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  1. #991
    Incredible Member TheRealWashout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Question for Rogue fans. What were your thoughts on the fact that Rogue was pulled out of the X-Men for years and taken over to the Avengers side of things? Was this seen as a much-needed change for the character or did it feel like a limitation that she was being separated from the X-Universe?
    I loved her as an Avenger, and I miss it. She was given more to do as an Avenger than she ever has with the X-books in recent years.

  2. #992
    Fantastic Member seccruz's Avatar
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    She was better off. She was a team leader, she was as badass as I remember her being in the 80's and X-Treme, she and Gambit weren't forced together for the sake of a ship that does them no favors bc no one writes them as their own selves. All in all, it was a better time.
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  3. #993
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    They were written well before this version of Excalibur imho...

  4. #994
    Extraordinary Member Fokken's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    They were written well before this version of Excalibur imho...
    Agreed. Mr & Mrs X was sexy fun.

  5. #995
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Question for Rogue fans. What were your thoughts on the fact that Rogue was pulled out of the X-Men for years and taken over to the Avengers side of things? Was this seen as a much-needed change for the character or did it feel like a limitation that she was being separated from the X-Universe?
    I didn't love her being separated from her X-family, but I did appreciate her getting more character focus and growth.

    Ultimately the trouble with the X-books is always that there are too many characters for everyone to get their due attention. Yet they work best as a group. So balancing those opposing needs is always a huge challenge for any writer and some characters will always get sidelined as a result if they are not the writer's favorite.

    Uncanny put her back into a leadership role and allowed her to operate on a more global and cosmic scale. It also gave new readers exposure to her and made her many new in-world connections as well.

    All that said, I was overjoyed to see her return to the X-books. I feel like it's where she belongs and where her heart and loyalty really are.

    Her return to the X-books greatly fueled my interest in comics again and up until DoX I've been really happy with her character development. I was very annoyed by her loss of control over her powers in UA and was glad to see that rectified. I'd like to see her back in a more leadership role again or at least operating as a more independent unit in Krakoa rather than Apocalypse's lackey. The Rogue we know isn't one to blindly follow and not question authority. I'd also like to see more of her reconnecting with her close X-friends like Sam, Betsy, & Bobby. And I really want to know where her and Mystique are at in their strained relationship now that she's back and living in the same space and married. And how does Rogue feel about Destiny being resurrected or not? Plus I'd like to see more relationship development between Rogue and Gambit than what we're getting in Excalibur.

  6. #996
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Question for Rogue fans. What were your thoughts on the fact that Rogue was pulled out of the X-Men for years and taken over to the Avengers side of things? Was this seen as a much-needed change for the character or did it feel like a limitation that she was being separated from the X-Universe?
    I liked it okay. It was cool to see her interacting with other heroes (although it was a little weird how the writers kept trying to pair her off with different team-mates imo) and I liked seeing her as a leader, which seemed to fit her well. Definitely glad she's back with the X-Men though
    Make Good Art

  7. #997
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33 View Post
    They were written well before this version of Excalibur imho...
    Definitively that!

    2020 is such a trash for Gambit and Rogue and nothing looks so far that things will change for better.

  8. #998
    Ready to roll out! R0d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Question for Rogue fans. What were your thoughts on the fact that Rogue was pulled out of the X-Men for years and taken over to the Avengers side of things? Was this seen as a much-needed change for the character or did it feel like a limitation that she was being separated from the X-Universe?
    UA was a bit of a hit and miss to me, it had some good moments and some bad ones and ended up falling into irrelevancy after Duggan left.
    I do think some Rogue fans, especially those who are not sympathetic with her relationship with Gambit, miss the status of being the leader of an Avenger team that she used to have.
    In a way, they blame her marriage as the reason she was dragged back to the X-men where she is currently a glorified extra (same as Gambit).
    That said, in my opinion she was written well for most of R&G and Mr & Mrs X and to be fair in both book it felt like she was the main protagonist with Gambit as the supporting cast (even though he was treated well and he had some really cool moments in them).

  9. #999
    Amazing Member thjan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Question for Rogue fans. What were your thoughts on the fact that Rogue was pulled out of the X-Men for years and taken over to the Avengers side of things? Was this seen as a much-needed change for the character or did it feel like a limitation that she was being separated from the X-Universe?
    Although I enjoyed some of her time as an Avenger, I mostly missed her being with the X-Men and I felt like it went on too long. Aside from Wolverine and to a lesser extent Havok in Remender's Uncanny Avengers, Rogue was pretty much surrounded by co-workers while she was with the Avengers. It didn't feel like she had a personal life anymore, she was just there to be a mutant symbol and full time hero. While that is fine for solo characters that have a supporting cast and personal focus elsewhere outside the Avengers, I just didn't feel like it worked for Rogue. The X-Men are where her family and closest friends reside, and being with them is where she works best.

    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Ultimately the trouble with the X-books is always that there are too many characters for everyone to get their due attention. Yet they work best as a group. So balancing those opposing needs is always a huge challenge for any writer and some characters will always get sidelined as a result if they are not the writer's favorite.
    Yep, this is so true, and it is only seems to be getting worse with this new setup under Hickman where every mutant is in play and can be included as a team member. It was already bad before because of the introduction of SO many new characters, and pretty much everyone and their mother being made a full fledged X-Man, but now it is almost unmanageble. I miss when there were small and focused official X-Men teams, with the rest of the characters featured in titles like X-Force, X-Factor, and the like, that were separate from the main X-Men.

  10. #1000
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    Thank you everyone for your input!

    I really liked Rogue being an Avenger, particularly the leader of the Avengers, but I can understand why some fans wanted her back with her family. IMO, after Rogue and Gambit were married, they should have let Gambit join Rogue's Avengers team rather than ship them both back to the X-Men since it has done her no favors since then. They could have added another mutant or two to the squad so it doesn't feel like Rogue is just working with peers, like Wolverine, Iceman, or Jean. I also wasn't a fan of how they kept giving Rogue these weird love interests.

  11. #1001
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitecrown View Post
    Thank you everyone for your input!

    I really liked Rogue being an Avenger, particularly the leader of the Avengers, but I can understand why some fans wanted her back with her family. IMO, after Rogue and Gambit were married, they should have let Gambit join Rogue's Avengers team rather than ship them both back to the X-Men since it has done her no favors since then. They could have added another mutant or two to the squad so it doesn't feel like Rogue is just working with peers, like Wolverine, Iceman, or Jean. I also wasn't a fan of how they kept giving Rogue these weird love interests.
    I think the whole concept of the X-line right now, with a united nationalistic mutant society, works against the likelihood of seeing a concept like the unity squad being put forward again for a while. Pulling all mutants back to the X-line across the board was put in motion a while back and I suspect will be the status quo until Hickman is no longer running the storylines. Then we'll get a massive overcorrection in a new direction.

    We already know there are tensions between the X-Men and the Fantastic Four, but we haven't seen a lot of commentary from the Avengers regarding Krakoa yet.

    It would actually be interesting to see characters like Rogue, Wolverine, Beast, Cannonball, and Havok discussing their positions on serving the world at large via the Avengers versus serving their people specifically via Krakoa. The lack of reflection and commentary on this from such characters just feels flat.

    There's no reason all the characters in Excalibur, including Rogue, shouldn't be getting bigger moments and more meaningful character arcs. The main cast is very manageable, yet they get so little focus. It's all in the way the story is being constructed and focused. What are Rogue and Gambit's motivation in this story other than "serve Krakoa, follow orders"? When I think of Rogue disobeying Captain America in UA when she knew implicitly he was wrong and how powerful that moment was for her and then compare that to her shrugging off what Apocalypse is doing right now and basically ignoring Remy's very valid concerns on the matter ... it just doesn't track. This isn't the clever and fiercely independent Rogue we have seen from SO many other writers. Whether this is by design or just reflects a writer maybe less well read on her I don't know.

    I would have loved to see larger teams broken down into smaller strike teams with different goals/assignments sort of like we're seeing in X-Force to give them more individual attention and meaningful action scenes if they can't be easily handled as a group. The action scenes in Excalibur have been abysmal. And there are SO many significant extra characters, like Rachel, Meggan, Kitty, Pete Wisdom, Brian, Jaime etc that are getting as much or more significant panel time than the main cast. It's all just kind of dilute.

  12. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    I think the whole concept of the X-line right now, with a united nationalistic mutant society, works against the likelihood of seeing a concept like the unity squad being put forward again for a while. Pulling all mutants back to the X-line across the board was put in motion a while back and I suspect will be the status quo until Hickman is no longer running the storylines. Then we'll get a massive overcorrection in a new direction.

    We already know there are tensions between the X-Men and the Fantastic Four, but we haven't seen a lot of commentary from the Avengers regarding Krakoa yet.

    It would actually be interesting to see characters like Rogue, Wolverine, Beast, Cannonball, and Havok discussing their positions on serving the world at large via the Avengers versus serving their people specifically via Krakoa. The lack of reflection and commentary on this from such characters just feels flat.

    There's no reason all the characters in Excalibur, including Rogue, shouldn't be getting bigger moments and more meaningful character arcs. The main cast is very manageable, yet they get so little focus. It's all in the way the story is being constructed and focused. What are Rogue and Gambit's motivation in this story other than "serve Krakoa, follow orders"? When I think of Rogue disobeying Captain America in UA when she knew implicitly he was wrong and how powerful that moment was for her and then compare that to her shrugging off what Apocalypse is doing right now and basically ignoring Remy's very valid concerns on the matter ... it just doesn't track. This isn't the clever and fiercely independent Rogue we have seen from SO many other writers. Whether this is by design or just reflects a writer maybe less well read on her I don't know.

    I would have loved to see larger teams broken down into smaller strike teams with different goals/assignments sort of like we're seeing in X-Force to give them more individual attention and meaningful action scenes if they can't be easily handled as a group. The action scenes in Excalibur have been abysmal. And there are SO many significant extra characters, like Rachel, Meggan, Kitty, Pete Wisdom, Brian, Jaime etc that are getting as much or more significant panel time than the main cast. It's all just kind of dilute.
    I can't wait until Hickman is off the books and this new direction is scrapped because I'm not a fan at all. It hasn't been good for any of my favorite characters and Excalibur is a prime example. I checked that out after hearing all the Psylocke, Rogue, and Gambit fans complain and I can completely see why everyone is so unhappy. It really should be renamed Apocalypse because he's clearly the central character and everyone else is there to serve him, that is when Rogue isn't in a coma.

    Rogue and plenty of other X-characters are not the type to take orders blindly like they have been doing, especially from the likes of Apocalypse and other villains, so it feels really OOC. Especially when Rogue herself was just a leader not too long ago and now she's been shunted off as a minor member with no say. I would very much like to see a lot of the Avengers mutants talk about if they feel they are being better served here, like you said, and maybe have some of them defect because it's unrealistic that everyone on Krakoa is 100% onboard with everything.

    Excalibur has the added baggage of being a book with a lot of supporting characters and history which Rogue isn't necessarily a part of. That isn't always a bad thing because it develops new connections and experiences but Rogue hasn't been gaining any of that from being on this book so she feels like an afterthought. X-Force would be a better fit for her right now imo.

  13. #1003
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    It's June 20th! Happy Romy-versary ya'll! (Thanks to Romyship for the reminder)

    It's been 2 years since our favorite X-couple tied the knot.

    The traditional gifts for the 2nd anniversary are cotton or ceramic. What do you think they'll give each other?

    19xmen_art3-superJumbo.jpg
    26ddbf505cf0ff82b501ad803678d2fc.jpg

  14. #1004
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    And of course this one!

    d2c4f7811f95129eaca092e33b08bbf0.jpg

  15. #1005
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    Can I just say how glad I am that marvel got that guest artist for that issue? It was soooo gorgeous.

    Yeah, Excalibur...it had so much potential, but is basically apocalypse is awesomely awesome and betsy’s doing something, that awesomely awesome apocalypse told her to do, because he is awesome...

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