Tom King Batman: Reread & Bat/Cat Appreciation 2020

[millernumber1]

Gordon floating the possibility that Batman knew the spies would save KGBeast could be read as being informed by Wolfman's Year Three retcon of "Ten Nights of the Beast." Dick pointed out that Bruce did contact the authorities to pick KGBeast up but let too much time pass and it was still a reckless thing to do. So I think that's the interpretative lens I'd go with--Bruce knew, but it was still a dangerous game to play and out of character.

Fair enough. This kind of ambiguity I'm okay with, when normally I much prefer things to be clear.

[David Walton]

Fair enough. This kind of ambiguity I'm okay with, when normally I much prefer things to be clear.

I think it's basically King's take on "10 Nights of the Beast"/Year Three in the same way he plays with whether Batman and Catwoman's first meeting lines up with the Golden Age or Miller's Year One.

[Chubistian]

I think it's also important that Batman notes that, even if he wanted to (and this could be read as a soft vengeance for Dick's headshot if we think Bruce knew there were spies and this was his way of at least preoccupy the Beast a little), he couldn't do anything for the KGBeast. There was no way he could take him through the snow with him without both dying. Still, it was reckless from Bruce to leave him like that and not checking him out even a little. No matter what we choose to believe, it's clear that Batman was very affected by the hit on his partner

[millernumber1]

I think it's also important that Batman notes that, even if he wanted to (and this could be read as a soft vengeance for Dick's headshot if we think Bruce knew there were spies and this was his way of at least preoccupy the Beast a little), he couldn't do anything for the KGBeast. There was no way he could take him through the snow with him without both dying. Still, it was reckless from Bruce to leave him like that and not checking him out even a little. No matter what we choose to believe, it's clear that Batman was very affected by the hit on his partner

Well said. I don't think we're supposed to think Bruce is acting normally by this point of the run.

[Scott Taylor]

This conversation does bring up a point of discussion - that being, was Batman ever actually broken by Bane/Thomas during this run?

[millernumber1]

This conversation does bring up a point of discussion - that being, was Batman ever actually broken by Bane/Thomas during this run?

An excellent question! I very much think he was broken by the time he got to 74. But interestingly, as 78-79 shows, even when broken, he was still thinking and trying.

[Chubistian]

This conversation does bring up a point of discussion - that being, was Batman ever actually broken by Bane/Thomas during this run?

Great question. I think by this point he's truly broken, but that later, in Knightmares, Bane and Thomas overdid their hand because Bruce gained more force through the introspection he had to do to defeat Scarecrow's gas. This doesn't mean he was recovered in The Fall and the Fallen and I would say his fury towards Bane is sincere, but he was already planning some type of coming back to destroy Bane, even if it meant that he had to suffer at Bane's hands and go undercover, something that couldn't be avoided. If Bruce could, he would have defeated Bane right there, but he lacked the strenght and couldn't have the Batfamily fully involded just yet, because if everyone had lost, it would have been the end for the heroes. Yet, what neither side was expecting was Alfred's sacrifice, which Bruce was able to overcome* and that gave the upper hand to the Batfamily

*At least in King's run. I haven't read Tynion's nor the Alfred RIP one shot, so I don't know if they went back to a Bruce mourning his friend's death

[millernumber1]

Mar 18: Knightmares (61-63, 66-69) (Optional: Heroes in Crisis, The Price)

I'm not planning to reread Heroes in Crisis yet, and have no intention of rereading The Price at all anytime soon, but Knightmares, with the exception of issue #61, is just gold. I hope people will join me in posting thoughts on each one, and then Monday or Tuesday, we should rank them!

[Chubistian]

Mar 18: Knightmares (61-63, 66-69) (Optional: Heroes in Crisis, The Price)

I'm not planning to reread Heroes in Crisis yet, and have no intention of rereading The Price at all anytime soon, but Knightmares, with the exception of issue #61, is just gold. I hope people will join me in posting thoughts on each one, and then Monday or Tuesday, we should rank them!

Yes, even in the re-read, #61 hasn't improved. Travis Moore does an amazing job, but after the cliffhanger in #60, this issue doesn't work. I think if Tom King decided to start with #62, the start of Knightmares wouldn't have been so jarring while still maintaining that "wtf is happening here" vibe. I think the pacing of the arc as a whole is slow, but as self containing issues, except for #61, every one adds a litte grain of information and/or introspection that makes it a very entertaining path. I will wait for your posts of each issue to comment them individually millernumber1, since I think this arc deserves a more detailed anaylisis because of how it deepens different sides of Batman and the story Tom King built

[millernumber1]

Yes, even in the re-read, #61 hasn't improved. Travis Moore does an amazing job, but after the cliffhanger in #60, this issue doesn't work. I think if Tom King decided to start with #62, the start of Knightmares wouldn't have been so jarring while still maintaining that "wtf is happening here" vibe. I think the passing of the arc as a whole is slow, but as self containing issues, except for #61, every one adds a litte grain of information and/or introspection that makes it a very entertaining path. I will wait for your posts of each issue to comment them individually millernumber1, since I think this arc deserves a more detailed anaylisis because of how it deepens different sides of Batman and the story Tom King built

Travis Moore's art is really gorgeous - kinda bummed we didn't get any more issues with him, though I do not want more about "Master Bruce." I think your point about pacing is good - each issue progressively gives a little more information (except for 67, which is a deliberate regression), increasing the tension while also being a great little issue by itself. I think I'll try to post my thoughts on #62 tonight, but my first thought is that the variant cover by Frank Miller is actually stunning. Unlike most of Miller's recent artwork (and by recent I mean 20 years), this is deeply emotive and effective for me. It's not the "grit your teeth" Batman, it's a melancholy, sad Batman, and I love it - I actually special ordered this cover. Curious to know what people think of this cover specifically.

[Chubistian]

Travis Moore's art is really gorgeous - kinda bummed we didn't get any more issues with him, though I do not want more about "Master Bruce." I think your point about pacing is good - each issue progressively gives a little more information (except for 67, which is a deliberate regression), increasing the tension while also being a great little issue by itself. I think I'll try to post my thoughts on #62 tonight, but my first thought is that the variant cover by Frank Miller is actually stunning. Unlike most of Miller's recent artwork (and by recent I mean 20 years), this is deeply emotive and effective for me. It's not the "grit your teeth" Batman, it's a melancholy, sad Batman, and I love it - I actually special ordered this cover. Curious to know what people think of this cover specifically.

I like the Frank Miller variant. Nice composition and colors. I like the overall feel the cover gives, melancholy but in a subtle way. I agree with your analysis of it. I would have prefered this cover over the Batman #61 cover, variant or regular, because I like neither, while I really like both Batman #62 covers

[millernumber1]

Okay! #62: Knightmares Part 2: Lost

First off, it took me until the third Knightmare to really get into it. I have more appreciation for this issue after the fact, and this reread showed me themes that the rest of the Knightmares illuminate, like being lost, but it was still a bit of a tough issue for me to crack. It doesn't help that I'm just not a huge fan of Gerads. This is good stuff, but I don't like Pyg, and I don't really like the way Gerads draws. The sheer amount of blood just isn't interesting to me, either.

That being said, this is probably the closest King gets to doing a pure pastiche of Frank Miller style monologue, and it's pretty good. I also really like the Pygmalion bit - though I feel like its one of the pieces that isn't fully followed up on. Batman thinks he's created the love his family has for him - but I think that's not the healthiest attitude. I wish he'd see he earned it, rather than created it, and that doesn't quite fall in place in the end. But the Catwoman stuff - that does work.

I hope others have a bit more insight into this issue. Even now, I don't know why Damian is Pyg in the end.

[Valentis]

I am thrilled Catwoman is pregnant. DC better not do the predictable thing by allowing a miscarriage or getting an abortion.

Bruce and Selina should have and raise this baby together.

[millernumber1]

I am thrilled Catwoman is pregnant. DC better not do the predictable thing by allowing a miscarriage or getting an abortion.

Bruce and Selina should have and raise this baby together.

I'm pretty sure this will be a future story.

[Chubistian]

Okay! #62: Knightmares Part 2: Lost

First off, it took me until the third Knightmare to really get into it. I have more appreciation for this issue after the fact, and this reread showed me themes that the rest of the Knightmares illuminate, like being lost, but it was still a bit of a tough issue for me to crack. It doesn't help that I'm just not a huge fan of Gerads. This is good stuff, but I don't like Pyg, and I don't really like the way Gerads draws. The sheer amount of blood just isn't interesting to me, either.

That being said, this is probably the closest King gets to doing a pure pastiche of Frank Miller style monologue, and it's pretty good. I also really like the Pygmalion bit - though I feel like its one of the pieces that isn't fully followed up on. Batman thinks he's created the love his family has for him - but I think that's not the healthiest attitude. I wish he'd see he earned it, rather than created it, and that doesn't quite fall in place in the end. But the Catwoman stuff - that does work.

I hope others have a bit more insight into this issue. Even now, I don't know why Damian is Pyg in the end.

As a big fan of Gerads style, visually I do love this issue. I think Tom King's technique of monologue works even when it is not especially original for a Batman story, because it's such an unique technique in this run to have Batman as a traditional first person narrator, that it fits pretty well.

About earning or creating the love the Batfamily has for Batman, as happens many times in this long run, sometimes I think there're big differences in what Batman thinks of himself and the world surrounding him and how things truly are. But as you say, that particular line of thought isn't followed up in the issues to come, but I think we can see that Tom King (and Tim Seeley) think of the Batfamily as earned love, as shown in Grayson.

I can't make a solid argument for Damian's especific participation over any other member of the Batfamily, so I don't know if any other Robin could have worked in this issue's final page or it had to be Damian, but Tom King has used Damian a lot and has given him an special focus in some of his stories (Grayson; Rules of engagement; City of Bane). I think Damian represents the true over the fiction Batman has built surrounding this true (Pyg/Pygmalion/the ideal he made of his relationship with Selina that turned out in one of his worst moments ever)