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  1. #46
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana500 View Post
    Good News Troops!

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/01...woman-special/


    Attachment 91615
    Does this mean Helena is confirmed?
    I hope this is the Lee Weeks special!
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  2. #47
    Mighty Member Katana500's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    I hope this is the Lee Weeks special!
    Me too that was one of my favourite issues!

  3. #48
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    Wait, so this is like a separate one off or something?

    I really hope this is actually Helena Wayne and not the daughter she had with Slam Bradley or something. Given the second annual and Selina's mention of Helena to Bruce when they were on the beach, I assume it's their child.

  4. #49
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    I would assume it's Helena, their child, but also possibly the inspiration for the name (e.g. Helena was someone at the orphanage). No real reason, other than that King's couple has a real sweet/bittersweet dual tone when it comes to them and I think Helena will be named appropriately.
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  5. #50
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob.schoonover View Post
    I would assume it's Helena, their child, but also possibly the inspiration for the name (e.g. Helena was someone at the orphanage). No real reason, other than that King's couple has a real sweet/bittersweet dual tone when it comes to them and I think Helena will be named appropriately.
    I got the same idea
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  6. #51
    Astonishing Member Inversed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katana500 View Post
    Good News Troops!

    https://www.bleedingcool.com/2020/01...woman-special/


    Attachment 91615
    Does this mean Helena is confirmed?
    This being called the "Catwoman Special" makes me wonder if we'll end up getting a "Batman Special" too and that BOTH will be done by Weeks? I assumed that Weeks' original story for Annual #4 was gonna be the one the Special, just slightly extended, and the original solicit if I recall didn't seem to have any reference towards Catwoman or Helena, so this might be something new.

    King has teased Helena being a factor into the story, so I imagine some point in Bat/Cat she'll come into play. I do agree with some others that this story will most likely be the origin for why they choose that name for her.
    Current Reading List: Amazing Spider-Man, Spider-Gwen: Ghost Spider, Sonic The Hedgehog, Absolute Carnage, Friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man, Gwenpool Strikes Back, Runaways, The White Trees

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    So on to "I Am Suicide"!

    So let me just go on record as saying I tend to think "I Am Suicide" and "I Am Bane" are King's weakest arcs, in terms of execution, and a re-read didn't change my opinion. That said, 'weak' is a relative term when I'm talking King's Batman, and I still love it, warts and all.

    The Good:

    --The heist concept.

    --Batman's interesting picks for the team.

    --Bruce palling around with Bronze Tiger. Their banter reminded me of the good-natured sparring matches Bruce had with Dick Grayson in the 70s and 80s comics.

    --The Killing Joke homage with the Catwoman twist.

    --Bruce's admission to Catwoman that he will break whatever laws he needs to break and use whomever he needs to use. One of the things I love the most about King's Batman is that he's refreshingly honest and self-aware.

    --Bane's dialogue about how him and Bruce both go seeking monsters to kill them.

    The Bad:

    --I've never quite understood why Arkham is housing a death row inmate instead of Blackgate? Maybe they have better facilities for 'problem prisoners' but it would be helpful if their specific arrangement was mentioned?

    --Arkham treating Catwoman like she's the worst inmate he's ever had when she's been accused of killing terrorists, not innocent citizens like the other criminals. Unless we're to assume it's not public knowledge the victims were terrorists? It seems like even if her guilt is presumed it puts her more on level with someone like Deathstroke than Joker? Scary dude but not treated like the plague by people who know Zsasz.

    --Batman's plan is...not good. At all. Things just fall into place for him at key points because Bane is either incompetent or Batman's 'victory' was part of Bane's long-term plan.

    --Batman's over-the-top physical feats lack any dramatic consequence to ground them. Batman recovers from a devastating fight with Bane by popping his back, seemingly none the worse for wear. Knightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend had a supernatural rationale for Bruce's healing and Kindra Kinsolving paid a price for doing so. Compare this with the jetliner scene from "I Am Gotham," where Batman's incredible feat would have killed him if not for Gotham and Gotham Girl's intervention. Or Batman's later fight with KGBeast, which has a bit more grounded rationale for the way things play out.
    Last edited by David Walton; 01-15-2020 at 09:28 AM.

  8. #53
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Excellent points! I Am Suicide is the first time I actually sat up and took notice of this run (since it took a long time for me to warm up to a solo Batman run, especially considering I had Tynion's Tec engaging me so intensely with its depiction of the Batfamily I particularly love). The first issue is just phenomenal (#9), with the buildup to Catwoman's reveal, and her final "meow." (I still think that her glowing green eyes seemed like it was hinting she had some kind of superpowers, but eh, that's just an odd coloring decision, I guess. ) The rest of the issues for the arc do fall a little flat, with the back-breaking happening so quickly and then being fixed so easily.

    My bet on Catwoman being treated the worst? Some of the terrorists killed were very highly connected, so the people prosecuting her were interested in enacting vengeance.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
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  9. #54
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    Excellent points! I Am Suicide is the first time I actually sat up and took notice of this run (since it took a long time for me to warm up to a solo Batman run, especially considering I had Tynion's Tec engaging me so intensely with its depiction of the Batfamily I particularly love). The first issue is just phenomenal (#9), with the buildup to Catwoman's reveal, and her final "meow." (I still think that her glowing green eyes seemed like it was hinting she had some kind of superpowers, but eh, that's just an odd coloring decision, I guess. )
    You could make the argument that King's Selina Kyle is a meta-human on the level of Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman. Her costume from Batman Returns costume is even utilized in "The Gift."

    The most interesting thing about the eyes, though, is the way King constantly references eye color in the wedding issue. So coloring mistake or not, maybe the idea first presented itself here?

    The rest of the issues for the arc do fall a little flat, with the back-breaking happening so quickly and then being fixed so easily.
    And that's nothing compared to "I Am Bane"'s magical head-butt! After that King seems much more thoughtful about the way physical confrontations are presented.

    My bet on Catwoman being treated the worst? Some of the terrorists killed were very highly connected, so the people prosecuting her were interested in enacting vengeance.
    I buy that. The weird thing is Arkham's response. Though maybe we can chalk that up to Selina tormenting him as much as she can.

  10. #55
    Incredible Member Chubistian's Avatar
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    As I have said before, this was the time I fell in love with Tom King's run after being lukewarm on I Am Gotham. Does this mean that I think I Am Suicide is perfect? No, I actually think it has plenty of problems, especially when it comes to the plan that requieres Batman going through a big army of soldiers with fireguns. But the layers that the story introduces regarding Bane, Catwoman and Batman are what make this arc so special to me.

    "I will never stop". This phrase is what defines part of the whole run and this storyline in particular, which opposes Bane's offering ("You can always stop"). Maybe Bane's motivation in the I Am saga becomes weaker knowing that he had a plan to defeat Batman from the beginning instead of being some sort of victim of Batman's crusade when he's stripped away from the Psycho Pirate and back on Venom. But it's interesting to note that he offered exactly what Thomas Wayne also wanted to achieve, which makes their alliance feasible, that Bruce stops his role as a vigilante. Bane doesn't care about killing Batman nor does he care about Bruce Wayne, he wants to break Batman's will so that he decides to not take the cowl back again.

    The bat/cat relationship is perfectly developed. I'm not a shipper, so I don't care who Bruce's partner is, but he has had a long list of lovers many who aren't well delevoped, at least in their relationship with Bruce. I think of people like Rachel Caspian or Silver St. Cloud (though the latter was well developed as a character, her love affair with Bruce was kinda rushed)

    I think Arkham fears Selina because of the way she killed those terrorist, which shows how dangerous she could be out of control, and he was also comparing her to the other inmates Batman wanted to free, that don't come nowhere near her in the crimes they committed
    Last edited by Chubistian; 01-15-2020 at 09:54 AM.
    "The Batman is Gotham City. I will watch him. Study him. And when I know him and why he does not kill, I will know this city. And then Gotham will be MINE!"-BANE

    "We're monsters, buddy. Plain and simple. I don't dress it up with fancy names like mutant or post-human; men were born crueler than Apes and we were born crueler than men. It's just the natural order of things"-ULTIMATE SABRETOOTH

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chubistian View Post
    But the layers that the story introduces regarding Bane, Catwoman and Batman are what make this arc so special to me.
    Agreed. I think the emotional connections King builds here, and keeps building on as his run progresses, are nothing short of brilliant. And that's why I love the story even though it falls short in terms of execution. And I'm very happy that after "I Am Bane," the execution rises to a level worthy of the concepts introduced.

    I think Arkham fears Selina because of the way she killed those terrorist, which shows how dangerous she could be out of control, and he was also comparing her to the other inmates Batman wanted to free, that don't come nowhere near her in the crimes they committed
    I buy that. Comparing her to Bronze Tiger or Jewelee as opposed to Zsasz.

  12. #57
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    You could make the argument that King's Selina Kyle is a meta-human on the level of Michelle Pfeiffer's Catwoman. Her costume from Batman Returns costume is even utilized in "The Gift."

    The most interesting thing about the eyes, though, is the way King constantly references eye color in the wedding issue. So coloring mistake or not, maybe the idea first presented itself here?

    And that's nothing compared to "I Am Bane"'s magical head-butt! After that King seems much more thoughtful about the way physical confrontations are presented.

    I buy that. The weird thing is Arkham's response. Though maybe we can chalk that up to Selina tormenting him as much as she can.
    She's never really shown to have that kind of cat-telepathy, though. She's just a "normal" superhero in terms of fighting and toughness.

    I do wonder. It's such a strange eye color choice if you're not making a meta-human statement.

    The headbutt was supposed to be silly, though. I do think King hasn't quite figured out how to calibrate a Batman fight's stakes and consequences, but that one at least was supposed to be implausible so the reveal in 50 and 72 made more sense.

    Selina definitely would torment Arkham, and Arkham would totally deserve it.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Some other things of note.

    "I Am Suicide" retcons elements of the "Vengeance of Bane" one-shot. Bane's mother, for instance, seems to have died a violent death in King's version, whereas she just lost her will to live in VOB and passed from natural causes. Also there's a different reason why Bane gets put in the cell. In VOB it's because he's stirring up trouble and becoming a legend. In IAS it appears to be because his cellmate doesn't want to deal with him? Bird's first appearance is altered as well. In going over this, I'm honestly not sure what the intention behind the retcons is? I don't see how they serve King any better thematically but maybe I'm missing something?

  14. #59
    I am a diamond, Ms. Pryde millernumber1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Some other things of note.

    "I Am Suicide" retcons elements of the "Vengeance of Bane" one-shot. Bane's mother, for instance, seems to have died a violent death in King's version, whereas she just lost her will to live in VOB and passed from natural causes. Also there's a different reason why Bane gets put in the cell. In VOB it's because he's stirring up trouble and becoming a legend. In IAS it appears to be because his cellmate doesn't want to deal with him? Bird's first appearance is altered as well. In going over this, I'm honestly not sure what the intention behind the retcons is? I don't see how they serve King any better thematically but maybe I'm missing something?
    I'd have to read those two back to back. I know King reread Vengeance of Bane before writing I Am Suicide, so maybe he's just trying to give a different mood - there are ways I think I could explain those inconsistencies without it being a full retcon.
    "We're the same thing, you and I. We're both lies that eventually became the truth." Lara Notsil, Star Wars: X-Wing: Solo Command, by Aaron Allston
    "All that is not eternal is eternally out of date." C. S. Lewis, The Four Loves
    "There's room in our line of work for hope, too." Stephanie Brown, Batgirl, by Bryan Q. Miller
    Stephanie Brown Wiki, My Batman Universe Reviews

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millernumber1 View Post
    The headbutt was supposed to be silly, though. I do think King hasn't quite figured out how to calibrate a Batman fight's stakes and consequences, but that one at least was supposed to be implausible so the reveal in 50 and 72 made more sense.
    I don't know that the headbutt was intentionally silly, but even if it was, Batman should have been the first to realize it since he wasn't emotionally compromised until Catwoman's departure. But I do think you're right that King hadn't worked out his approach to the physical conflicts yet. The fight with KGBeast is much more in keeping with his thoughtfulness. There is still a touch of over-the-top badassery, but it works because the outcome essentially comes down to a bit of luck and a dirty trick rather than sheer willpower.

    Selina definitely would torment Arkham, and Arkham would totally deserve it.
    LOL

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