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  1. #1291
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMikey View Post
    However I'd like to ask Gambit/Rogue fans, what would YOU all want to see in their developing relationship?
    Sorry another thought (so many), but Rogue should have more empathy for Gambit as being the outsider and not trusted by the team. She herself came in as a former villain and wasn't trusted or wanted by the X-Men at first. She did some really bad things and hurt people on purpose. So she shouldn't be so judgemental towards Gambit. I always found that to be a bad take on her. Her ability to absorb thoughts, memories, etc should give her more perspective and empathy than she is often portrayed with in comics. Not that she isn't hard-minded and stubborn, as that's her personality. And I would also think Gambit should see her as somewhat aspirational, not so much as wanting to BE her or to put her on a pedestal, as to do what she accomplished in gaining the trust and acceptance from the team. I could see him seeking advice from her on how she won them over, asking her what the "trick" was, thinking he could find a shortcut.

  2. #1292
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Yay! Glad you came over.

    Some things I think comics missed out on early on in their relationship was showing WHY they were drawn to each other outside of just physical attraction. (Not that that is insignificant.) I've actually seen this tackled better in fan fiction and even in X-Men Evolution. Both of them were rejected by their biological families for being mutants and adopted into families that, however loving, wanted to utilize them for their powers. So they both struggle with the notion that love is contractual and have trust issues. Also they are both from the South and lower socioeconomic backgrounds. Rogue was a runaway. Gambit grew up on the street. The major difference being age at independence and rural versus urban settings. They both long for belonging and family. So I'd like to see this in building up their relationship.

    Part of what makes them enjoyable as a couple is their push and pull. They challenge each other. They banter, they tease. Gambit challenges Rogue to take risks and buck the status quo, particularly with respect to her powers. Rogue challenges Gambit to think more globally, to be more heroic and selfless. They should always have a little salt to their sweet.

    As for physical attraction, these two have so much electricity and that needs to come through. They are both temptations to each other. For Gambit, Rogue is a huge challenge, a girl that won't be easily charmed and won over. For Rogue, Gambit is a delectable and all too willing victim, a man who could have anyone else but wants her. I think what critics miss out on is that Rogue WANTS to be touched. She desires the physical interactions that other people have. I understand all too well that many women personally experience too much unwanted attention from men and so to them Gambit's advances toward Rogue may feel predatory because that's their experience. They probably don't know how it feels to be totally ignored though. And Rogue isn't vulnerable like a typical woman. She's invulnerable, basically untouchable. I see a woman who is extremely lonely, who pushes people away out of fear for their own safety, and hence who people then avoid trying to get close to. But she's not happy like this. Nobody is brave enough to get in her space and call this out and push her to challenge herself. Rogue is very black and white about touch, leaving no room for gray space. But we see her express attraction to fellow teammates (Colossus, Longshot) on panel and openly flirt with Gambit in their first interaction on panel. It's when he responds and flirts right back that she balks. She wasn't expecting him to not fear her and he wasn't expecting her to be so fearful.

    There are also key moments early on when Rogue calls Gambit out on not taking their interactions seriously. He is playful, noncommittal, and to him everything is a game. Because of the potential consequences, Rogue takes it all extremely seriously. But when she challenges him on this, though he is at first taken aback, he responds by stepping up to her challenge and shows he is serious about her. This is the blanket on the roof scene and fairly pivotal - Uncanny X-Men #297. Another is in X-Men #24. He wants to kiss her and states he's willing to take the risk, even knowing the potential consequences. She wants to kiss him too, but is too scared of hurting him. He backs off and respects her wishes. This demonstrates Gambit is a character that does understand consent and isn't trying to take anything she isn't willing to give. It also shows that Rogue does have physical desires, just that fear keeps her from acting on them. I would definitely keep those two issues in mind.
    This is very well said. I tried to bring up some of these things in the think tank thread but this was just way better said. Specifically that Rogue is the X factor. Its Rogues needs specifically that makes it different than what other girls might think about Gambit. It's her individual personality and what she personally wants and needs that makes it something unique. If you put Gambits advances on other girls it doesn't always come off the same. Her rejections are usually about fear of hurting him not rejecting she's attracted to him. She banters by calling him a swamp rat and she sometimes makes him chase her a little extra but the best thing is that's hes willing to go the extra mile to be with her. It's the slightest bit toxic but in a way that is harmonious and unique.

    Also I like the word "noncommittal" about Gambits flirting. Gambit flirts with a lot of people but it's not necessarily an indication he wants do pursue them specifically. Gambit as a theif has developed very good emotional intelligence and can read things well. Like knowing how to disarm Rogue when she was mad about getting hit with a pie by just laughing. He likes to test people and push people a bit. His flirting is a skill that he employs all the time. But it's not totally who he is. His flirting is kinda like his Bruce Wayne side a bit, it's necessary to who he is but he has so much more going on as well. He even flirts girls while with Rogue but like I said the flirting itself isn't an indication of pursual. He indicates pursual through the longevity that he focuses on someone. One off flirting is something he does with a lot of people. Or maybe flirting is the wrong word. Just general smiling charm

    Rogue is strong enough to directly punch through Remy's defenses. And Remy is suave enough to slip past Rogue's. It's s dance they have, it's intricate and has many facets.

  3. #1293
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Yay! Glad you came over.

    Some things I think comics missed out on early on in their relationship was showing WHY they were drawn to each other outside of just physical attraction. (Not that that is insignificant.) I've actually seen this tackled better in fan fiction and even in X-Men Evolution. Both of them were rejected by their biological families for being mutants and adopted into families that, however loving, wanted to utilize them for their powers. So they both struggle with the notion that love is contractual and have trust issues. Also they are both from the South and lower socioeconomic backgrounds. Rogue was a runaway. Gambit grew up on the street. The major difference being age at independence and rural versus urban settings. They both long for belonging and family. So I'd like to see this in building up their relationship.

    Part of what makes them enjoyable as a couple is their push and pull. They challenge each other. They banter, they tease. Gambit challenges Rogue to take risks and buck the status quo, particularly with respect to her powers. Rogue challenges Gambit to think more globally, to be more heroic and selfless. They should always have a little salt to their sweet.

    As for physical attraction, these two have so much electricity and that needs to come through. They are both temptations to each other. For Gambit, Rogue is a huge challenge, a girl that won't be easily charmed and won over. For Rogue, Gambit is a delectable and all too willing victim, a man who could have anyone else but wants her. I think what critics miss out on is that Rogue WANTS to be touched. She desires the physical interactions that other people have. I understand all too well that many women personally experience too much unwanted attention from men and so to them Gambit's advances toward Rogue may feel predatory because that's their experience. They probably don't know how it feels to be totally ignored though. And Rogue isn't vulnerable like a typical woman. She's invulnerable, basically untouchable. I see a woman who is extremely lonely, who pushes people away out of fear for their own safety, and hence who people then avoid trying to get close to. But she's not happy like this. Nobody is brave enough to get in her space and call this out and push her to challenge herself. Rogue is very black and white about touch, leaving no room for gray space. But we see her express attraction to fellow teammates (Colossus, Longshot) on panel and openly flirt with Gambit in their first interaction on panel. It's when he responds and flirts right back that she balks. She wasn't expecting him to not fear her and he wasn't expecting her to be so fearful.

    There are also key moments early on when Rogue calls Gambit out on not taking their interactions seriously. He is playful, noncommittal, and to him everything is a game. Because of the potential consequences, Rogue takes it all extremely seriously. But when she challenges him on this, though he is at first taken aback, he responds by stepping up to her challenge and shows he is serious about her. This is the blanket on the roof scene and fairly pivotal - Uncanny X-Men #297. Another is in X-Men #24. He wants to kiss her and states he's willing to take the risk, even knowing the potential consequences. She wants to kiss him too, but is too scared of hurting him. He backs off and respects her wishes. This demonstrates Gambit is a character that does understand consent and isn't trying to take anything she isn't willing to give. It also shows that Rogue does have physical desires, just that fear keeps her from acting on them. I would definitely keep those two issues in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Sorry another thought (so many), but Rogue should have more empathy for Gambit as being the outsider and not trusted by the team. She herself came in as a former villain and wasn't trusted or wanted by the X-Men at first. She did some really bad things and hurt people on purpose. So she shouldn't be so judgemental towards Gambit. I always found that to be a bad take on her. Her ability to absorb thoughts, memories, etc should give her more perspective and empathy than she is often portrayed with in comics. Not that she isn't hard-minded and stubborn, as that's her personality. And I would also think Gambit should see her as somewhat aspirational, not so much as wanting to BE her or to put her on a pedestal, as to do what she accomplished in gaining the trust and acceptance from the team. I could see him seeking advice from her on how she won them over, asking her what the "trick" was, thinking he could find a shortcut.
    I'm glad to finally come over here!

    You made so many good points, I'll have to come back on it (been answering msgs all morning lol)

  4. #1294
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    This is very well said. I tried to bring up some of these things in the think tank thread but this was just way better said. Specifically that Rogue is the X factor. Its Rogues needs specifically that makes it different than what other girls might think about Gambit. It's her individual personality and what she personally wants and needs that makes it something unique. If you put Gambits advances on other girls it doesn't always come off the same. Her rejections are usually about fear of hurting him not rejecting she's attracted to him. She banters by calling him a swamp rat and she sometimes makes him chase her a little extra but the best thing is that's hes willing to go the extra mile to be with her. It's the slightest bit toxic but in a way that is harmonious and unique.

    Also I like the word "noncommittal" about Gambits flirting. Gambit flirts with a lot of people but it's not necessarily an indication he wants do pursue them specifically. Gambit as a theif has developed very good emotional intelligence and can read things well. Like knowing how to disarm Rogue when she was mad about getting hit with a pie by just laughing. He likes to test people and push people a bit. His flirting is a skill that he employs all the time. But it's not totally who he is. His flirting is kinda like his Bruce Wayne side a bit, it's necessary to who he is but he has so much more going on as well. He even flirts girls while with Rogue but like I said the flirting itself isn't an indication of pursual. He indicates pursual through the longevity that he focuses on someone. One off flirting is something he does with a lot of people. Or maybe flirting is the wrong word. Just general smiling charm

    Rogue is strong enough to directly punch through Remy's defenses. And Remy is suave enough to slip past Rogue's. It's s dance they have, it's intricate and has many facets.
    All true. Like I said in the previous comment, I'll come back to this shortly :P

  5. #1295
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Yeah I think dance is a good way to put it!

    Other free floating thoughts on them ...

    Gambit is not at all intimidated by the fact Rogue is physically stronger than him and could mop the floor with him. A guy has to be pretty secure in his masculinity to not be bothered by that. If anything he seems to be drawn to women that are strong (thinking also of Belladonna) and likes a girl that will go toe to toe with him. So when Rogue chucks him out of the car in XTAS, he's only more smitten with her.

    Try to imagine this same scenario with Scott and Jean. It never happens. Scott won't tease or badger Jean to push her buttons. If she did throw him out, Scott is definitely going to sit on the ground and pout or assume she's lost her marbles. But Jean wouldn't ever throw him out because she's just too good and nice ... well unless she's Phoenix. LOL

    As for Rogue, it's also important to note that she is fairly intimidated by Gambit in one arena and that's his fairly extensive experience in relationships compared to her relative inexperience.
    Last edited by AppleJ; 09-27-2020 at 02:38 PM.

  6. #1296
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Yeah I think dance is a good way to put it!

    Other free floating thoughts on them ...

    Gambit is not at all intimidated by the fact Rogue is physically stronger than him and could mop the floor with him. A guy has to be pretty secure in his masculinity to not be bothered by that. If anything he seems to be drawn to women that are strong (thinking also of Belladonna) and likes a girl that will go toe to toe with him. So when Rogue chucks him out of the car in XTAS, he's only more smitten with her.

    Try to imagine this same scenario with Scott and Jean. It never happens. Scott won't tease or badger Jean to push her buttons. If she did throw him out, Scott is definitely going to sit on the ground and pout or assume she's lost her marbles. But Jean wouldn't ever throw him out because she's just too good and nice ... well unless she's Phoenix. LOL

    As for Rogue, it's also important to note that she is fairly intimidated by Gambit in one arena and that's his fairly extensive experience in relationships compared to her relative inexperience.
    I agree Gambit does not care Rogue is physically stronger though I think partially it's because he puts zero value in brute strength, due to his skills he views straight strength as a weakness. Similar to how he views security systems. If something is really strong but very straight forward then he believes it's beatable. I do strength he does love about her is her willpower and conviction. For me I think Rogues power is in her absorption power and I think that's the power Gambit respects the most. It's not brute force it's kinda subtle just like his thieving and it also is the power that puts the biggest obstacle to him. I think Gambit feels he could beat anyone if he wanted to. He stupidly cocky. But there is no magic key when it comes to Rogues absorption. It's something that will always be there and he loves that it makes her so powerful yet also gives him continued opportunities to try to find deeper ways to connect with her.

    i definitely agree he 100% he would not care if Rogue is stronger. I do also think he thinks the stronger the better.

  7. #1297
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Yay! Glad you came over.

    Some things I think comics missed out on early on in their relationship was showing WHY they were drawn to each other outside of just physical attraction. (Not that that is insignificant.) I've actually seen this tackled better in fan fiction and even in X-Men Evolution. Both of them were rejected by their biological families for being mutants and adopted into families that, however loving, wanted to utilize them for their powers. So they both struggle with the notion that love is contractual and have trust issues. Also they are both from the South and lower socioeconomic backgrounds. Rogue was a runaway. Gambit grew up on the street. The major difference being age at independence and rural versus urban settings. They both long for belonging and family. So I'd like to see this in building up their relationship.

    Part of what makes them enjoyable as a couple is their push and pull. They challenge each other. They banter, they tease. Gambit challenges Rogue to take risks and buck the status quo, particularly with respect to her powers. Rogue challenges Gambit to think more globally, to be more heroic and selfless. They should always have a little salt to their sweet.

    As for physical attraction, these two have so much electricity and that needs to come through. They are both temptations to each other. For Gambit, Rogue is a huge challenge, a girl that won't be easily charmed and won over. For Rogue, Gambit is a delectable and all too willing victim, a man who could have anyone else but wants her. I think what critics miss out on is that Rogue WANTS to be touched. She desires the physical interactions that other people have. I understand all too well that many women personally experience too much unwanted attention from men and so to them Gambit's advances toward Rogue may feel predatory because that's their experience. They probably don't know how it feels to be totally ignored though. And Rogue isn't vulnerable like a typical woman. She's invulnerable, basically untouchable. I see a woman who is extremely lonely, who pushes people away out of fear for their own safety, and hence who people then avoid trying to get close to. But she's not happy like this. Nobody is brave enough to get in her space and call this out and push her to challenge herself. Rogue is very black and white about touch, leaving no room for gray space. But we see her express attraction to fellow teammates (Colossus, Longshot) on panel and openly flirt with Gambit in their first interaction on panel. It's when he responds and flirts right back that she balks. She wasn't expecting him to not fear her and he wasn't expecting her to be so fearful.

    There are also key moments early on when Rogue calls Gambit out on not taking their interactions seriously. He is playful, noncommittal, and to him everything is a game. Because of the potential consequences, Rogue takes it all extremely seriously. But when she challenges him on this, though he is at first taken aback, he responds by stepping up to her challenge and shows he is serious about her. This is the blanket on the roof scene and fairly pivotal - Uncanny X-Men #297. Another is in X-Men #24. He wants to kiss her and states he's willing to take the risk, even knowing the potential consequences. She wants to kiss him too, but is too scared of hurting him. He backs off and respects her wishes. This demonstrates Gambit is a character that does understand consent and isn't trying to take anything she isn't willing to give. It also shows that Rogue does have physical desires, just that fear keeps her from acting on them. I would definitely keep those two issues in mind.
    Those are awesome points, and the writers on our project have discussed in depth the subtlely in their attraction to each other, and how their relationship is fully character AND narrative driven. There are quite a few similarities in their lives and how they became who they are. Their personal struggles, also gives them a relatable factor for each other as characters, but the audience as well. A good number of our focus group members have asked for Gambit and Rogue to be the central pair, because of these factors. We would defintely get some GOOD gradual development of their relationship.

    The issue with comic writers is not understanding their own characters, and fans I feel have better insight, because we're actually relating to their attributes with ourselves in one way or another. This means, we as fans view them in the light of actual people, where these comic writers are just writing about comic characters. That I feel causes their detachment (wrong word), and disconnect (much better) to understanding Gambit and Rogue's relationship.

    Remy does a lot to woo Rogue, in which she just see it as him flirting with her, like he does everyone else... however, she starts to realize she is different for him, when she starts realizing how much he's there braking her barriers (or boundaries), and she's finding herself more and more, through him. Its when he went out and bought her a beautiful and bracelet (special event Xavier did) and asked her to be his princess that night, she knew he actually felt for her (despite her initally telling him off lol). But we'd get to see Rogue masks her feelings, sorrow for not being able to touch, hold hands and have that bond like Scott and Jean, and how Remy winds up remedying that, AND making her feel wanted and special... even as she doesn't want to admit she loves how he teases and gets overly flirty lol

    That point about him being noncommittal is actually a good idea to bring out about him, early early on. This would force him to reevaluate, and really think about Rogue and examine his true feelings for her, and realize they do have a bond, and shouldn't play with something that precious.

  8. #1298
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Yeah I think dance is a good way to put it!

    Other free floating thoughts on them ...

    Gambit is not at all intimidated by the fact Rogue is physically stronger than him and could mop the floor with him. A guy has to be pretty secure in his masculinity to not be bothered by that. If anything he seems to be drawn to women that are strong (thinking also of Belladonna) and likes a girl that will go toe to toe with him. So when Rogue chucks him out of the car in XTAS, he's only more smitten with her.

    Try to imagine this same scenario with Scott and Jean. It never happens. Scott won't tease or badger Jean to push her buttons. If she did throw him out, Scott is definitely going to sit on the ground and pout or assume she's lost her marbles. But Jean wouldn't ever throw him out because she's just too good and nice ... well unless she's Phoenix. LOL

    As for Rogue, it's also important to note that she is fairly intimidated by Gambit in one arena and that's his fairly extensive experience in relationships compared to her relative inexperience.
    This. I think Gambit is kind of proud (in a way) to have a wife who could totally kick his ass if she wanted to. I think he respects strong women like that (I mean, look at Laura and Storm, who were in his groom's party).

    To add onto your point about Gambit's experience with relationships, I could also see Rogue being a little intimidated with how Gambit can establish/carry a relationship, romantic or not. I know he has his own baggage, but he seems pretty comfortable and easy-going when it comes to just being friendly with his teammates whereas Rogue can be kind of guarded imo.
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  9. #1299
    Mighty Member Hi-Fi's Avatar
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    Rogue, Belladonna, Candra, Storm, Frenzy. Gambit had no time for the damsel in distress type.

  10. #1300
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Fi View Post
    Rogue, Belladonna, Candra, Storm, Frenzy. Gambit had no time for the damsel in distress type.
    Yup. Exactly
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  11. #1301
    Fantastic Member GMikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    This. I think Gambit is kind of proud (in a way) to have a wife who could totally kick his ass if she wanted to. I think he respects strong women like that (I mean, look at Laura and Storm, who were in his groom's party).

    To add onto your point about Gambit's experience with relationships, I could also see Rogue being a little intimidated with how Gambit can establish/carry a relationship, romantic or not. I know he has his own baggage, but he seems pretty comfortable and easy-going when it comes to just being friendly with his teammates whereas Rogue can be kind of guarded imo.
    That's actually good to show Rogue actually being intimidated by Gambit's flirtatiousness at first, and even as she masks it with knocking him around, its a different way to express such interplay of emotions and interaction.

  12. #1302
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Fi View Post
    Rogue, Belladonna, Candra, Storm, Frenzy. Gambit had no time for the damsel in distress type.
    Exactly. 10 char

  13. #1303
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Fi View Post
    Rogue, Belladonna, Candra, Storm, Frenzy. Gambit had no time for the damsel in distress type.
    Exactly. I would add Joelle to this list as well.

    Genevieve ... she was more of a mark and didn't come across as a difficult one either. I think she was more of a regret than a love interest, like he felt guilty about using her once he got close to her.

  14. #1304
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    https://mobile.twitter.com/marcusto/...05469510877184

    Remeber that tweet by Marcus To with Rictor and Gambit for issue 16 I suppose?
    Reunited and it feels so good.

    Spoilers below.
    Rictor probably won't survive next issue of X-Factor that is part of X of Swords crossover.

    Do you think that Remy just welcomes him from dead or Gambit was ressurected too?

  15. #1305
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    https://mobile.twitter.com/marcusto/...05469510877184

    Remeber that tweet by Marcus To with Rictor and Gambit for issue 16 I suppose?
    Reunited and it feels so good.

    Spoilers below.
    Rictor probably won't survive next issue of X-Factor that is part of X of Swords crossover.

    Do you think that Remy just welcomes him from dead or Gambit was ressurected too?
    I'm still assuming the Excalibur team is largely sidelined for this event? So maybe it's just Rictor returning from resurrection or healing?

    Or maybe it's To being reunited with the characters after taking a break from drawing them during Swords?

    No idea. I feel like it means we won't see a lot of them for a while which makes me frown.

    How does anyone feel about Gambit or Rogue dying and being resurrected in this era?

    Somehow I can't say I would feel great about it. The characters don't seem themselves when they come back and I'm already tired of cheap deaths when death has no real meaning or apparent consequences.

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