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  1. #286
    Fantastic Member Foon4000's Avatar
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    I never want a straight cis-guy over 45 to write Rogue again. Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman and Warren Ellis can't write women, let alone the next rung down of comic writers, even if they protest to the opposite. Being able to is an exception that only CC and (at the minute, on the X-titles) Gerry Duggan break, even if Duggan did have an obvious boner for Rogue. I have a soft spot for Steve Seagle and Joe Kelly's Rogue, although they didn't get a lot of time to prove me wrong. FabNic could sometimes, maybe write X-women well.

  2. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foon4000 View Post
    I never want a straight cis-guy over 45 to write Rogue again. Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman and Warren Ellis can't write women, let alone the next rung down of comic writers, even if they protest to the opposite. Being able to is an exception that only CC and (at the minute, on the X-titles) Gerry Duggan break, even if Duggan did have an obvious boner for Rogue. I have a soft spot for Steve Seagle and Joe Kelly's Rogue, although they didn't get a lot of time to prove me wrong. FabNic could sometimes, maybe write X-women well.
    Many comicbook writers are just illequiped to see the female perspective. They are to ingrained in old ideas and portrayls. The risk is allways that if you work in a male dominated workplace that you lose that connection.

    Add to that the whole problem of writers seeing characters as almost their fictional girlfriends and should paired up with the writers proxy male character.

    Gambit suffers for this too since few writers see him as their proxy. Probably one of the reasons i like Romy. It's because the characters work toghether. Not because some writer insert themselves.

  3. #288
    Ready to roll out! R0d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    Many comicbook writers are just illequiped to see the female perspective. They are to ingrained in old ideas and portrayls. The risk is allways that if you work in a male dominated workplace that you lose that connection.
    In the same vein I would say Tini is ill equipped to see the male perspective, her portrayal of how a regular married man behaves seems to come from a hardcore feminist point of veiw.
    A man with no personal agency, unwanding adoration for his wife, accepting everything she says without even mouthing the slightest disagreement, doesn't stand up for himself and needs to be saved by her.
    With KT Gambit was supporting and caring, but when he had to, he said what he had on his mind and he stood up for himself, I miss that

  4. #289
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    I think the challenge of writing a character is probably trying to get into THEIR specific headspace, understanding where they are coming from. What is their past, what motivates them and what factors influence them. What are their strengths and faults? And a writer can and should draw from their own experiences and perspective as a human being to inform some of this, but must also realize where a character will probably make very different decisions from what they would in the same circumstances. Then take your reader on that journey. How else can a very moral person write a good villain?

    But certainly it's a huge challenge to write from a perspective you don't have personal experience with, such as a man writing a woman or a woman writing a man or writing someone with vastly different morals or a different orientation or worldview. In those cases, a good bit of research is needed to make it work.

  5. #290
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    On another note, it looks like my Battle of the Atom request is finally and fortuitously in the que for next week!

    Rogue and Gambit are the topic and it's just in time to kick off fanworks week!

    Hopefully they do our favorite duo justice. I'll share the link when it comes out Monday.

  6. #291
    Twitter: @theprattlp donpricetag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumpyshark View Post
    I'm obviously not a fan of Rogneto, as the age difference alone is icky, but Carey put some solid work into it so I can at least see why he paired them up, even if it was really not my thing. The rest of his X-Men stuff is fantastic though IMO, using science and their powers in such interesting ways (the Children of the Vault* in India, and Hellion's powers at the construction site in particular), with strong character work at the core.

    I'm a general fan of the X-Men though, with Rogue and Gambit among my faves, so stuff like this is potentially easier for me to swallow?

    *I'm thrilled that they're back!
    Carey's a great writer. Take nothing from him, but to say he "put in work" is a stretch. He 100% rushed his pairing story with those two. Rogue went from 'hell no' to 'ok, just the tip' waaaay too fast. So much so, he contradicted his own story within a month. This guy gave us Gambit's "harbor speech" and had Rogue sleep with Magneto within two-issues lol. Then he or editorial put Gambit on covers like there was some sort of love triangle, but Gambit might have had 4 word bubbles total in 3 books. Age of X and most of Legacy was extremely well written. But the way he handled that "relationship" was questionable at best. I can't even understand entire pages of Tini's Excalibur. I've never had to re-read panels to make sure I wasn't getting lost before now. Hate what he did there, but yeah... Carey, please. At least I'd understand what I was reading from panel to panel.

    To be honest, when I heard they were doing this book, with this cast I thought it was for sure going to KT. I was confused when Tini got it. Is it because she believes that she's magic? If that's the case I would have gone full magical and pulled in other mutant magic users to pair with Betsy (as Cap Brit) and Apocalypse like Magik, Forge, Tapestry, and Pixie, (Maybe even Storm). I think Gambit could have been better utilized in Marauders, or X-Force. Jubilee in New Mutants. If they just HAD to pair the married couple together, then Marauders could have fit too. Swap out Pyro or Storm. I dunno.
    Last edited by donpricetag; 01-28-2020 at 09:37 AM.
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  7. #292
    Incredible Member Romy Ship's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    Gambit suffers for this too since few writers see him as their proxy. Probably one of the reasons i like Romy. It's because the characters work toghether. Not because some writer insert themselves.
    This! SO MUCH THIS.

    We really just need a writer that gives a crap about BOTH of these characters to write good Romy again. It can be DONE! They just need to want to.


    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    Carey's a great writer. Take nothing from him, but to say he "put in work" is a stretch. He 100% rushed his pairing story with those two. Rogue went from 'hell no' to 'ok, just the tip' waaaay too fast. So much so, he contradicted his own story within a month. This guy gave us Gambit's "harbor speech" and had Rogue sleep with Magneto within two-issues lol. Then he or editorial put Gambit on covers like there was some sort of love triangle, but Gambit might have had 4 word bubbles total in 3 books. Age of X and most of Legacy was extremely well written. But the way he handled that "relationship" was questionable at best. I can't even understand entire pages of Tini's Excalibur. I've never had to re-read panels to make sure I wasn't getting lost before now. Hate what he did there, but yeah... Carey, please. At least I'd understand what I was reading from panel to panel.

    To be honest, when I heard they were doing this book, with this cast I thought it was for sure going to KT. I was confused when Tini got it. Is it because she believes that she's magic? If that's the case I would have gone full magical and pulled in other mutant magic users to pair with Betsy (as Cap Brit) and Apocalypse like Magik, Forge, Tapestry, and Pixie, (Maybe even Storm). I think Gambit could have been better utilized in Marauders, or X-Force. Jubilee in New Mutants. If they just HAD to pair the married couple together, then Marauders could have fit too. Swap out Pyro or Storm. I dunno.
    I love you for the bolded line alone. You are right on. Carey is a great writer but the "insert" was so blatant it's disgusting.

    I love Duggan's writing too but again.. "the insert" theme needs to go away because it's just... ew.
    Quote Originally Posted by DearMachine View Post
    I feel as if, uh, little Remy would make an issue sell more than little Bruce.

  8. #293
    Incredible Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romy Ship View Post
    This! SO MUCH THIS.

    We really just need a writer that gives a crap about BOTH of these characters to write good Romy again. It can be DONE! They just need to want to.




    I love you for the bolded line alone. You are right on. Carey is a great writer but the "insert" was so blatant it's disgusting.

    I love Duggan's writing too but again.. "the insert" theme needs to go away because it's just... ew.
    Inserts have definitely been an issue in the last couple years (pre-marriage) and it always turned me off of whatever book Rogue was in. Didn't Zub do that with Johnny Storm in Avengers at some point as well?
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  9. #294
    Ultimate Member spirit2011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    Inserts have definitely been an issue in the last couple years (pre-marriage) and it always turned me off of whatever book Rogue was in. Didn't Zub do that with Johnny Storm in Avengers at some point as well?
    It was Duggan.

    I can smell self inserts from miles away.It is a problem that goes beyond Rogue, unfortunaly.

  10. #295
    Incredible Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirit2011 View Post
    It was Duggan.

    I can smell self inserts from miles away.It is a problem that goes beyond Rogue, unfortunaly.
    Ah my mistake.

    And totally. I think it's just become apparent to me with Rogue because I do like her so much. I saw this on the DC side with Starfire as well
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  11. #296
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0d View Post
    Oh god no! Anyway, talking about absorption, when Rogue first absorbed Captain Marvel she touched her for too long, didn't kill but kept her powers. Here she absorbs Apocalypse to the point of actually killing him, so shouldn't she keep Apocalypse's powers just like she did with Capt Marvel and Wonderman?
    I would think not as she has more control now right.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  12. #297
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    I am not sure any of these writers can write men or women because comics aren't about the characters anymore. The comics are about the story the writer wants to tell and they jam whatever characters they get into these stories.

    There is nothing about Tini's story that required any of these characters really beyond their use as instruments to progress the plot. Claremont used to write characters and fit the plot around them. These writers write plots or events and fit the characters around it. It comes off very inorganic.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

  13. #298
    Fantastic Member Lapsus's Avatar
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    At this point, writing long standing relationships becomes the true original path instead of the repetitive break ups that plague the Marvel universe.

    Gambit and Rogue have the advantage that they are a power couple, neither of them needs to be the damsel of distress, they both can be part of the same adventures so you can write dynamics between them.

    This is a problem with Lois Lane and Mary Jane fox example, they are more limited so is more challenging writing them and making couple exciting.

    At some point, some couples should stay together, their marriage is as boring as the writer wants, i dont see the exciting of making the characters banging the rest of the Marvel Universe.

  14. #299
    Incredible Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    At this point, writing long standing relationships becomes the true original path instead of the repetitive break ups that plague the Marvel universe.

    Gambit and Rogue have the advantage that they are a power couple, neither of them needs to be the damsel of distress, they both can be part of the same adventures so you can write dynamics between them.

    This is a problem with Lois Lane and Mary Jane fox example, they are more limited so is more challenging writing them and making couple exciting.

    At some point, some couples should stay together, their marriage is as boring as the writer wants, i dont see the exciting of making the characters banging the rest of the Marvel Universe.
    It's funny you bring MJ up because her getting "powers" in Renew Your Vows was a major reason I was a big fan of that book.
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  15. #300
    Incredible Member Jumpyshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    Carey's a great writer. Take nothing from him, but to say he "put in work" is a stretch. He 100% rushed his pairing story with those two. Rogue went from 'hell no' to 'ok, just the tip' waaaay too fast. So much so, he contradicted his own story within a month. This guy gave us Gambit's "harbor speech" and had Rogue sleep with Magneto within two-issues lol. Then he or editorial put Gambit on covers like there was some sort of love triangle, but Gambit might have had 4 word bubbles total in 3 books. Age of X and most of Legacy was extremely well written. But the way he handled that "relationship" was questionable at best. I can't even understand entire pages of Tini's Excalibur. I've never had to re-read panels to make sure I wasn't getting lost before now. Hate what he did there, but yeah... Carey, please. At least I'd understand what I was reading from panel to panel.
    I'm obviously not gonna defend Rogneto to the hilt in this thread of all threads, but Rogue frequently ran headlong into the wrong option when freaked out, and Remy even acknowledges how Rogue figuring out her shit and being with Magneto is a sure-fire way for her to never again feel any magnetic attraction. In a book called Legacy, her going to Magneto after all that Joseph crap makes some sense too, I think? (Especially considering Joseph was dead at this point iirc.)

    It's the same way Rogue's currently freaked out about having a baby, what with the Quiet Council's law, the vision she had, and her longstanding powers fears (to which a pregnancy is a big unknown). Maybe she'll get there with Remy's support, but Remy's probably learned not to make any more harbour speeches in the heat of the moment (not that he was wrong to make the harbour speech!). To push a stressed Rogue is to send her on a long-term road trip - at best! Take the smart option and get laid in a hot tub for now haha.

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