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  1. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    You make several great points, but I disagree that having Adam as a backup pleases everyone. I would hate it. Especially since Adam is supposed to be more powerful than Hyperion. Also, I flatly hate the zero sum approach to what Adam brings to the table. I think he should be both the team's scientist and primary heavy hitter. We've already seen writers limit one or the other of those abilities in team settings only to disappoint.

    The only thing left to do is let Adam be what he was meant to be -- the Man of Marvels. He should be written in a way that frankly only gods of myth in the past were described, capable of performing a myriad of wonders at a high level. Take Hermes, for example, who was not only the fastest god, but their best thief and trickster, and one of the gods' best healers. And don't even get me started on other gods like Apollo. I don't see the point in suppressing any of Adam's attributes, although I know writers will do it in order to advance their narratives.

    I'd be in favor of Adam starring with a smaller team of only 3-4 members, like the original Defenders or the aforementioned FF, if it means that he doesn't have to take a back seat to anyone and we get to see more of his powers, not less.
    BM being a team back up heavy already implies that he is more powerful than the primary heavy hitter whereby BM is called in when the team is failing to handle a villainous situation.

    Also we also get to see BM use his abilities more uniquely when handling exotic science than just punching and shooting beams.

    The recent Dr.Doom mini was a great opportunity to show BM use his powers to contain a planet destroying black holes but the writer was ssooooo gung-ho to dumb down BM for whatever hyper-idiotic reason.

  2. #647
    Fantastic Member Common Writer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besouro View Post
    There is nothing wrong with BM being part of a team, must he lead?

    He was fine in Mighty Avengers and Ultimates.

    If BM is to lead any team it should be Mighty Avengers ...the "Avengers" carries more weight than any version of Squadron Supreme.
    Lemme get this straight...

    You're okay with Blue Marvel replacing Luke Cage on Mighty Avengers, but not okay with him replacing Hyperion on Squadron Supreme?

    What about the vitriol from the Luke Cage fans? You don't think it would be wrong to piss on them in order to shoehorn BM as Luke Cage's replacement?

    Even though he's called the Blue Marvel, he's more of a DC Character than a Marvel character.

    Like I've said before, he's 'the Scientist Superman, Who happens to be Black'. In essence, he's 'The Black Man of Tomorrow'.

    What better place for him to be than on Marvel's JLA: the Squadron Supreme?

    Besides, the Avengers brand has always been influenced by the Illuminati and SHIELD. The same SHIELD that was complicit in the Blue Marvel cover-up for decades.

    And Blue Marvel is anti-Illuminati.

    Do you know what hasn't been influenced by the Illuminati nor SHIELD?

    You guessed it: Squadron Supreme.

    So yes, I would like to see The Black Man of Tomorrow lead his own Justice League.

  3. #648
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    So yes, I would like to see The Black Man of Tomorrow lead his own Justice League.
    If that's the case, I would rather have a full 616 Supreme Squadron.
    Something like:
    Blue Marvel
    Moon Knight
    Lyra
    Quasar
    Whiz Kid
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  4. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    Lemme get this straight...

    You're okay with Blue Marvel replacing Luke Cage on Mighty Avengers, but not okay with him replacing Hyperion on Squadron Supreme?

    What about the vitriol from the Luke Cage fans? You don't think it would be wrong to piss on them in order to shoehorn BM as Luke Cage's replacement?
    I personally don't. In fact, I imagine Luke Cage fans care more about him appearing regularly than whether or not he is leading an Avengers team. Most seem to prefer him with Heroes for Hire anyway.

    Even though he's called the Blue Marvel, he's more of a DC Character than a Marvel character.
    The differences between Marvel and DC characters, if any ever existed, have long since eroded.



    Besides, the Avengers brand has always been influenced by the Illuminati and SHIELD. The same SHIELD that was complicit in the Blue Marvel cover-up for decades.

    And Blue Marvel is anti-Illuminati.
    The Avengers have not always been influenced by SHIELD. They operated independently of them for years. If none of the Illuminati members are on an Avengers roster, I doubt Adam would have an issue. He had no problem serving on an Avengers team before.

    Do you know what hasn't been influenced by the Illuminati nor SHIELD?

    You guessed it: Squadron Supreme.
    Wrong. The recent incarnation of Squadron Supreme was formed by Thaddeus Ross and Phil Coulson, a SHIELD agent. Even leaving that aside, the Squadron has a history of actions that are questionable at best, outright evil at worst. Any issues Adam would have with the Avengers, the Illuminati or SHIELD, he'd have with the Squadron tenfold.

  5. #650
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Playing a little devil's advocate here on the whole Blue Marvel replacing Hyperion thing ...


    I think I'd like to see a team that answers the hypothetical, "What If President Kennedy didn't force Blue Marvel to retire?"

    It's the 60s, but we're less than 20 years removed from WWII, less than a decade from the Korean War, and as of 1961, the US was just now ramping up in the Viet Nam conflict. So a militaristic name like the Squadron Supreme definitely makes sense thematically. A retcon like that obviously turns the canon on its ear -- because it leapfrogs the alternate Earth Squadron Supreme and Squadron Sinister, who wouldn't meet the Defenders and Avengers until the 1970s more or less. But this is the 616 Squadron, so it works. Also, in 1961 the country's antiwar sentiment hadn't quite reached the level of outrage and public vitriol that we would see in the late 60s and early 70s. That gives the SS a window to enjoy the goodwill of the public for a handful of years at least.

    So you be Adam Brashear. It's early 1960s and you realize that it wouldn't hurt to have a team, because the world seems on the verge of total chaos and you can't do it all alone. Who do ask to join the team? What does your Squadron Supreme look like? Given the original 7 JLA founders template, I think it looks something like this:

    *Blue Marvel (Superman) - 'Nuff said

    *Namor (Aquaman) -- Even if he only has a plaque on the wall as an honorary member, I don't see Adam starting a team without the Prince of Atlantis

    *Scarlet Scarab (Green Lantern) -- I know, I know, Scarlet Scarab is really an homage to the Blue Beetle, but given that the Ruby Scarab can achieve a number of magical effects, including erecting force fields, and it eventually needs to be recharged, well, it might as well be a Lantern ring.

    *Khonshu/Moon Knight (Batman) -- Khonshu had a number of avatars over the years. The problem is that he has a non-intrusion pact with the other gods, and he's about to cross his last line.

    *Spitfire (Flash) -- The Beatles, the Rolling Stones, the Who and the Kinks weren't the only ones that came to America as part of the 1960s British Invasion.

    *Lady Sif/ Valkyrie (Wonder Woman) -- Sent to Midgard initially to act as Odin's messenger and observer (of Khonshu, no doubt) Sif stays for the action and adventure...and because she has a low key crush on Adam. Not many men like him in Asgard!

    *Death Seed Apocalypse (Martian Manhunter) -- I'm taking the established concept of Apocalypse as a succession of individuals who were Celestial "caretakers" and running with it. En Sabah Nur may be evil incarnate, but this version of Apocalypse is not. Similar powers, though. Don't bother bringing him Oreo cookies, his weakness is jellybeans.

  6. #651
    Astonishing Member MoneySpider's Avatar
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    To be honest, I think Blue Marvel needs to be on the flagship "Avengers" book and none of these spin-off "Avengers" titles/teams or team books of other teams because those spin-off books will get cancelled.

    I don't see the flagship "Avengers" book getting cancelled at all, even if it has poor sales. They would just get a new writer/artist and keep it moving. The ONLY thing I could see that would be a problem would be a new writer coming to write the flagship "Avengers" book and realizing that they want to replace Blue Marvel with another character.

    Too bad Blue Marvel is not on Jason Aaron's "Avengers" run right now. the writer seems to be doing good things for Black Panther right now, so maybe he would also do some great things with Blue Marvel (if he's even a Blue Marvel fan to begin with, but I guess maybe if he was a Blue Marvel fan, Blue Marvel would be on the team...unless he was denied use of Blue Marvel, for some reason).

    Ok, now I'm just rambling.
    Black Panther - Champion of Bast
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  7. #652
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    To be honest, I think Blue Marvel needs to be on the flagship "Avengers" book and none of these spin-off "Avengers" titles/teams or team books of other teams because those spin-off books will get cancelled.

    I don't see the flagship "Avengers" book getting cancelled at all, even if it has poor sales. They would just get a new writer/artist and keep it moving. The ONLY thing I could see that would be a problem would be a new writer coming to write the flagship "Avengers" book and realizing that they want to replace Blue Marvel with another character.

    Too bad Blue Marvel is not on Jason Aaron's "Avengers" run right now. the writer seems to be doing good things for Black Panther right now, so maybe he would also do some great things with Blue Marvel (if he's even a Blue Marvel fan to begin with, but I guess maybe if he was a Blue Marvel fan, Blue Marvel would be on the team...unless he was denied use of Blue Marvel, for some reason).

    Ok, now I'm just rambling.
    I think it would be great if he could make it on the flagship team. Him and Monica would be great additions.

    I think the tough thing is that it's getting harder and harder to get a spot on those. Cap, Thor and Iron Man are usually the backbone of any core Avengers team. And I suspect Tchalla and Carol are just a notch below then due to their movie success. That really only leaves 2-3 more spots for a regular sized roster.

    I sort of miss Hickmsns Justice League Unlimited formula where he had a massive team on call, which could be broken up into smaller groyps as needed. That allowed a lot more Avengers to get some panel time.

  8. #653
    Astonishing Member mugiwara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think the tough thing is that it's getting harder and harder to get a spot on those. Cap, Thor and Iron Man are usually the backbone of any core Avengers team. And I suspect Tchalla and Carol are just a notch below then due to their movie success. That really only leaves 2-3 more spots for a regular sized roster.
    Yeah, I'm afraid the Avengers are becoming like the X-Men main team (not the case now with Hicks-men, but true most of the time): every writer wants a team with Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, and some other "classic" X-Men plus one of their C-lits favorites. Then next writer comes and they keep the "core team", but get rid of the preview writer's C-list faves to add their own faves instead. That's why there is always a team of X-Men including the same old characters, but the ones like Cannonball, Armor or Chamber keep getting in and out of limbo.
    If a writer ever includes Blue Marvel in the main Avengers team, you can be sure that the next writer will get rid of him to add Songbird or 3-D Man.
    Bringing back the old, killing the young: that's the Marvel way

  9. #654
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneySpider View Post
    To be honest, I think Blue Marvel needs to be on the flagship "Avengers" book and none of these spin-off "Avengers" titles/teams or team books of other teams because those spin-off books will get cancelled.

    I don't see the flagship "Avengers" book getting cancelled at all, even if it has poor sales. They would just get a new writer/artist and keep it moving. The ONLY thing I could see that would be a problem would be a new writer coming to write the flagship "Avengers" book and realizing that they want to replace Blue Marvel with another character.

    Too bad Blue Marvel is not on Jason Aaron's "Avengers" run right now. the writer seems to be doing good things for Black Panther right now, so maybe he would also do some great things with Blue Marvel (if he's even a Blue Marvel fan to begin with, but I guess maybe if he was a Blue Marvel fan, Blue Marvel would be on the team...unless he was denied use of Blue Marvel, for some reason).

    Ok, now I'm just rambling.
    Rambling is the best form of therapy. Let your consciousness flow.

    Adam declined Tony's offer to join the main team, but I always thought that Stark should have made more of an effort to win Adam over and not take no for an answer. I know he's busy and shouldn't have to beg anyone to be an Avenger, but Adam has lived with this anger and disappointment for over 60 years of his life. With most individuals it takes time to gain their trust, especially when they see you as someone that enjoys a rather cozy relationship with the institution that wronged them. I don't think Adam was ready to join the main Avengers back in ALOTBM, but I think he is now.

    As for the roster, I think it's important that Blue Marvel joins at a time when most of the core members and founders are on the team, too. That way readers can eventually appreciate Adam as a part of the fabric of the team, and not someone bought in to sub or replace anyone.

  10. #655
    Fantastic Member Common Writer's Avatar
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    Adam Brashear needs a new day job. That old college professor stuff is played out.

    He's a supergenius. So give him his own company.

    Give him Brashear Industries.

  11. #656
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    Adam Brashear needs a new day job. That old college professor stuff is played out.

    He's a supergenius. So give him his own company.

    Give him Brashear Industries.
    I'm gonna interpret that as a joke.

  12. #657
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    Adam Brashear needs a new day job. That old college professor stuff is played out.

    He's a supergenius. So give him his own company.

    Give him Brashear Industries.
    Right idea, wrong Brashear. I think Adam's son, Max, should be the billionaire business tycoon of the family. He's also a supergenius.

  13. #658
    BCB 4sake Baned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Right idea, wrong Brashear. I think Adam's son, Max, should be the billionaire business tycoon of the family. He's also a supergenius.
    Agree great idea for Max

  14. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by Common Writer View Post
    Lemme get this straight...

    You're okay with Blue Marvel replacing Luke Cage on Mighty Avengers, but not okay with him replacing Hyperion on Squadron Supreme?

    What about the vitriol from the Luke Cage fans? You don't think it would be wrong to piss on them in order to shoehorn BM as Luke Cage's replacement?

    Even though he's called the Blue Marvel, he's more of a DC Character than a Marvel character.

    Like I've said before, he's 'the Scientist Superman, Who happens to be Black'. In essence, he's 'The Black Man of Tomorrow'.

    What better place for him to be than on Marvel's JLA: the Squadron Supreme?

    Besides, the Avengers brand has always been influenced by the Illuminati and SHIELD. The same SHIELD that was complicit in the Blue Marvel cover-up for decades.

    And Blue Marvel is anti-Illuminati.

    Do you know what hasn't been influenced by the Illuminati nor SHIELD?

    You guessed it: Squadron Supreme.

    So yes, I would like to see The Black Man of Tomorrow lead his own Justice League.
    Luke Cage got a solo series and another Powerman n Ironfist series immediately after Mighty Avengers so his fans still got plenty of Luke Cage so they had nothing to complain about.....so your issue falls flat.

  15. #660
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besouro View Post
    Luke Cage got a solo series and another Powerman n Ironfist series immediately after Mighty Avengers so his fans still got plenty of Luke Cage so they had nothing to complain about.....so your issue falls flat.
    I sometimes wonder how upset would Luke Cage fans be if Grevioux had given Adam the superhero name Power Man. I realize Luke took the name from Josten, and I guess Alvarez uses the name as well now, but the moniker fits Adam perfectly. Ewing could have worked in a side story where Luke confesses that the reason why he took the name was because of a legendary Black hero who had the same name. A hero that his father always talked about when he was younger. Luke wanted to honor both his father and that legendary hero by taking the name and continuing the tradition. Whether it's 1960 AD or 3460 AD, there'd always be someone representing the community named Power Man. Adam would just be Power Man Prime.

    Sigh. If only we could reboot everything and make things right from jump.

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