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  1. #391
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    Put Adam back under Ewing

  2. #392
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    Nothing worse than your favourite character getting badly written. I had to suffer Bendis' Sentry for years.
    As the above poster states: back under Ewing, please.

  3. #393
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    SPOILERS. Stop reading now if you don't want to know what happened in Doctor Doom #7. I'm too pissed off to hide anything.


    To recap, Reed asked Adam to pursue Doom with an eye to getting Victor's help with resolving the Black Hole on the Moon. Reed earlier indicated that Adam is likely as smart as Doom, which makes me wonder why Reed and Adam couldn't solve the issue, but whatever. At any rate Doom formulates a plan that Adam is to execute by entering the event horizon and using his antimatter energies to expunge the black hole. We get an appearance from Adam's daughter, Adrienne, but other than helping Adam with putting his suit on, apparently her genius played no role in resolving the issue either. This basically comes down to Doom figuring out how to solve it and Adam being the gopher. Anyway, Adam enters the event horizon needing a suit. Contrast that with several other characters like, say, Adam Warlock, who have flown into black holes without any special armor. Apparently, any time Adam goes anywhere he needs a suit, whether it's the Neutral Zone or a black hole. Anyway... Adam churns out all the negative energy at his command, but -- surprise, surprise -- he runs out of energy. Let me remind the gallery that Adam and Anti-Man share the same link to a limitless energy source/event horizon. But apparently when Adam is the one tapping it, it's not so limitless after all. Doom's math is right, but Adam being the right "cosmic" powerhouse to solve the problem is where this plan goes sideways. Wow. So there Adam drifts, depleted of all of his anti-matter energy until Otto Octavius shows up, presumably from an alternate Earth, sent there by "World Minister Doom" to aid in closing the black hole. The issue ends, "To be continued."

    To summarize, apparently Adam is neither smart nor powerful enough to solve a cosmic challenge as relatively mundane as mending a small black hole and he should probably leave the intellectual heavy lifting to Reed, Doom and apparently Otto, and the massively cosmic scale feats to Sentry, Thor, Silver Surfer and others. Message received loud and clear, gentlemen. (Who needs microaggressions when you can just belittle the brother on panel?)

    That said, if you're one for just seeing Blue Marvel on panel in any capacity, skip on over to your local comics store or Comixology. This one's right up your alley. It sounds like Adam is going to do what the Doors said and "break on through to the other side" with alternate Earth Otto Octavius riding shotgun. There are only three issues remaining as the Doctor Doom series ends with issue #10. That's possibly three more chances to see Worldbreaker Blue Marvel, er, I mean Rune King Blue Marvel, no, wait, what I meant to say was God Emperor Adam, no, that's not quite right, either. I meant The Immortal Blue Marvel... dammit, no, no, wrong, wrong, wrong. Well, hell with it, you know what I mean! Chop, chop.
    The thing is, in comics the notion of limitless is usually hyperbole unless we're talking about an Infinity Gauntlet or the One Above All. Limitless in most cases simply means a lot, even for comsic being.

  4. #394
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    I didn't expect Adrienne to be the only one of BM's children to appear in comics not written by Ewing. Twice AFAIK. The first time was in a Darkhawk mini.

    I guess being part of Project Pegasus helps, although that also makes her a potential redshirt text time a villain blows it up.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  5. #395
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    I didn't expect Adrienne to be the only one of BM's children to appear in comics not written by Ewing. Twice AFAIK. The first time was in a Darkhawk mini.

    I guess being part of Project Pegasus helps, although that also makes her a potential redshirt text time a villain blows it up.
    Even if she were killed, she'd probably just come back with super powers.

  6. #396
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    The thing is, in comics the notion of limitless is usually hyperbole unless we're talking about an Infinity Gauntlet or the One Above All. Limitless in most cases simply means a lot, even for comsic being.
    It's a small black hole. There are black holes the size of whole galaxies according to some astronomers. This was not that. However you define "limitless", Adam's showing in Doom was far less output than we'd see from someone like Havok or one of Galactus' lesser heralds. The Quantum Bands probably could have sealed this and they're less powerful than the event horizon between the positive and negative matter universes that powers Adam and Anti-Man. I appreciate the "in all fairness" take, 'Pac, but for once let's call this for what it is -- grossly underwhelming. Unless, again, the purpose is to have Adam come back with a stronger finish. I doubt it, but we'll see.

  7. #397
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    I didn't expect Adrienne to be the only one of BM's children to appear in comics not written by Ewing. Twice AFAIK. The first time was in a Darkhawk mini.

    I guess being part of Project Pegasus helps, although that also makes her a potential redshirt text time a villain blows it up.
    I like that Adrienne appeared. It suggests that (1.) the writer did his homework, and (2.) perhaps there's a bigger role for her in the MU down the road. But they could also be setting up a situation where Adam dies and passes his powers on to Adrienne. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

  8. #398
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    It's a small black hole. There are black holes the size of whole galaxies according to some astronomers. This was not that. However you define "limitless", Adam's showing in Doom was far less output than we'd see from someone like Havok or one of Galactus' lesser heralds. The Quantum Bands probably could have sealed this and they're less powerful than the event horizon between the positive and negative matter universes that powers Adam and Anti-Man. I appreciate the "in all fairness" take, 'Pac, but for once let's call this for what it is -- grossly underwhelming. Unless, again, the purpose is to have Adam come back with a stronger finish. I doubt it, but we'll see.
    We are talking about a black hole here. The fact that he couldn't seal it obviously means it's not any sort of uber feat. But I don't think we can fairly say being unable to close a freaking black hole is grossly underwhelming either. That's a pretty tall order. MAYBE the Silver Surfer could close black holes, but I don't think anyone short of him could have done better than Adam. In fact I'm pretty sure ANY character would have failed, including the Surfer, cause obviously that's what the story requires at this point.
    Last edited by XPac; 09-24-2020 at 03:30 PM.

  9. #399
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    There's no point in that. What's done is done. The best we can hope for at this point is that before it's all said and done the writer redeems Blue Marvel in some way with the literary equivalent of the "rope a dope." Adam takes his shots in the early rounds, but finishes strong justifying why he was used in the story.

    If not, oh well. Maybe the next writer to use BM will lend a more accurate, if not favorable, pen.
    There is a point to it because if other writers see that, they may end up doing the same thing and write future stories where Blue Marvel runs out of power.
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  10. #400
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    We are talking about a black hole here. The fact that he couldn't seal it obviously means it's not any sort of uber feat. But I don't think we can fairly say being unable to close a freaking black hole is grossly underwhelming either. That's a pretty tall order. MAYBE the Silver Surfer could close black holes, but I don't think anyone short of him could have done better than Adam. In fact I'm pretty sure ANY character would have failed, including the Surfer, cause obviously that's what the story requires at this point.
    Of course it's what the story requires. But you are avoiding the obvious, that Adam is once again being depicted as someone who underperforms, especially relative to his "white" counterparts and it's not necessarily because the task is greater than the sort of challenges that they have faced. When will the story not require Adam to come up short when his peers routinely triumph, even if cheat codes and hacks are involved? So long as that continues Adam won't win many fans. People like underdogs and lost causes, but mostly because the underdog eventually wins.

  11. #401
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Of course it's what the story requires. But you are avoiding the obvious, that Adam is once again being depicted as someone who underperforms, especially relative to his "white" counterparts and it's not necessarily because the task is greater than the sort of challenges that they have faced. When will the story not require Adam to come up short when his peers routinely triumph, even if cheat codes and hacks are involved? So long as that continues Adam won't win many fans. People like underdogs and lost causes, but mostly because the underdog eventually wins.
    It'll require him to not come up short when it's time to actually resolve the issue. We're still obviously in the middle of it all. Adam's not going to close the black hole in this issue, then spend the next couple eating a sandwich. It's a big enough problem that it'll take a couple issues and probably require a bit of help. And if any of his other white counter parts were in his place, the story would go exactly the same way. If this were Quasar, he would have failed too. Any hero at THIS point in the story would have.

  12. #402
    Mighty Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    It'll require him to not come up short when it's time to actually resolve the issue. We're still obviously in the middle of it all. Adam's not going to close the black hole in this issue, then spend the next couple eating a sandwich. It's a big enough problem that it'll take a couple issues and probably require a bit of help. And if any of his other white counter parts were in his place, the story would go exactly the same way. If this were Quasar, he would have failed too. Any hero at THIS point in the story would have.
    What you are overlooking is the fact that this isn't Blue Marvel's story, and therefore there's no requirement for him to come out on top, and get the big moments. With all that being said, you still have to look at the trend of nerfing Blue Marvel in the few appearances that he's had, and start to see the problem. It's almost like the spirit of Coates is being channeled into the writing of Blue Marvel.
    Last edited by dkrook; 09-25-2020 at 05:53 AM.

  13. #403
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    What you are overlooking is the fact that this isn't Blue Marvel's story, and therefore there's no requirement for him to come out on top, and get the big moments. With all that being said, you still have to look at the trend of nerfing Blue Marvel in the few appearances that he's had, and start to see the problem. It's almost like the spirit of Coates is being channeled into the writing of Blue Marvel.
    I'm not overlooking that at all... that's why I said it'll take a couple issues and probably require help. It'll probably take a group effort from several characters, Adam included. But you bring up a valid point... it's not Adams story, so no he shouldn't necessarily resolve he problem single handed in someone elses book. Which is part of the reason why that didn't happen here. Though even if it were his story, we'd get the exact same result because again we're only in the middle of it. He's not going to close it now and spend the next couple if issues eating a sandwich.

    As far as Blue Adam getting nerfed... I don't necessarily agree that this is the case in THIS PARTICULAR instance since again we're talking about a freaking black hole ... black holes can swallow stars. These things are no joke. But in the general sense YES characters at this power level do tend to get nerfed when the story requires it. That's why people like Surfer, who in theory should almost NEVER lose a fight, can be restrained by arm bars. When you're written at a certain power level that's realistically a dozen leagues above 99% of the heroes on earth, you tend to get written down a bit. Ask ANY Thor fan... they'll gladly spend a week citing the number of instances Aaron nerfed him over the past couple years. The difference being a guy like Thor has a large enough body of work to where his high level showings can balance that out. That's the upside of having hundreds of issues of a solo book spanning decades. Adam unfortunately isn't as lucky. He usually shows up in team settings, where Thor level characters DO unfortunately tend to get nerfed. And yeah, it kinda sucks... but it's something you just sort of have to expect at this point.

  14. #404
    Mighty Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I'm not overlooking that at all... that's why I said it'll take a couple issues and probably require help. It'll probably take a group effort from several characters, Adam included. But you bring up a valid point... it's not Adams story, so no he shouldn't necessarily resolve he problem single handed in someone elses book. Which is part of the reason why that didn't happen here. Though even if it were his story, we'd get the exact same result because again we're only in the middle of it. He's not going to close it now and spend the next couple if issues eating a sandwich.

    As far as Blue Adam getting nerfed... I don't necessarily agree that this is the case in THIS PARTICULAR instance since again we're talking about a freaking black hole ... black holes can swallow stars. These things are no joke. But in the general sense YES characters at this power level do tend to get nerfed when the story requires it. That's why people like Surfer, who in theory should almost NEVER lose a fight, can be restrained by arm bars. When you're written at a certain power level that's realistically a dozen leagues above 99% of the heroes on earth, you tend to get written down a bit. Ask ANY Thor fan... they'll gladly spend a week citing the number of instances Aaron nerfed him over the past couple years. The difference being a guy like Thor has a large enough body of work to where his high level showings can balance that out. That's the upside of having hundreds of issues of a solo book spanning decades. Adam unfortunately isn't as lucky. He usually shows up in team settings, where Thor level characters DO unfortunately tend to get nerfed. And yeah, it kinda sucks... but it's something you just sort of have to expect at this point.
    What's your opinion on Silver Sable being able to body-slam Blue Marvel? Do YOU think she should have been able to do that, considering Adam is a flying brick and has 100+ class strength and is in the same league as Thor and Hulk?
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  15. #405
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    She should not have been able to do that, but it's obvious that this writer doesn't care about power levels.
    The same Silver Sable did hold her own against cosmic powered Victorious, had Agent Zero taking down an armored Doom while a Doom without armor defeated freaking Taskmaster.

    And in Iron Man by same writer, Iron Man defeated Terrax with ease. I know the poor guy is a jobber, but a herald should not been defeated in the first two pages of a comics like he was a mere member of the Wrecking Crew.
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