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  1. #211
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparta View Post
    That's how it read to me as well.
    For me, the dialogue in the tub seems to be there for added drama.
    Or Rogue is just the new mutant equivalent of representation for the child-free movement and the issue of body autonomy?

    Seems like a tasteless way to add drama, but you very well could be right.

  2. #212
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinman View Post
    Am I the only one that thinks that these two would be the only two individuals that would actually still read enjoyably as parents? Like, them rescuing their child after being captured or taken would be the comic book of alllll comic books. It would be incredible. I feel as though they have such strong personalities, they wouldn't lose themselves with the right writer. Tini is doing a pretty terrible job with their voices. That panel... ugh, Rogue hasn't been that cold since the late 90's
    Yes! I think they would be extremely fun as parents in so many ways. Lots of story potential to explore there, but I guess we may never know now and that's very frustrating.

    When I think of other X-Men, I can't think of any who have really expressed much desire to be parents, even those with kids. Probably doubly why this is frustrating.

  3. #213
    Dazed and Confused Neko's Avatar
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    Its too much about Rogue.
    "My superpower? I'm irresistible to women." Gambit- ANXF #9
    Gambit's kittens: Oliver, Lucifer and Figaro: Oliver and Company.

  4. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neko View Post
    Its too much about Rogue.
    It is, in this book Gambit is just a side character in the Rogue and Excalibur story.

    His personality is: Rogue
    His drive is: Rogue

    He has lost all that makes him his own character, he mainly just jumps around in the background during battle scenes.

  5. #215
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    That tub scene was sexy if nothing else. I love how To draws Rogue's hair. I could have stood a bit more heft to Remy's cakes but....I'd rather that rendered by Clay Mann. haha

  6. #216
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    That tub scene was sexy if nothing else. I love how To draws Rogue's hair. I could have stood a bit more heft to Remy's cakes but....I'd rather that rendered by Clay Mann. haha
    If you follow Twitter, sounds like the original versions had significantly less shadowing. I do at least appreciate that we got such a gorgeous scene, even if I didn't like to what ends it was used for.

    But yeah, that Clay Mann art will always be up there as a favorite rendition.

  7. #217
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Well, in other news ... KT's Captain Marvel: The End story looks like it may feature a future relation of Rogue's. (Remember The End stories are not 616 canon per se, more What If/AU). Go check it out for fun speculation and that beautiful Carmen Carnero art.

    https://twitter.com/79SemiFinalist/s...433724928?s=19

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neko View Post
    Its too much about Rogue.
    Quote Originally Posted by CityofAngels View Post
    It is, in this book Gambit is just a side character in the Rogue and Excalibur story.

    His personality is: Rogue
    His drive is: Rogue

    He has lost all that makes him his own character, he mainly just jumps around in the background during battle scenes.
    I agree. While I’m a fan of Rogue’s and I wonder if she’s getting so much air time because she was in flower coffin for a few issues – ultimately I want more Gambit. And where he is doing something other than worrying about Rogue and is way more effective in the field and in his work. His not a one-beat character and I’d like us to stop playing him like he is. Maybe it’s because it’s a team book? Very limited time to make characters dynamic and one-track minded? Mind you, Gambit was suspicious of [A] before his concern got mixed in with Rogue, so there’s that? I don’t know.

    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Yes! I think they would be extremely fun as parents in so many ways. Lots of story potential to explore there, but I guess we may never know now and that's very frustrating.
    When I think of other X-Men, I can't think of any who have really expressed much desire to be parents, even those with kids. Probably doubly why this is frustrating.
    That’s exactly why I find this so frustrating as well. So much more than other characters, Rogue and Gambit have had moments where they discuss wanting a family and kids.

    But I’ve been thinking this over and perhaps this development could make sense? Although Rogue could have always secretly dreamed of having a husband, kids and a family, it’s possible that she never seriously considered and entertained the idea. Because it wasn’t really a possibility then. Now, it is a big possibility (marriage-wise, Kraokoa island magic and leadership being onboard) and when push comes to shove, she isn’t sure if this is something she wants yet – especially with fully understanding how difficult the process would be. In her dream, she is a lab rat (which we know she hates at all costs) and the working theory is that she, her baby or both could die. For someone like Rogue, I could see her weighing her options and blatantly telling her husband that there is a strong possibility she might not even want kids. Asserting her right to choose. She doesn’t want a baby and now isn’t sure if she’ll ever want one. And this was his opportunity to tell her how he feels about her realization, which is that he wants only her and respects it’s her body.

    I’ve always known I wanted kids (more than one). But my first pregnancy was so difficult and followed a long stay for baby in the NICU. Although I knew I’d eventually have another child, I unconsciously delayed it as long as possible. When I found out I was pregnant with number two, I just then realized how terrified I was. Everything became real. Didn’t realize the PTSD I had from the first baby experience (because I buried everything so deep). Couldn’t stop crying because the first time was so traumatic and I wasn’t sure how baby #2 and me could survive the next 9 months. Luckily, everything worked out with my kids, but it was so hard (with a lot of monitoring, intervention, worrying…), I can understand the feeling of wanting to avoid all that. So for someone who possibly never seriously considered kids, I guess I can see this moment of considering a life without one understanding after fully appreciating the gravity of how difficult the process could be of having them and worrying the whole time if you or your baby would survive.

    However, I will agree that if this is the case, it would have been nice to have some acknowledgment in Rogue’s explanation that her stance may have shifted (as mentioned in this thread). Because it comes out of left field and is a complete 180 from recent books. Once again, team book not giving characters the opportunity to really explain themselves?

    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
    I am guessing Rogue will get pregnant sooner rather than later. No real point in having that dialogue unless the opposite actually happens. So seems more to me like Rogue says she doesn't want a child and omg she ends up getting pregnant.
    If this really was the purpose of this conversation – to set up drama for a pregnancy story, then it really isn’t needed. You could have enough drama with worrying if Rogue and the baby will survive rather than I’m angry I’m pregnant because I’ve never wanted kids although my history begs to differ. Instead of sympathizing with the character, I’m moreso wondering who the heck she is.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Well, in other news ... KT's Captain Marvel: The End story looks like it may feature a future relation of Rogue's. (Remember The End stories are not 616 canon per se, more What If/AU). Go check it out for fun speculation and that beautiful Carmen Carnero art.

    https://twitter.com/79SemiFinalist/s...433724928?s=19
    Okay I checked it out. I love KT. I really do!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    That tub scene was sexy if nothing else. I love how To draws Rogue's hair. I could have stood a bit more heft to Remy's cakes but....I'd rather that rendered by Clay Mann. haha
    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    If you follow Twitter, sounds like the original versions had significantly less shadowing. I do at least appreciate that we got such a gorgeous scene, even if I didn't like to what ends it was used for.

    But yeah, that Clay Mann art will always be up there as a favorite rendition.
    Yes! Arguably one of the sexiest and most beautifully drawn scenes between Gambit and Rogue. I can't rebuttal that.
    Last edited by LegoLiz; 01-23-2020 at 08:47 AM.

  10. #220
    Incredible Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muffinman View Post
    Am I the only one that thinks that these two would be the only two individuals that would actually still read enjoyably as parents? Like, them rescuing their child after being captured or taken would be the comic book of alllll comic books. It would be incredible. I feel as though they have such strong personalities, they wouldn't lose themselves with the right writer. Tini is doing a pretty terrible job with their voices. That panel... ugh, Rogue hasn't been that cold since the late 90's
    I'm with you. It could be really fun seeing Gambit try to teach their kid how to pick a lock or cheat at cards (to Rogue's disapproval) or them wanting Rogue to fly them around. And that's just day-to-day stuff. I could totally see a very interesting story like you said of Rogue and Gambit having to rescue their kid. Just thinking of Rogue go pissed-off mama bear makes me happy
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  11. #221
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    Reposting my thoughts about Rogue and Gambit from the Excalibur review thread:

    Rogue and Gambit are unbearable in this book, when a writer makes you hate your favorites characters, you know things are beyond bad.

    First, I think it's too soon for them to have a baby, I don't want to see it happening so quickly and even less so under Tini's awful writing. So I for one, I'd be glad if it doesn't happen yet, I'm open to the idea in the future as long as it is well written (which let's face it won't happen with Howard in charge). But given Tini's fanfic style of writing I wouldn't rule the pregnancy out yet, she might be going for a surprise+drama situation.

    That said and leaving all the speculation aside, the way she handled that conversation left me with the impression that Rogue is much closer to a stance of "I never want to have kids" than something along the lines of "not right now, I'm not ready, but in the future is possible" and I actually disliked that very much. It always seemed to me that starting a family is something both, as individuals characters, would want, seem quite out of character for Rogue to say that.

    Talking about Rogue, she seems cold and uncaring towards Gambit making it all the more jarring given that Gambit acts in the exact opposite way. That difference makes Gambit look completely emasculated and just pathetic.

    Tini's Gambit is so bad that it's hard to believe that the editors allowed this to be printed, I mean this is not Gambit, I don't know who this guy is but it is not the Gambit that I know and love. Gambit has charm, confidence, charisma and a witty sense of humor but this guy has none of that. What's worst is that he doesn't have any personal agency, everything revolves around Rogue, even during the baby talk he doesn't even state his own opinion. Does he want a child or not? What are his desires besides his wife well being? Would the love for her wife be enough to stay with her even if he really wants to start a family and have kids? Come on Tini, give us at least some introspection! SOMETHING! ANYTHING!

  12. #222
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    I would love to stop seeing fanfic treated as a derogatory term. While yes it's largely work by amateur hobbyists, I've read stories than can run circles around an average comic book. Besides that there are many professional writers who got their start that way, some who are very successful and award winning writers today, some of whom are writers you have probably praised on this very forum. Just food for thought.

  13. #223
    Incredible Member rogueisbae's Avatar
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    The hot tub scene..... that’s going to be the very same night they conceive the baby that she didn’t want right?

  14. #224
    Dazed and Confused Neko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    I would love to stop seeing fanfic treated as a derogatory term. While yes it's largely work by amateur hobbyists, I've read stories than can run circles around an average comic book. Besides that there are many professional writers who got their start that way, some who are very successful and award winning writers today, some of whom are writers you have probably praised on this very forum. Just food for thought.
    I agree. There are other problems with fanfic too.
    "My superpower? I'm irresistible to women." Gambit- ANXF #9
    Gambit's kittens: Oliver, Lucifer and Figaro: Oliver and Company.

  15. #225
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueisbae View Post
    The hot tub scene..... thatís going to be the very same night they conceive the baby that she didnít want right?
    I can't pretend I didn't have exactly this same thought, but honestly don't know WHAT to think about this narrative anymore.

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