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  1. #226
    Incredible Member rogueisbae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    I can't pretend I didn't have exactly this same thought, but honestly don't know WHAT to think about this narrative anymore.
    I do hate how Tini practically erased a huge part of Rogue’s narrative in wanting a family. But at the same time, I can’t help but think this may lead to an initially unwanted pregnancy because there really isn’t any reason for Tini to bring up the subject of kids at all and make it such a central thing. Maybe something in passing, like other X-Men teasing them about kids, sure but the fact that this is taking up a chunk of limited panel time seems like it’s sowing the seeds for more drama in later issues....

  2. #227
    Mighty Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueisbae View Post
    I do hate how Tini practically erased a huge part of Rogue’s narrative in wanting a family. But at the same time, I can’t help but think this may lead to an initially unwanted pregnancy because there really isn’t any reason for Tini to bring up the subject of kids at all and make it such a central thing. Maybe something in passing, like other X-Men teasing them about kids, sure but the fact that this is taking up a chunk of limited panel time seems like it’s sowing the seeds for more drama in later issues....
    That or it was just being used as an opportunity to make a statement about Krakoan "law" or bend the characters preferences toward the writers preferences?

  3. #228
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    ONE thing that I do appreciate about the "no kiddos" narrative is that, its real. I dunno just how appropriate it is for Remy & Rogue or how effectively it was executed, but I did appreciate it being addressed.

    The societal expectation check list bores me to tears. Get a degree. Get a job. Climb the ladder. Find a partner. Marry said partner. Buy a house. Reproduce. Continue the ladder. Continue reproducing. Blah Blah Blah.

    Perception of each of these check points is so bonkers and I love when a writer comes in and says "Okay so, I'm going to address a thing that people expect and I'm going to flip it on its head"
    Kind of like when Kelly had our lovers tie the knot and refused to let them become a "drab married couple". She infused them with energy and sex and passion and drama. They weren't relegated to a white picket fence somewhere to, well, make babies. Weeks after my husband and I got married we (two gay men) were regularly assaulted with "When you adopting????" interrogations at our places of employment. Parents we are NOT. Parents we shall never BE. Its not for us. Not everyone needs, wants, or must "have" children. haha

    Again, I don't know how appropriate it is for Remy and Rogue, or how well it was really executed, but I did appreciate acknowledging that not everyone out there wants the check list.

    All of that being said, I miss Mr. & Mrs. X (hahaha sob sob) and I really hope these two thrive moving forward.
    Last edited by Fokken; 01-24-2020 at 06:04 AM.

  4. #229
    Mighty Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    ONE thing that I do appreciate about the "no kiddos" narrative is that, its real. I dunno just how appropriate it is for Remy & Rogue or how effectively it was executed, but I did appreciate it being addressed.

    The societal expectation check list bores me to tears. Get a degree. Get a job. Climb the ladder. Find a partner. Marry said partner. Buy a house. Reproduce. Continue the ladder. Continue reproducing. Blah Blah Blah.

    Perception of each of these check points is so bonkers and I love when a writer comes in and says "Okay so, I'm going to address a thing that people expect and I'm going to flip it on its head"
    Kind of like when Kelly had our lovers tie the knot and refused to let them become a "drab married couple". She infused them with energy and sex and passion and drama. They weren't relegated to a white picket fence somewhere to, well, make babies. Weeks after my husband and I got married we (two gay men) were regularly assaulted with "When you adopting????" interrogations at our places of employment. Parents we are NOT. Parents we shall never BE. Its not for us. Not everyone needs, wants, or must "have" children. haha

    Again, I don't know how appropriate it is for Remy and Rogue, or how well it was really executed, but I did appreciate acknowledging that not everyone out there wants the check list.

    All of that being said, I miss Mr. & Mrs. X (hahaha sob sob) and I really hope these two thrive moving forward.
    100% agree this is a very valid point of view and important narrative to address and utilize in comics. And probably is a more fitting lifestyle for the majority of superheroes.

    My biggest complaint is that it doesn't fit how their narrative has been set up in continuity, even as recently as MMX. If anything the narrative has been building in the exact opposite direction. This felt like a set up to stir excitement only to yank the carpet out from under readers. For some I'm sure it was a bold departure from expectations, but for me it's just dissapointing and may close the door forever on that story potential. I can certainly think of other scenarios where relationships are teased, but then not acted on or even negated and they usually get accused of baiting readers. That's what this feels like to me.

  5. #230
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    ^^^

    Yup. That's why I had to say, "I dunno just how appropriate it is for Remy & Rogue or how effectively it was executed" because I too was getting a vibe from MMX.
    And then there is the lingering suspicion that Maxine and Manon might be their future kids buuuuuut, wouldn't they say something by now like "Hey you're our parents" <shrug>

    And sure, folks change their minds and maybe the intensity of Krakoa plays a factor and perhaps the LAWS and being one of the few couples on the island DOES add a different level of pressure to reproduce and that DOES make one feel the need to reevaluate where they're at emotionally. Its all pretty bonkers and clearly I'm biased (hahaha) but again, I don't know that it was executed as strongly as it could have been.

  6. #231
    Incredible Member Jumpyshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    ^^^

    Yup. That's why I had to say, "I dunno just how appropriate it is for Remy & Rogue or how effectively it was executed" because I too was getting a vibe from MMX.
    And then there is the lingering suspicion that Maxine and Manon might be their future kids buuuuuut, wouldn't they say something by now like "Hey you're our parents" <shrug>

    And sure, folks change their minds and maybe the intensity of Krakoa plays a factor and perhaps the LAWS and being one of the few couples on the island DOES add a different level of pressure to reproduce and that DOES make one feel the need to reevaluate where they're at emotionally. Its all pretty bonkers and clearly I'm biased (hahaha) but again, I don't know that it was executed as strongly as it could have been.
    I think I'm the Excalibur apologist in this thread, so here I go! (I continue to enjoy the overall plot of this book.)

    Rogue does have a tendency to be flighty and suddenly switch gears, so I see her slamming the door on having kids (biologically at least) in response to Krakoa and the law as not entirely independent of that.

    I thought that her saying that she's never needed Remy to look out for her less was because she was suffused with UNLIMITED POWER, whereas Remy was shitting himself having had a much less positive experience being hopped up on -[A]- Juice.

    In essence, I think I'm reading Tini's Remy as someone who fully understands how Rogue can be, and now has the maturity and wisdom to know when to back off. He's also 100% there for his wife, which is great to see, and I hope they avoid any wanky drama since we've had a lifetime of Rambit huffing.

    That said, he definitely could be more fun and charming and cool, and they will hopefully both be flirty together in the future - it could be fun if the team playfully gets sick of it, as an idea. I think it's tricky because this has been quite a compressed Rambit arc with Rogue's coma, so it's been 6 issues of Excalibur that hasn't had much chance to breathe (whether because of breakneck pace or weak writing depends on one's viewpoint) and has been released on a tight schedule, so Tini might adapt.

  7. #232
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Jumpy you and I are agree, regarding the whole "not needing Remy to worry".
    A lot of people, I feel, misinterpreted that as Rogue not caring about Remy or that she was blowing him off, but she only reinforcing that she is MEGA CHARGED and therefor the time for worry is past. She's ready to start effing sh!t up.
    Remy's concerns are 100% valid, because his wife just leeched a man Remy doesn't trust and she's taken on his physical attributes so yeah, be concerned boy. I would be too.

  8. #233
    Mighty Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    20200124_084436.jpg

    So far these hypothetical future characters are (left to right): Rogue/Gambit daughter, Gerry Drew, Emma Frost, Molly Hayes, (still not sure), and Dani Cage.

    Folks I WANT the story of THIS team so bad! 2nd generation superheroes with Emma as their Prof. X. Tell me that wouldn't be amazing?!

  9. #234
    Incredible Member Jumpyshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    20200124_084436.jpg

    So far these hypothetical future characters are (left to right): Rogue/Gambit daughter, Gerry Drew, Emma Frost, Molly Hayes, (still not sure), and Dani Cage.

    Folks I WANT the story of THIS team so bad! 2nd generation superheroes with Emma as their Prof. X. Tell me that wouldn't be amazing?!
    For sure. Digging the furs too - especially because Emma's are still just as much "fashion" as "survival". Queen.

  10. #235
    Ready to roll out! R0d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Jumpy you and I are agree, regarding the whole "not needing Remy to worry".
    A lot of people, I feel, misinterpreted that as Rogue not caring about Remy or that she was blowing him off, but she only reinforcing that she is MEGA CHARGED and therefor the time for worry is past. She's ready to start effing sh!t up.
    Remy's concerns are 100% valid, because his wife just leeched a man Remy doesn't trust and she's taken on his physical attributes so yeah, be concerned boy. I would be too.
    If it was the first, second or even third time that Gambit shows concern regarding Rogue there wouldn't be any complaints. The problem is that worrying about Rogue is all that Gambit seem capable of doing in this book, so even if in this instance it makes sense to act that way, it's still exhausting.

    Like I said before Tini's Gambit has no personal agency, his desires seem to only revolve around Rogue and her well being and nothing besides that.

    Rogue has like a two page monologue about her views in regards to not having kids, while we have no idea what are Gambit's own personal desires.

    Marriage is a partnership of equals and the aspirations of the husband should have some value too, in the six issues so far of Excalibur Gambit has not been treated like her equal, it pains me to say it but every time I read Excalibur, it feels like he is lesser than her.

  11. #236
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    I will say that Excalibur gambit also had his motivation of not trusting apocalypse, even before the coma. And he was only one who managed to do something that wasn’t what apocalypse wanted (sending Rachel) though it was downplayed in the book and by the other characters. *rolleyes*
    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    20200124_084436.jpg

    So far these hypothetical future characters are (left to right): Rogue/Gambit daughter, Gerry Drew, Emma Frost, Molly Hayes, (still not sure), and Dani Cage.

    Folks I WANT the story of THIS team so bad! 2nd generation superheroes with Emma as their Prof. X. Tell me that wouldn't be amazing?!
    I would say ‘cool’ but comics has made me jaded and cynical and wouldn’t put it pas KT to fall prey to the comic writers need to do something’unexpected’ for no real good real, ie, it’s rogue and someone else’s kid.

  12. #237
    Mighty Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anyajenkins View Post
    I would say ‘cool’ but comics has made me jaded and cynical and wouldn’t put it pas KT to fall prey to the comic writers need to do something’unexpected’ for no real good real, ie, it’s rogue and someone else’s kid.
    I doubt she would do that. Why would you dunk on your own favorite characters? Besides these characters are only a cameo in a purely hypothetical future for Captain Marvel: The End which isn't tied to the 616.

    I just really, really love this cast even if they never get to fully exist in real continuity.

  13. #238
    Incredible Member Jumpyshark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R0d View Post
    If it was the first, second or even third time that Gambit shows concern regarding Rogue there wouldn't be any complaints. The problem is that worrying about Rogue is all that Gambit seem capable of doing in this book, so even if in this instance it makes sense to act that way, it's still exhausting.

    Like I said before Tini's Gambit has no personal agency, his desires seem to only revolve around Rogue and her well being and nothing besides that.

    Rogue has like a two page monologue about her views in regards to not having kids, while we have no idea what are Gambit's own personal desires.

    Marriage is a partnership of equals and the aspirations of the husband should have some value too, in the six issues so far of Excalibur Gambit has not been treated like her equal, it pains me to say it but every time I read Excalibur, it feels like he is lesser than her.
    Sure, but his wife was in a coma and then blue herself. It'd be weirder if he hadn't shown concern the whole time. As anyajenkins pointed out, Remy did do his own thing about -[A]- too, though I agree that was oddly sublimated by the team's response. (I *think* that Tini is going for Remy being a bit of an outsider / rogue amidst the group, but it got lost amidst the tumult.)
    I would also reiterate that not a lot of time has passed over this arc, so again, Remy and the rest of the cast haven't had much chance to show multitudes.
    Also, his views on kids could be forthcoming. There are more issues to come. Maybe he was persuaded by her argument, maybe he will pitch adoption down the line. Serialised storytelling!

  14. #239
    Ready to roll out! R0d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumpyshark View Post
    Sure, but his wife was in a coma and then blue herself. It'd be weirder if he hadn't shown concern the whole time. As anyajenkins pointed out, Remy did do his own thing about -[A]- too, though I agree that was oddly sublimated by the team's response. (I *think* that Tini is going for Remy being a bit of an outsider / rogue amidst the group, but it got lost amidst the tumult.)
    I understand the concern but it has been so poorly executed that in the last few issues I just cringed and rolled me eyes every time it happened. During Messiah Complex Rogue was in a coma and while he was concerned about her, Gambit still was his own self.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumpyshark View Post
    Also, his views on kids could be forthcoming. There are more issues to come. Maybe he was persuaded by her argument, maybe he will pitch adoption down the line. Serialised storytelling!
    Having a conversation about having kids is a very important issue for every couple, especially a married one, and Gambit reaction to it was like "Are you done? Can we get laid now?". He comes off looking like a chump that either doesn't care about it or is too much of a coward to stand up for himself and say what he really feels about the topic. If he had something to say about that that was the moment to say it.
    Last edited by R0d; 01-24-2020 at 09:34 AM.

  15. #240
    The Forever Walker remydat's Avatar
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    I am calling the baby being Rogue and Apocalypse's rather than Rogue and Gambit's. Given how much Tini seems to hate Gambit, it will be fitting that Rogue has a baby for someone else so we can all laugh at the poor chump Gambit.
    It's hard for me to listen to someone not in my position. A caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions.

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