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  1. #496
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    I don't care much about the Silver Sable thing.

    What I don' like in this interview is the talk of Adam being this virtuous character who will lost his innocence. Didn't he already lost it the very moment Kennedy told him to back down? Or when he lost his son Kevin? Or when his best friend murdered his wife who was actually a SHIELD agent who married him to monitor him?
    He is not a newbie hero, he has been on the field longer than Doom.
    Great point.

    We can't forget that Adam is also a veteran of the Korean War. His innocence was lost some time ago. His virtue was lost some time ago. He's killed. He's taken lives. He's now a man operating on the other side of that failing. He's post-redemption. Cantwell doesn't get that. I suspect Cantwell believes that a rational actor can only have skin in the game if he or she is somehow sullied (i.e., morally and ethically complicated) -- like Dr. Doom and Morgan le Fey. The post-redemptive man doesn't need to prove that he has skin in the game. You can't write Adam like his biblical namesake. He's not Adam before taking a bite of the apple. He's not dewy-eyed and nave to the ways of the world or the workings of the universe. Hardly.

    I'm not saying that Doom can't share knowledge that he's picked up along the way, especially as it pertains to the mystical aspects of the universe, which Adam refuses to explore. But lost innocence? We'll have to see how this plays out, but if Cantwell does what I think he's going to do, it's a mistake.
    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 10-10-2020 at 01:27 PM.

  2. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Great point.

    We can't forget that Adam is also a veteran of the Korean War. His innocence was lost some time ago. His virtue was lost some time ago. He's killed. He's taken lives. He's now a man operating on the other side of that failing. He's post-redemption. Cantwell doesn't get that. I suspect Cantwell believes that a rational actor can only have skin in the game if he or she is somehow sullied (i.e., morally and ethically complicated) -- like Dr. Doom and Morgan le Fey. The post-redemptive man doesn't need to prove that he has skin in the game. You can't write Adam like his biblical namesake. He's not Adam before taking a bite of the apple. He's not dewy-eyed and nave to the ways of the world or the workings of the universe. Hardly.

    I'm not saying that Doom can't share knowledge that he's picked up along the way, especially as it pertains to the mystical aspects of the universe, which Adam refuses to explore. But lost innocence? We'll have to see how this plays out, but if Cantwell does what I think he's going to do, it's a mistake.
    I find it funny how every single soldier in fiction has seen combat at some point.

  3. #498
    BCB 4sake Baned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Well, Cantwell did address the fact in his podcast that he's heard from complaints from Blue Marvel fans. I don't think we can say someone twisted his arm to to use Blue Marvel or why would he play (apparently) a large role at the end? But it's your choice if you want to pass on it. I'll be posting a review with spoilers thread when they issue comes out at the end of the month.
    Yeah still going be to pass it’s obvious he has no idea how to properly write for BM & just used another character. Cardiac, Hobie Brown, Centurius, Dr.Nightshade & or Doctor Positron (Adam son) would been better fits for this. Without the writer having to giving bs explanations showing his clear Lack of understanding & also jobbing the character.
    Last edited by 4sake Baned; 10-10-2020 at 04:05 PM.

  4. #499
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugiwara View Post
    I don't care much about the Silver Sable thing.

    What I don' like in this interview is the talk of Adam being this virtuous character who will lost his innocence. Didn't he already lost it the very moment Kennedy told him to back down? Or when he lost his son Kevin? Or when his best friend murdered his wife who was actually a SHIELD agent who married him to monitor him?
    He is not a newbie hero, he has been on the field longer than Doom.
    Depending on how you interpret Millars FF run, Doom has been on the field for billions of years.

    But yeah ... Adam is no newbie. He's been around the block longer than a lot of people realize.
    Last edited by XPac; 10-10-2020 at 08:31 PM.

  5. #500
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I find it funny how every single soldier in fiction has seen combat at some point.
    It's part of the mythos at this point. It's like everyone thinks that every cowboy in the wild west had a horse and a gun. Then you go look at photos, or research the period and discover that most owned neither.

  6. #501
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Depending on how you interpret Millars FF run, Doom has been on the field for billions of years.
    It's no wonder that Doom has never gone permanently insane between the godlike power and the billion years existence. The mind is only so elastic. Even Eternals, virtual immortals, can snap after a few millenia. (Thank Kronos for the Uni-Mind.) But, of course, it's Doom, so it's ok to Vandal Savage him.

    Jokes aside, I'd love to see for once what exactly Adam learned in his almost century of existence in the modern world. Sick of people writing him like he's some babe in the woods. I'd pay good money to see him call Reed Richards to task for his condescending, passive aggressive, microaggressions for starters.

  7. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Depending on how you interpret Millars FF run, Doom has been on the field for billions of years.

    But yeah ... Adam is no newbie. He's been around the block longer than a lot of people realize.
    Actually, in Thunderbolts, the team was bouncing through time, and rescued Doom from the past. In classic Vic Dick tradition, he stole their time machine to return home while leaving them stranded

  8. #503
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    It's no wonder that Doom has never gone permanently insane between the godlike power and the billion years existence. The mind is only so elastic. Even Eternals, virtual immortals, can snap after a few millenia. (Thank Kronos for the Uni-Mind.) But, of course, it's Doom, so it's ok to Vandal Savage him.

    Jokes aside, I'd love to see for once what exactly Adam learned in his almost century of existence in the modern world. Sick of people writing him like he's some babe in the woods. I'd pay good money to see him call Reed Richards to task for his condescending, passive aggressive, microaggressions for starters.
    Same thing happened to Sentry. There's a segment of fans who demand that characters 'pay their dues', which is a frankly absurd prospect. In reality, it's just another way to protect the status quo predominance of older characters and small-c fan conservatism at work.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 10-17-2020 at 03:51 AM.

  9. #504
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Same thing happened to Sentry. There's a segment of fans who demand that characters 'pay their dues', which is a frankly absurd prospect. In reality, it's just another way to protect the status quo predominance of older characters and small-c fan conservatism at work.
    You're right about that.

    I'm not expecting any miracles, but even if Reed, Doom, Otto and others are incapable of seeing Adam as an equal, the all-knowing narrator should pick spots to prove them wrong. I imagine cosmic level super scientists like Adam that have been around for almost a century probably know forgotten secrets of the cosmos that few others know. There's also Adam's friendship with Uatu. You have to wonder what those two shared on science, advanced technology, and the workings of the multiverse. Uatu never was one to totally commit to his oath of non-interference. Especially when he harbors an affinity for someone.

  10. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    Same thing happened to Sentry. There's a segment of fans who demand that characters 'pay their dues', which is a frankly absurd prospect. In reality, it's just another way to protect the status quo predominance of older characters and small-c fan conservatism at work.
    Err, Sentry rolled into the scene and almost instantly had characters fawning all over him. They do it almost every appearance, frankly.

    All things considered, Adam has already paid his dues. His intro to the MCU was handled well, and Ewing developed him nicely. Any writer who has Reed or whomever dismissing him is simply a poor writer at this point.

  11. #506
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Err, Sentry rolled into the scene and almost instantly had characters fawning all over him. They do it almost every appearance, frankly.

    All things considered, Adam has already paid his dues. His intro to the MCU was handled well, and Ewing developed him nicely. Any writer who has Reed or whomever dismissing him is simply a poor writer at this point.
    Not when you consider there is precedent in Reed's behavior. He dismissed Victor's device for contacting the netherworld (Fraction's run) even though he was dragged down into Mephisto's realm himself back in Byrne's FF. He thought it was insane to try and contact the dead even though he used Victor's work to contact Ben who was dead at the time in the Hereafter arc. Then you recall he told Hank that he knew more about Pym particles than Hank did in Mighty Avengers.

  12. #507
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Not when you consider there is precedent in Reed's behavior. He dismissed Victor's device for contacting the netherworld (Fraction's run) even though he was dragged down into Mephisto's realm himself back in Byrne's FF. He thought it was insane to try and contact the dead even though he used Victor's work to contact Ben who was dead at the time in the Hereafter arc. Then you recall he told Hank that he knew more about Pym particles than Hank did in Mighty Avengers.
    No doubt, Reed condescends pretty much to everyone. Sometimes subtly, other times bluntly. Reed is probably the only character with an "evil" counterpart that isn't antipodally different from him in terms of philosophy and perspective. The approach is the only thing that really distinguishes them, and I dare say, the Maker and Reed would probably make the same choices 99% of the time if no one was watching.

  13. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    No doubt, Reed condescends pretty much to everyone. Sometimes subtly, other times bluntly. Reed is probably the only character with an "evil" counterpart that isn't antipodally different from him in terms of philosophy and perspective. The approach is the only thing that really distinguishes them, and I dare say, the Maker and Reed would probably make the same choices 99% of the time if no one was watching.
    Sadly, that's because all genius-type characters have the same personality. Intelligence means having little-to-no ethics.

  14. #509
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Err, Sentry rolled into the scene and almost instantly had characters fawning all over him. They do it almost every appearance, frankly.
    'oh no, he's so powerful!' is not fawning. Honestly, I doubt you would complain about Cap being fawned over, or Thor being fawned over, It's only obnoxious in the case of a character who hasn't 'earned' it, right?'

    And none of this stopped them from portraying him as a boob who got owned a lot and didn't know how to use his powers at all, which I'm sure helped. The same thing that is happening to Adam now.
    Last edited by Tendrin; 10-18-2020 at 02:00 AM.

  15. #510
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    The reality is that there is no path for Adam to earn anything. Marvel won't sanction it. So what will happen is Blue Marvel will be shown with amazing abilities by writers favorable to him only to be undone by writers who could care less about who he is or what he represents. Sadly, there are far more writers in the latter category and no real support from the base to change their treatment. Based on their handling of him, if Superman was Blue Marvel, DC would be a footnote in history, not existing beyond the first few issues. If Marvel's franchise characters were Blue Marvel, I strongly suspect the same result. It's all in how you write them.

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