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  1. #1426
    Fantastic Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeb View Post
    Yankee Witch has nothing to do with Wanda. It's my pet name for "dear" Carol. I took it from UXM#244. This is what Rogue called Carol when Carol took over Rogue's body and redecorated Rogue's living area without informing Rogue first.
    Oops
    Sorry

    Actually, Carol's solo is pretty good

  2. #1427
    Fantastic Member rhaenylis's Avatar
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    By the way, I do not find anything appreciable in this issue, except Jubilee's introduction. Adult women dismissive of the trauma of a sexually assaulted teenager, is that supposed to be feminism ? Rogue had every reason to be anguished and furious when Carol took control of her body by force shortly after. And the fact that Ororo, Betsy and Alison let Carol continue to control Rogue's body in its entirety for their trip to the mall... I think Claremont did wonders with Rogue, but Outback's era remains, in my opinion, fundamentally bad

  3. #1428
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Excalibur's sales for September looked solid and it's still being heaped with praise by most of X-Twitter. I really don't see why, but to each their own I guess. So it doesn't seem this book is going anywhere soon.

    Which I wouldn't even care a bit about Excalibur's success or lack thereof if Gambit and Rogue weren't trapped here and could just get moved to another book or even have an appearance somewhere else. I'm not even buying X-books anymore, as Excalibur has left me so uninterested in the current plots. It seems like the same 9 or 10 favorite characters are getting multiple appearances and key roles across several books, while Gambit and Rogue are playing second fiddle to Betsy and Apocalypse in Excalibur.

    They could easily leave this book and never be missed. They hardly contribute anything. Even though Gambit has some obvious ties to the supernatural through the Thieves Guild and other stories from his solo series, none of that is used or referenced a bit. Even though he's considered one of the top characters for hand-to-hand combat, Tini has him clumsy, tripping over himself and whining while all the action sequences mostly take place off panel anyway. Clearly she has no interest in writing him properly. He's just a foil to prop the other characters up. And though Rogue has led her own X-teams and her own Avengers team and has no trouble thinking for herself and going against orders, she's somehow happy to follow Betsy around (who has been a terrible leader so far) and do all of Apocalypse's highly questionable bidding. Even the Council was all, you did what? Wth? Rogue isn't a killer and she isn't an idiot, but in Excalibur she seems to just be swept along in this mess.

    Can anyone tell me why Gambit and Rogue are on this team? What is their motivation, as characters, to be here? It's not doing anything for them. It's not funny, it hasn't built on their continuity, we don't get to see them contributing anything significant or even just being amazing as the team muscle ... what about this book is fun or interesting for fans of these two characters? We've gotten a few cute or sexy scenes, but far.and in between them being kind of awful. I just don't get it. Like probably 90%+ of the Gambit and Rogue fans I know dislike this book and have completely dropped it. It's basically killed this thread which used to be full of enthusiasm and excitement. All we have is the beautiful Marcus To art.

    I'm so over this book and trying to be patient with it. What is my incentive for picking up the issue after XoS? That MAYBE we'll get an issue without Apocalypse and Betsy sucking all the air out of the room? That maybe Tini will bother to read up on her other characters and write them with any little bit of accuracy or enthusiasm?
    Yes to all points. I really don't care if Excalibur ends. Rogue and Gambit and Jubilee should just not have been in this book to begin with. If Tini wanted to do a book to play with Apocalypse and Betsy (and to a lesser extent, Rictor) then they should have let her. But no, they had to give her 3 popular characters so she can do nothing with them but still draw in sales from the fans of said characters.
    Make Good Art

  4. #1429
    Astonishing Member mikeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaenylis View Post
    By the way, I do not find anything appreciable in this issue, except Jubilee's introduction. Adult women dismissive of the trauma of a sexually assaulted teenager, is that supposed to be feminism ? Rogue had every reason to be anguished and furious when Carol took control of her body by force shortly after. And the fact that Ororo, Betsy and Alison let Carol continue to control Rogue's body in its entirety for their trip to the mall... I think Claremont did wonders with Rogue, but Outback's era remains, in my opinion, fundamentally bad
    I agree about what you said about UXM#244. See in Genosha, Rogue was helpless to fight back against those who abused and dominated her. Rogues"tantrum" on the other hand, was her way of fighting back against someone who was trying to control and dominate her. Rogue probably needed to blow off some steam more than any of the other gals, and yet, she ends getting sent to her "room" of her subconscious. Carol said Rogue "Wouldn't talk, wouldn't listen, so I got fed up and took over." What did Carol expect from someone traumatized by sexual assault? And if Rogue wanted to leave, she should have had the free will to do so. Everyone else in the group could come and go as they pleased. Rogue would have calmed down and eventually returned on her own. But that would have been her choice. Carol taking her over like that basically says to me that Rogue wasn't equal to everyone else in the group.

  5. #1430
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Excalibur's sales for September looked solid and it's still being heaped with praise by most of X-Twitter. I really don't see why, but to each their own I guess. So it doesn't seem this book is going anywhere soon.

    Which I wouldn't even care a bit about Excalibur's success or lack thereof if Gambit and Rogue weren't trapped here and could just get moved to another book or even have an appearance somewhere else. I'm not even buying X-books anymore, as Excalibur has left me so uninterested in the current plots. It seems like the same 9 or 10 favorite characters are getting multiple appearances and key roles across several books, while Gambit and Rogue are playing second fiddle to Betsy and Apocalypse in Excalibur.

    They could easily leave this book and never be missed. They hardly contribute anything. Even though Gambit has some obvious ties to the supernatural through the Thieves Guild and other stories from his solo series, none of that is used or referenced a bit. Even though he's considered one of the top characters for hand-to-hand combat, Tini has him clumsy, tripping over himself and whining while all the action sequences mostly take place off panel anyway. Clearly she has no interest in writing him properly. He's just a foil to prop the other characters up. And though Rogue has led her own X-teams and her own Avengers team and has no trouble thinking for herself and going against orders, she's somehow happy to follow Betsy around (who has been a terrible leader so far) and do all of Apocalypse's highly questionable bidding. Even the Council was all, you did what? Wth? Rogue isn't a killer and she isn't an idiot, but in Excalibur she seems to just be swept along in this mess.

    Can anyone tell me why Gambit and Rogue are on this team? What is their motivation, as characters, to be here? It's not doing anything for them. It's not funny, it hasn't built on their continuity, we don't get to see them contributing anything significant or even just being amazing as the team muscle ... what about this book is fun or interesting for fans of these two characters? We've gotten a few cute or sexy scenes, but far.and in between them being kind of awful. I just don't get it. Like probably 90%+ of the Gambit and Rogue fans I know dislike this book and have completely dropped it. It's basically killed this thread which used to be full of enthusiasm and excitement. All we have is the beautiful Marcus To art.

    I'm so over this book and trying to be patient with it. What is my incentive for picking up the issue after XoS? That MAYBE we'll get an issue without Apocalypse and Betsy sucking all the air out of the room? That maybe Tini will bother to read up on her other characters and write them with any little bit of accuracy or enthusiasm?
    I don't know know why Rogue was around when that nonsense with the gate put her in a coma, and I have even less idea why they kept moving her comatose body around various combat sites. (Yeah, Apocalypse wanted her to absorb something blahblahblah, but why why SHE there?) So annoying.

  6. #1431
    Invincible Member juan678's Avatar
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    X-Men 16 Variant Cover by Kael Ngu

  7. #1432
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaenylis View Post
    By the way, I do not find anything appreciable in this issue, except Jubilee's introduction. Adult women dismissive of the trauma of a sexually assaulted teenager, is that supposed to be feminism ? Rogue had every reason to be anguished and furious when Carol took control of her body by force shortly after. And the fact that Ororo, Betsy and Alison let Carol continue to control Rogue's body in its entirety for their trip to the mall... I think Claremont did wonders with Rogue, but Outback's era remains, in my opinion, fundamentally bad

    Yeah, the problem there is that, and people forget, carol was effectively trapped in her mind for over a year at that point, forced to experience everything happening on the outside. Including as she said, the things that hurt her, which also would hurt carol including anything that happened in the prison

    Rogue atleast seems lucky that when carol used to take over, she would become unconscious and unaware of the happenings outside (atleast given how she'd react), but carol's experience seemed more akin to being in the sunken place. Even wonder man from what I remember was unconscious after a short while and he told rogue not to feel bad about it as a result. I wonder if mastermind had something to do with it to prolong rogue's suffering though of course carol got the worst of it.

    After a long period of this kind of torture, as carol said, she wasn't really stable herself, which is what caused her to redecorate rogue's room and spend time in the real world to ground herself in her old life. What's truly baffling is the x-men barely did anything to free carol from rogue's mind even though she was a friend.

    At the very best you could say they felt guilty about neglecting their friend and her condition for that long and really had no easy solutions that were fair to both.

    So once this conundrum reared its head, claremont shortly after had carol separated, brainwashed and killed off by magneto.
    Last edited by Ichijinijisanji; 11-25-2020 at 06:56 AM.

  8. #1433
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post


    X-Men 16 Variant Cover by Kael Ngu
    This is beautiful! And I got all excited and then noticed ...

    This is X-Men ... and then realized ... VARIANT. Because of course the powers that be don't mind using Romy to draw readers in as a way to bolster sales. But far be it that they actually give them any content or purpose in in the actual book or larger plot. Not that I'm excited about the prospect of Hickman writing them anyway since he apparently finds them so disdainful.

    But if they're not in this story, forget it.

  9. #1434
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Destruction is a visual masterpice by Larraz and Gracia. It is the most beautiful comic book I had ever seen.

    Spoilers:
    Gambit and Rogue appears on splash page with all X-Men in a cool way.
    Later they both have 1 panel where Rogue kicks demons and Gambit throws cards on them.
    Last edited by Purplevit; 11-25-2020 at 01:16 PM.

  10. #1435
    Mighty Member Sandmans_Raven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Destruction is a visual masterpice by Larraz and Gracia. It is the most beautiful comic book I had ever seen.

    Spoilers:
    Gambit and Rogue appears on splash page with all X-Men in a cool way.
    Later they both have 1 panel where Rogue kicks demons and Gambit throws cards on them.

    On data page with all X-Men listed, Rogue is listed as Anna Marie LeBeau
    Oh nice! I saw that splash page and it's really cool. Can't wait to read this later
    Make Good Art

  11. #1436
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    Destruction is a visual masterpice by Larraz and Gracia. It is the most beautiful comic book I had ever seen.

    Spoilers:
    Gambit and Rogue appears on splash page with all X-Men in a cool way.
    Later they both have 1 panel where Rogue kicks demons and Gambit throws cards on them.

    On data page with all X-Men listed, Rogue is listed as Anna Marie LeBeau
    Well that's at least some nice crumbs to be thrown.

    Thinking on that vacant Quiet Counsel position, I think it ought to go to Rogue. She's been a team leader enough times and deserves a little recognition there. Plus seeing her get some panel time with Kurt and Mystique.

  12. #1437
    Mighty Member Hi-Fi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purplevit View Post
    On data page with all X-Men listed, Rogue is listed as Anna Marie LeBeau
    Where is that data page? In Destruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Well that's at least some nice crumbs to be thrown.

    Thinking on that vacant Quiet Counsel position, I think it ought to go to Rogue. She's been a team leader enough times and deserves a little recognition there. Plus seeing her get some panel time with Kurt and Mystique.
    Sadly, since Rogue doesn't seem to be on any of the x-writer's mind, including her current writer, I doubt that notion ever crossed any of them. I mean, it's moronic that she hasn't asked about Irene's resurrection yet.

  13. #1438
    [insert something witty] PeachFlavoredXanax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan678 View Post


    X-Men 16 Variant Cover by Kael Ngu
    Okay, I love this, I do but... all I can see is Gambit’s late 80s acid wash jeans. Rogue, I wouldn't blame you for breaking up your marriage over this

  14. #1439
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeachFlavoredXanax View Post
    Okay, I love this, I do but... all I can see is Gambitís late 80s acid wash jeans. Rogue, I wouldn't blame you for breaking up your marriage over this
    I actually don't mind the pants themselves, but ... they totally don't go with the rest of his ensemble. If Rogue's gonna rock her 90's outfit, seems like he should too? Or just maybe have his top half match the same decade as his bottom half at least. Just go with dark pants? I dunno. LOL

  15. #1440
    Extraordinary Member Purplevit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hi-Fi View Post
    Where is that data page? In Destruction?.
    I saw it on twitter but now I can't find it in issue. It seems I get smth wrong.

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