taken. What the heroes do is save the Multiverse from Doctor Doom since they can rebuild a world for everyone.


Here the X-Men are confronted likewise, with the ultimate test to the values, and it's a question of how far they will go, and how they will submit to that test. They are taking the awesome responsibility of a true mutant nation for everyone, the good mutants, the bad mutants, the ones in-between and they're gambling big and it's about what they do when things won't work their way. But for that to happen, you need to buy into why they think this is a good idea to start with.

I agree, I'm a fan of the Krakoan status and don't think Xavier has given up on his dream. The poster I was responding to challenged the authenticity of Xavier's beliefs so I want to flip the argument and see if the reverse holds up.

[loke13]

It's strongly hinted to us multiple times that Xavier hasn't entirely given up on his dream.

Go back to the final issues of HoX/PoX, where Xavier meets Namor. Namor pontificates about Krakoa and whether it implies that Xavier and the X-Men have finally decided they are better off. He then snarks that they're starting a train he long got off on, and tells Xavier to call Namor when he means it.

And in X-Men #4, Xavier tells Davos People that there's a part of him that will never give up on the dream.

To be honest, I think what Hickman is doing is similar to New Avenger/Avengers where he tests the values of the Illuminati -- Reed, T'Challa, Tony, Strange and all their big talk about acting for the greater good, by actually bringing them to the ultimately trolley problems. And in the end, they find they can't do it, and it ends up reconstructing their old ideal selves. To save the Multiverse, they needed to be Doctor Doom, and that seat is taken. What the heroes do is save the Multiverse from Doctor Doom since they can rebuild a world for everyone.


Here the X-Men are confronted likewise, with the ultimate test to the values, and it's a question of how far they will go, and how they will submit to that test. They are taking the awesome responsibility of a true mutant nation for everyone, the good mutants, the bad mutants, the ones in-between and they're gambling big and it's about what they do when things won't work their way. But for that to happen, you need to buy into why they think this is a good idea to start with.

This was a really great write up and one I agree with.

I kind of feel that Hickman is trying to subvert many of the tropes that have become the backbone for the X-Men franchise (for the good and detriment of the title) or at least. Mutant Nation? Been done before? But this time let's do it BIGGER. Dystopian future where the mutants lose? Been done before? But this time let's do it BIGGER. X-Men working with villains? Been done before? But this time let's do it BIGGER.

[Devaishwarya]

Yes to Kis. Yes to Rev. J yes to L13...yes yes yes!
Thanks for saving the X-Threads with your knowledge and varied but connective insights.

[loke13]

Yes to Kis. Yes to Rev. J yes to L13...yes yes yes!
Thanks for saving the X-Threads with your knowledge and varied but connective insights.

I can't help it lol I'm just so giddy about this DoX era hopefully that last into the next year or two because I really do believe that Hickman has brought some hope and optimism to the franchise that was sorely lacking these past years. I'm actually excited to read the X-Men again.

[Handsome men don't lose fights]

Good thing that’s just a hypothetical entirely constructed to undermine a point but nothing even remotely based in what we’ve been presented with.



It’s an allegory. But you’re also ignoring intersecting identities. You do know there are black and brown mutants too, right? It’s just like any other sector of marginalized identity. If you’re a gay mutant, you fave more oppression than a regular mutant. If you’re a black mutant, you face more discrimination than a black person or a mutant. But sure let’s act like this is brand new:

Intersectionality doesn't work as a defense because mutants are legitimately dangerous to others but black and lgbt people are persecuted for merely'appearing' dangerous. Even Bishop is a bad default, because he can blow **** up if the situation calls for it and does not have comply with police on fear of death like real black people do. Mutants are a power fantasy. They may face analogous discrimination, but they always come out on top. This is why real world comparisons should be applied with the lightest touch.

[Zelena]

I could be wrong but creating and selling drugs to cure cancer, cure dementia and extend human lives by up to five years for the low low cost of not murdering mutants and accepting the nation of Krakoa could be taken as a sign of love. I mean cancer alone kills close to 10 million people a year...

It could have been considered like a act of love… if they didn't use it as political leverage. It is not the point that the cost to use the drug is small: acts of love are selfless.

Furthermore, Charles Xavier and the X-Men have spent years proving the love they have for humanity, many literally dying for them. Spending three months (in universe) establishing a mutant nation and homeland somehow invalidates that?

Oh, yes, previously, they saved countless lives as super-heroes of the whole humanity (mutants and non-mutants). They certainly proved their generosity and courage. Just… for me, they don't feel the same anymore…

So let's flip the argument, where are the proofs that he doesn't?

Well, you don't say someone you love: "I will replace you" (Xavier) or "I'm superior to you" (Magneto, Xavier's right-arm).

[lam]

I would say no, really.

[JB]

I can't help it lol I'm just so giddy about this DoX era hopefully that last into the next year or two because I really do believe that Hickman has brought some hope and optimism to the franchise that was sorely lacking these past years. I'm actually excited to read the X-Men again.

And from the results of the polls, you are in the majority. Long live Krakoa!

[BroHomo]

Do ppl read Harry Potter (ughhh) and be like wow this is so racist to ppl who can't practice magic.

this whole dam thing is racist to folks who cant read

[Tycon]

Intersectionality doesn't work as a defense because mutants are legitimately dangerous to others but black and lgbt people are persecuted for merely'appearing' dangerous. Even Bishop is a bad default, because he can blow **** up if the situation calls for it and does not have comply with police on fear of death like real black people do. Mutants are a power fantasy. They may face analogous discrimination, but they always come out on top. This is why real world comparisons should be applied with the lightest touch.

What defense is “intersectionality”? I’m showing you ways that mutants get oppressed just for being mutant. Not every mutant is completely destructive with their powers yet are subject to being hunted down, experimented on, tortured, and worse just because of the X-Gene they possessed. Mutants have never truly been “on top,” because they literally just spent the last decade and a half trying to not go extinct. Unless I’m missing some new definition of that sort of expression, fighting for your survival against the worst odds after having numbers in the millions is nothing close to that.

[hulkling]

What defense is “intersectionality”? I’m showing you ways that mutants get oppressed just for being mutant. Not every mutant is completely destructive with their powers yet are subject to being hunted down, experimented on, tortured, and worse just because of the X-Gene they possessed. Mutants have never truly been “on top,” because they literally just spent the last decade and a half trying to not go extinct. Unless I’m missing some new definition of that sort of expression, fighting for your survival against the worst odds after having numbers in the millions is nothing close to that.

As much as I know the prejudice against X-Gene started with magneto, before him most people didn’t know that mutants existed, a few mutants could be discriminated by their appearance ( as humans have been discriminated) but the real racism and fear against them started when a terrorist proclaimed them as the superior race. I always have seen the mutants more similar to the Muslims than Lgtb. People never know if that friendly mutant next door will blow up the house as part of a supremacist attack .

[Zelena]

As much as I know the prejudice against X-Gene started with magneto, before him most people didn’t know that mutants existed, a few mutants could be discriminated by their appearance ( as humans have been discriminated) but the real racism and fear against them started when a terrorist proclaimed them as the superior race. I always have seen the mutants more similar to the Muslims than Lgtb. People never know if that friendly mutant next door will blow up the house as part of a supremacist attack .

I suppose that at first Magneto hasn't been taken very seriously because he has started with his superiority stuff from the first X-men issue. Weak coverage?

[BroHomo]

As much as I know the prejudice against X-Gene started with magneto, before him most people didn’t know that mutants existed, a few mutants could be discriminated by their appearance ( as humans have been discriminated) but the real racism and fear against them started when a terrorist proclaimed them as the superior race.

Welll You had mutants like Multiple Man....aka Killcrops being killed at birth....theres that whole Sentinels being built, and that was going on before Magneto. You dont know how the discrimination mutants endured caaaaausse the X-mythos starts at Xavier/Magneto

I always have seen the mutants more similar to the Muslims than Lgtb. People never know if that friendly mutant next door will blow up the house as part of a supremacist attack .

Whoa! Perhaps shouldn't lump a whole religion with a few extremists Not sure what country you're from but In America...'American str8 white Dudes' are the ones most likely to kill in a supremacist attack

[hulkling]

Welll You had mutants like Multiple Man....aka Killcrops being killed at birth....theres that whole Sentinels being built, and that was going on before Magneto. You dont know how the discrimination mutants endured caaaaausse the X-mythos starts at Xavier/Magneto
Whoa! Perhaps shouldn't lump a whole religion with a few extremists Not sure what country you're from but In America...'American str8 white Dudes' are the ones most likely to kill in a supremacist attack

Yeah I am from Europa, and of course I would never label a whole religion as terrorist, but here we had some attacks based in religion and the current prejudce is more driven by fear.

About the sentinels if I am right Trask created them because Larry showed him the future and he saw the brotherhood killing kelly. He didnt know anything about mutants but seeing them he though that they were an evil group that wanted to take over the world, after he saw that X-men were trying to help the humanity he tried to shut down the Sentinels but it was late.
About the Killcrops most I think Jamie was the only killcrops who was born in modern times, the other ones like tryp were ancient, they were mistaken with demons and other creatures. That was discrimination but not based in their X-gene , I mean people with porphyria were also mistaken with demons in the past.