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  1. #1231
    Incredible Member DarkMagnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaenylis View Post
    Mike Carey's Supernovas (the first time Rogue was able to put together her own team)

    X-Men Legacy (220/275)

    Uncanny Avengers II (the first two volumes are awful but Duggan did a really good job with the third volume)

    Avengers No Surrender (Rogue wasn't in all the issues but she was one of the leaders and was able to shine more than once)

    Second Coming (one of my favorite events, Rogue has an important place in it and the story uses the versatile aspect of her mutation a lot)
    the Gold era for the Rogue's fans

  2. #1232
    Spectacular Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMagnus View Post
    the Gold era for the Rogue's fans
    I wish Duggan could write Rogue again. If he managed to save her after Remender's AWFUL run, maybe he could save her again

  3. #1233
    Spectacular Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    So hopefully Gambit will land in Children of the Atom's first issue in January

  4. #1234
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaenylis View Post
    So hopefully Gambit will land in Children of the Atom's first issue in January
    I'm hoping for that as well. Vita seems to like Gambit, so they should treat him right. I'm just happy to finally hear a release date for that book.
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  5. #1235
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandmans_Raven View Post
    I'm hoping for that as well. Vita seems to like Gambit, so they should treat him right. I'm just happy to finally hear a release date for that book.
    Glad it finally has a release, but wish it was closer. Fingers crossed for a good Gambit spotlight.

  6. #1236
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    I feel like people need to understand this is them setting up Gambits replacement. I don't understand how people are cheering this book on when it's designed to replace gambit in the future. I just can't get excited knowing they are doing that.

  7. #1237
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    I feel like people need to understand this is them setting up Gambits replacement. I don't understand how people are cheering this book on when it's designed to replace gambit in the future. I just can't get excited knowing they are doing that.
    Well for one thing these characters are human fans, not mutants. So there's that.

    For a second point, much like X-23 didn't actually replace Wolverine when she took the mantle and Miles Morales/SpiderGwen/Spiderwoman didn't replace Peter Parker, and Kate Bishop didn't replace Hawkeye, and Ms. Marvel didn't replace Captain Marvel, this new gal isn't going to replace Remy. It just expands his universe. If anything it may attract new fans to him that didn't care for him before. Original fans of Gambit won't abandon him for this new character. She'll likely have a very different personality and background. She's a Gambit fan who admires him and wants to learn from him. That can only improve Remy's image with the haters. We already know he's great in a mentorship role. And it's not like he's getting shine from any other writer currently. Vita is a fan. Gambit is one of their 3 favorite X-Men. Vita also writes a great Bishop. I think you need to give it a chance.

    Cyclops has a fan character too and do you really think he's going to lose popularity as a result? Or Nightcrawler? They won't.
    Last edited by AppleJ; 09-12-2020 at 06:01 PM.

  8. #1238
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Yeah, I would be shocked if Vita or Marvel was planning on using any of these characters to replace the pre-existing ones. That almost never works.
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  9. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Well for one thing these characters are human fans, not mutants. So there's that.

    For a second point, much like X-23 didn't actually replace Wolverine when she took the mantle and Miles Morales/SpiderGwen/Spiderwoman didn't replace Peter Parker, and Kate Bishop didn't replace Hawkeye, and Ms. Marvel didn't replace Captain Marvel, this new gal isn't going to replace Remy. It just expands his universe. If anything it may attract new fans to him that didn't care for him before. Original fans of Gambit won't abandon him for this new character. She'll likely have a very different personality and background. She's a Gambit fan who admires him and wants to learn from him. That can only improve Remy's image with the haters. We already know he's great in a mentorship role. And it's not like he's getting shine from any other writer currently. Vita is a fan. Gambit is one of their 3 favorite X-Men. Vita also writes a great Bishop. I think you need to give it a chance.

    Cyclops has a fan character too and do you really think he's going to lose popularity as a result? Or Nightcrawler? They won't.
    Isnt this like a main book for the Xmen? I doubt they are pushing it this hard without their being a bigger plan for it. Even if it's down the line it's clear this is setting up replacements.

  10. #1240
    Spectacular Member Sylarmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Speaking of Second Coming, I wonder if we'll ever see someone follow up on the connection between Rogue and Hope. Becomes even more curious to me given Hope's totally new role as one of the Five. Was thinking Rogue could absorb The Five to resurrect Destiny in theory ... but could she absorb Hope? Or would their powers cancel out? Rogue doesn't have the enhancement angle to her powers that Hope does though.

    Also, the Excalibur #12 preview thread is up ... nothing Earth shattering. Same panels we saw before with the Externals. Candra seems to maybe still be her teen version. More Apocalypse nonsense. I suppose Romy will show eventually in the issue. Just have no excitement for this event.
    if they do a good job. Rogue should do that for destiny.
    and could do without any problem. more so now that he has her unlocked powers back in full control and development. She could take the powers of the 5 even without them realizing it.


    ________


    Angle of improvement? But if Rogue is more powerful than Hope .. explain that. And maximizing powers, if that's what you mean ... that's something that Rogue did since its inception. and as we know Rogue can with unlimited powers of all kinds. Hope only with mutants and only with a few powers.



    Rogue was able to absorb Mimic and Emplate who are both more powerful than useless Hope.


    there was a kind of cancellation when they touched when Rogue was in a coma. but there Rogue has her ower accelerated but he was still blocked in his immature form.
    when Rogue is in control her absorption is much more powerful and she is in full swing. and those that he couldn't absorb before now if he can like Mojo, the childrensotv and Wonderman.


    also when she stopped the celestial she absorbed all the xmen (and avengers) on earth and that includes Hope.


    but in the end with control she decides what to take.
    or if you take everything together. she could duplicate hope without hurting him and without him finding out that she duplicated her. how did so many times at legacy.


    what I would like is for you to remember your new set of powers to absorb also at a distance and to various targets. Tiny's memory needs to be refreshed.
    Last edited by Sylarmax; 09-12-2020 at 10:24 PM.

  11. #1241
    Spectacular Member Sylarmax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Excalibur by Tini Howard and Marcus To

    It's ... so so. The art is pretty great, but Gambit and Rogue haven't had much of a central role thus far. They've had a few okay moments as a couple, but most of the plot revolves around Apocalypse and Betsy, the new Captain Britain. Gambit has been short changed pretty badly as far as being treated as a joke by other characters and lacking his usual skill and charm. Rogue was fridged for like 5 issues right at the start. So ... manage your expectations.
    Rogue kills Apo ( this is a Amazing and powerfull feat ) ando se have good figths.

    But Gambit. ..... lol very sad forma gambit fans.

  12. #1242
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    Isnt this like a main book for the Xmen? I doubt they are pushing it this hard without their being a bigger plan for it. Even if it's down the line it's clear this is setting up replacements.
    It was delayed for a full year even though it was announced with the other main titles and many have speculated it would be a limited series. JDW says it depends on how well received it is, so clearly it's not set in stone. The characters are not mutants, they are humans. The audience they are trying to appeal to with these characters are more likely to be the currently untapped or poorly represented resources in the readership - preteens/teens, women, LGBTQ, POC.

    Again to my examples- Laura was full on given the exact same powers as Wolverine. Even took his name and uniform while he was dead for an extended period of time. Yet Wolverine is back, in every book again, and has his solo again. The readers that like that character still do. The readers that prefer Laura as Wolverine are largely different readers that liked the powerset of Logan but probably didn't relate to or gravitate to him as a older male character. Laura brought in new and different readers. It's not a competition.

    It's silly to be afraid of "replacement characters" in general.

    They simply aren't going to replace popular mutants in the X-Men series with a bunch of teenage humans. There is no logic to that line of thinking. At most, these characters get their own separate series. Hickman is in love with Cyclops and Nightcrawler. They aren't going anywhere. Cyclops was literally just resurrected!

    The readership isn't a set number of people that is divided up like pie. There is always room for new fans and expanded books if they sell. Plenty of kids are out there that don't read comics because they haven't found the character that appeals to them. Maybe these new characters will? Representation matters. And this means not needing to change the OG characters to win them over. It's ok that OG Gambit may not appeal to everyone out there.

    Another point, I couldn't have cared less about OG Hawkeye as a character in the past and never read him. He was just the lamest Avenger in my book. Then I read the Kate Bishop Hawkeye series where Clint appears as her mentor. Suddenly I care a LOT more about Clint as a character because I got to know him through her. These fan characters could serve as a similar bridge to new readers for OG Gambit, Nightcrawler, Cyclops, etc.

    Last but not least - it's possible to enjoy more than one comic character at a time. One could love OG Gambit AND new gal Gambit at the same time.

    Replacement presupposes that readers will drop OG Gambit to read new gal Gambit. In all those other examples I gave that never happened. The OGs are still going strong. I have no intention of doing that and neither I'll wager do any other current Gambit fans. I probably will read both if I like the new gal enough.

  13. #1243
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    It is not about readers. Marvel don't care about Gambit. They would be happy to replace him with a black teen girl.

    Kate Bishop is written as superior to Clint in everything. Iam not interested to see that story for Remy.

    The only thing for me that is good from COTA is Vita. She is a Gambit fan and I hope that she will write him and write him damn good because I am tired of Excalibur and won't spend any money on something that is not good enough.

  14. #1244
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    It was delayed for a full year even though it was announced with the other main titles and many have speculated it would be a limited series. JDW says it depends on how well received it is, so clearly it's not set in stone. The characters are not mutants, they are humans. The audience they are trying to appeal to with these characters are more likely to be the currently untapped or poorly represented resources in the readership - preteens/teens, women, LGBTQ, POC.

    Again to my examples- Laura was full on given the exact same powers as Wolverine. Even took his name and uniform while he was dead for an extended period of time. Yet Wolverine is back, in every book again, and has his solo again. The readers that like that character still do. The readers that prefer Laura as Wolverine are largely different readers that liked the powerset of Logan but probably didn't relate to or gravitate to him as a older male character. Laura brought in new and different readers. It's not a competition.

    It's silly to be afraid of "replacement characters" in general.

    They simply aren't going to replace popular mutants in the X-Men series with a bunch of teenage humans. There is no logic to that line of thinking. At most, these characters get their own separate series. Hickman is in love with Cyclops and Nightcrawler. They aren't going anywhere. Cyclops was literally just resurrected!

    The readership isn't a set number of people that is divided up like pie. There is always room for new fans and expanded books if they sell. Plenty of kids are out there that don't read comics because they haven't found the character that appeals to them. Maybe these new characters will? Representation matters. And this means not needing to change the OG characters to win them over. It's ok that OG Gambit may not appeal to everyone out there.

    Another point, I couldn't have cared less about OG Hawkeye as a character in the past and never read him. He was just the lamest Avenger in my book. Then I read the Kate Bishop Hawkeye series where Clint appears as her mentor. Suddenly I care a LOT more about Clint as a character because I got to know him through her. These fan characters could serve as a similar bridge to new readers for OG Gambit, Nightcrawler, Cyclops, etc.

    Last but not least - it's possible to enjoy more than one comic character at a time. One could love OG Gambit AND new gal Gambit at the same time.

    Replacement presupposes that readers will drop OG Gambit to read new gal Gambit. In all those other examples I gave that never happened. The OGs are still going strong. I have no intention of doing that and neither I'll wager do any other current Gambit fans. I probably will read both if I like the new gal enough.
    For me when I say "replacement" it's meant more in terms of general pop culture. Like when I talk about Gambit even if people don't know who he is really they will say "the guy who throws the playing cards?" Gambit is that guy. And when I'm talking "replacement" I'm especially looking at what are they planning to do in the MCU and video games and promotions and everything.

    For mentorship I agree Clint is not that interesting of a character, looks wise character wise or powerswise. I think he was made as more of a background character. Gambit I think has leading man potential if people would actually put effort into him.

    The way I heard Vita talk about James Bond made me nervous. And I heard some of her interviews and all I feel like she is doing is the Terminator Dark Fate tactic where she wants to do the exact story but she simply wants to do the story with a more diverse hero. I am guessing we are going to do a lot of the same beats of Gambit's story just with his replacement character. If someone loves a character write that character don't write them to be replaced.


    Gambit already had a great mentor ship story with a strong female apprentice, X23. I loved that story so much. But the difference here is he's most likely there to get older readers to read the new characters that are going to be used "for the new generation" there's a difference between mentorship and replacement. I feel like the only way to stop it is to not support it in anyway. And I won't engage with it that's just how I feel
    Last edited by Gripstir; 09-13-2020 at 12:14 PM.

  15. #1245
    Amazing Member thjan's Avatar
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    While in general I am not a big fan of legacy characters(especially ones with the same powers and looks since I like my favorite characters to stay unique in those regards), I am still somewhat looking forward to Children of the Atom. It will be a nice change of pace to see another character besides Storm, Rogue, and Laura that actually respects and admires Gambit. Plus, I too am hoping Gambit will be appearing at least a little in this comic and will get some shine from a writer that actually likes him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gripstir View Post
    Isnt this like a main book for the Xmen? I doubt they are pushing it this hard without their being a bigger plan for it. Even if it's down the line it's clear this is setting up replacements.
    Do you really see Marvel replacing the likes of Cyclops, Jean Grey, or Nightcrawler with these characters? It will never happen. And yeah, while I agree with Purplevit that many of Marvel's writers and editors would probably be quite happy to replace Gambit with this new character, doing a whole series and introducing all these other characters as well just to replace one would be going to some pretty extraordinary and risky lengths to accomplish that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Kate Bishop is written as superior to Clint in everything. Iam not interested to see that story for Remy.
    Yeah this is my main worry and another one of my problems with legacy characters in general. While it is not always the case, it is still true that legacy characters are often built up at the expense of the original character. I hope that will not be what happens in CotA, but it is always a possibility.

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