Batgirl #42 Discussion

[KangMiRae]

So today's issue came out and I'm only making this because I want to see how anyone else who's been reading this feels about Babs and Jason Bard becoming a thing (again) and kissing?

A few people on Reddit are really upset and can't seem to get over Jason Bard doing some evil things, but I like Babs and Jason a lot. Overall though, I didn't like any aspect of the Oracle arc.

[Godlike13]

I don’t like new 52 Jason, but we were never suppose to like new 52 Jason. So I’m torn cause at the same time I respect that Jason Bard was one of Babs biggest love interest. It’s one of the reason I never like the new 52 take on him.

[Restingvoice]

Oh, that took me a second. I thought it's Todd and not Bard and was like... what

Is this Bard has the same history as New 52 Bard? Because some history has been rewritten for Rebirth like Tim, Jason, Superman...

[KangMiRae]

I don’t like new 52 Jason, but we were never suppose to like new 52 Jason. So I’m torn cause at the same time I respect that Jason Bard was one of Babs biggest love interest. It’s one of the reason I never like the new 52 take on him.

When it comes to love interests for Babs, it's always been Dick for me. It's like an unwritten law! However I don't mind two other ships that I have for her, but I know they're never to be taken seriously. That's why I like Jason Bard a lot, because, while he's nowhere near Dick's level of relevance as a love interest for Babs, he's not in the category as the other two people I like Babs with. Bard is much more realistic to happen and I like it. Obviously, long term, no one can compete with Dick since these two characters were written into each other over years and years and years of publication, but you get my point.

[Godlike13]

Oh, that took me a second. I thought it's Todd and not Bard and was like... what

Is this Bard has the same history as New 52 Bard? Because some history has been rewritten for Rebirth like Tim, Jason, Superman...

Ya, it’s new 52 Bard.

[KangMiRae]

Oh, that took me a second. I thought it's Todd and not Bard and was like... what

Is this Bard has the same history as New 52 Bard? Because some history has been rewritten for Rebirth like Tim, Jason, Superman...

I'm honestly struggling to remember a lot about Jason Bard from the N52, but I do know that post-Rebirth, this current Jason Bard tried to bomb a political campaign. That's a big reason some Batgirl fans don't want him with Babs, but I'm like, whatever, lol.

[Godlike13]

When it comes to love interests for Babs, it's always been Dick for me. It's like an unwritten law! However I don't mind two other ships that I have for her, but I know they're never to be taken seriously. That's why I like Jason Bard a lot, because, while he's nowhere near Dick's level of relevance as a love interest for Babs, he's not in the category as the other two people I like Babs with. Bard is much more realistic to happen and I like it. Obviously, long term, no one can compete with Dick since these two characters were written into each other over years and years and years of publication, but you get my point.

Both Babs and Dick struggle with new love interest because they are in way competing with Dick or Babs, that’s just a hard battle to win. Bard is one of the only love interest Babs has that can compete with Dick when it comes to history. He’s her Starfire so to speak. When the New 52 turned him into a villain, long term, it was only gonna bite Babs in the ass.

[KangMiRae]

Both Babs and Dick struggle with new love interest because they are in way competing with Dick or Babs, that’s just a hard battle to win. Bard is one of the only love interest Babs has that can compete with Dick when it comes to history. He’s her Starfire so to speak. When the New 52 turned him into a villain, long term, it was only gonna bite Babs in the ass.

Good comparison! Bard is Babs' Starfire. He's still kinda doing dirtbag things, but he's more humanized in his reasoning. Plus, plenty of love interests have been evil or done evil things before. I honestly hope that this goes somewhere for a while though. As much as I would love DickBabs, I know DC isn't giving that back to us for a while, so let Babs be with Bard then.

[Restingvoice]

Ya, it’s new 52 Bard.

What?! He destroyed the evidence that can prove Gordon's innocence! Dang right I don't want him near her

Although he did turn around later on and decided to lead the Gordon rescue party to Blackgate

I'm honestly struggling to remember a lot about Jason Bard from the N52, but I do know that post-Rebirth, this current Jason Bard tried to bomb a political campaign.

Oh nevermind, he's still ****.

[Digifiend]

Hopefully it's a stopgap, and she'll dump his ass as soon as a certain Boy Wonder gets his memory back.

[millernumber1]

I thought the Bard/Babs stuff was the only good thing about the issue. Well, that and Carmine's art (big fan of his). The writing was top tier stupid level "I'm going to do the dumbest possible thing because no one would expect that."

[voidox]

This was not a good issue as Bab's plan and train of thought in the fight, all just turned out stupid. The "being unpredictable" part was fine but that just blew up in her face. Also, why is Babs not wanting to sort out the whole Oracle-mess right now? Honestly the whole Oracle arc's been a mess and meh.

but w.e, I just want to focus on the Babs/Bard thing cause I absolutely hate this.... omg DC pls don't go through with this -_-

here's the thing, if this was pre-52 Jason Bard, fine, I would have no issue whatsoever with it.
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But unfortunately this is the new-52 Bard: he is a VILLAIN who has done some real bad **** and has gotten away with it all scott-free (for some reason), hell, has he ever even showed remorse or regret for what he did? :/

then he goes onto basically stalking babs and forcing his way onto her at any literally any chance he could, it came off extremely creepy and forced. Oh, and he hates Batgirl btw which also makes him a hypocrite after what he did.

as for Babs, nice character assassination here DC, you turned one of the smartest characters in DC.... into a total idiot. She has literally ignored all the **** Bard has done and has bought into his "good guy at the office". And then to make it even worse, Cecil had babs the one feeling "sorry for what she did to him"... what??? how has Babs not thought to look into that bombing Bard was involved with back in Batgirl #30, what he did to her father and doesn't think his past crimes make him potentially untrustworthy. How can she just trust him when he was with oracle and actively hating on Batgirl, how does she just blindly "trust the good guy at the office"?

I mean, it's not like the Batfamily is supposed to care about trivialities like justice or anything. Not like one of Barbaras most defining traits is her immense willpower and adherence to her principles... this all just isn't something Babs would do.

And Bard's simply done too much wrong to make the relationship make sense.
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And if you want to remove the **** he's done, what do they have in common exactly? How long have they known each other? Have they even spent an extended period of time with one another? I can't think of any time they have. Are we to believe Babs now has romantic feelings for him when she has not even remotely thought that way about him thus far? Did she even like the guy before this issue? Oh we had that one time she thought "his eyes were stunning" but what, that's meant to be love now? I mean, does she even know Bards likes her before kissing him cause that's how little she knows him -_-

honestly just feels like yet another time where DC cannot have Babs without a love interest for completely stupid reasons, which we got so much of during Burnside that it became ridiculous. And this one is made even worse as we know Dick is coming back and they've been teasing DickXBabs so wtf is even the point of Bard. As a redditor put it:

cause they think they can't tell a story if she doesn't have one. Because the drama of heroics getting in the way of a relationship isn't something we haven't seen from dozens of characters already. It's a shame, Scott and Simone did a good job of writing Babs without a boyfriend.

scott's run was also good in that he wrote a story that didn't require Babs dealing with more romance nonsense, just focused on Batgirl as her stories should be.

[millernumber1]

I would disagree that Bard got away scott free - he lost his job, admitted publicly what he did through Vicki's reporting, and was permanently injured by Batgirl. He's also shown remorse.

[KangMiRae]

I would disagree that Bard got away scott free - he lost his job, admitted publicly what he did through Vicki's reporting, and was permanently injured by Batgirl. He's also shown remorse.

Sometimes it's not enough for some readers. Not me though, I think Babs and Bard are cute together!

[voidox]

he lost his job, admitted publicly what he did through Vicki's reporting, and was permanently injured by Batgirl. He's also shown remorse.

Getting injured like that is nothing compared to all the collateral he caused in allying with Hush and doing bad ****: reminder here, part of that collateral were deaths of innocents. Him doing that article with Vicky hardly makes up for all the **** he did as commissioner.

You would think with all the **** he did he'd be in prison instead of Gordon, who btw, he framed for murder (Bard also destroyed evidence, i.e. another crime), but nah, he got off quite free there. And losing his job was hardly anything as Bard himself said (in chapter 52 of Batman Eternal) that there were a lot of jobs for ex-cops so it clearly wasn't any sort of an issue for him.

then comes to this arc where he's re-introduced being involved with a group that resulted in a riot that got people hurt. Then they detonated a bomb at the rally. You don't get excused from being a part of that just cause he didn't pull the trigger or his personal plan was different and he didn't expect the violence. And even then, he doesn't take his investigation findings to the police, nah he uses it for getting a job and political play for his boss. If he was an undercover cop it would be a different story, but he wasn't.

So he got off scott-free here as Babs is written like an idiot who just forgets to investigate any of that or his involvement and just buys his story right off, something quite against her character :/

and remorse? has he really show remorse? cause he's still hating vigilantes (Batgirl) and I can't find an issue where he at least properly apologises to Jim or Babs for what he did to them (you know, the whole destroying evidence and framing for murder). I mean, when Bard meets Babs in chapter 30, his reply to Babs bringing up how he framed Jim for his job was: I played dirty cause the city is dirty -_- wat? you didnt play dirty mate, you committed crimes and caused deaths, that's way more than "playing dirty". He doesn't seem remorseful at all.

Sure he's trying to do good now and he talks about it, but that's hardly worth much for what he has to show for it against what he's done.
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and again, back to this issue, Babs decides to literally force herself to forgive him (I want to say no but I have to say yes, wtf is this line?) and trust him for reasons that even she can't explain (why exactly does she have to forget and forgive?). She admits to going against her instincts, and then Castellucci even makes Babs feel guilty about Bard's leg despite all the **** Bard was doing when that happened (are heroes now meant to feel guilty about hurting villains?)... i.e. it's all BS, forced and something Babs would never do, she's too smart a character for this nonsense.

and he STILL is hating on Batgirl right to her face even in this chapter... like what is Babs doing just ignoring that? -_-

So we're meant to believe that she now completely trusts and forgives him (and doesn't care that he hates Batgirl) in a matter of a literal hour or so such that she decides to kiss him instead of shaking his hand or something like that? like wat??? so she's now in love with him? From not even liking/distrusting the guy (they weren't even friends despite working together) to kissing him and even in the kiss, thinking "what am I going to do"?

everything about this relationship and Bard's redemption was just so rushed, forced and poorly written. The fact that the huge majority of people who still read this comic, hate this development and Bard, clearly shows that -_- haven't even gotten into how the whole oracle arc itself was pretty meh and underwhelming~

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Sometimes it's not enough for some readers. Not me though, I think Babs and Bard are cute together!

that's cause it literally is not enough

the issue comes down to how so many people have said it to be: new-52 Bard was a villain who got off pretty much scott-free (he should've gone to jail for what he did)... and his "rehabilitation" has been very rushed and way too little for what he's done. And again, he STILL hates vigilantes so he's just a hypocrite.

I really don't see how you think they're cute together. Let's go ahead and ignore all this **** Bard's done for a second: the rest of his time related to Babs, has been spent basically stalking her (getting her address, showing up to her place, constantly asking only about her and so on) and forcing his way onto her at literally any chance and way he could. It really came off as creepy especially when Babs was clearly never interested or even friends with him.