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  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I've said before that Adam is more of an Icon analogue than a Superman one. Both of them are different takes on the question of "What if Superman was black" but neither is really a major player in their respective universes (the real protagonist of Icon's series wasn't even Icon himself, it was Rocket).

    But really, this treatment here is pretty consistent with Marvel's Superman analogues. Sentry is the only one that's ever played a major role in an event and his role was as a villain.
    Sentry usually plays a role because he's a Silver Age Superman analogue. The Superman who could casually move planets, lol.

  2. #527
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Sentry usually plays a role because he's a Silver Age Superman analogue. The Superman who could casually move planets, lol.
    He's really more Miracle Man than Superman when you get right down to it.

  3. #528
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    He's really more Miracle Man than Superman when you get right down to it.
    But isn't Miracle Man a Shazam/Captain Marvel analogue...and Shazam, in the eyes of the courts anyway, was a rip-off of Superman? I think all of these characters all ultimately end up back at Supes, sadly. Not entirely accurate, but you know what they say about perception.

  4. #529
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    But isn't Miracle Man a Shazam/Captain Marvel analogue...and Shazam, in the eyes of the courts anyway, was a rip-off of Superman? I think all of these characters all ultimately end up back at Supes, sadly. Not entirely accurate, but you know what they say about perception.
    Miracleman was 100% a Shazam ripoff when he was first created as “Marvelman”. But under Moore he became much closer to Superman given his age up to adulthood as well as other factors.

  5. #530
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Miracleman was 100% a Shazam ripoff when he was first created as “Marvelman”. But under Moore he became much closer to Superman given his age up to adulthood as well as other factors.
    All I can say is compare the first few pages of the Sentry mini to some of the pages in the first issue of Moore's Miracle Man. Both involve the hero waking up from a dream about their forgotten past. :P

    Anyway, that's not really a discussion for this thread!
    Last edited by Tendrin; 10-26-2020 at 04:45 AM.

  6. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    He's really more Miracle Man than Superman when you get right down to it.
    Character wise, sure.

    But power wise, he's always been meant to invoke silver age Superman. Who, again, could move planets without breaking a sweat. He's a step above the top weight class for superheroes, putting him above Thor, Adam et all (at least in theory. Yes, Thor killed him and even She-Hulk clobbered him).

    Its why he's the elephant in the room and frankly, why he should have stayed dead

  7. #532
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Character wise, sure.

    But power wise, he's always been meant to invoke silver age Superman. Who, again, could move planets without breaking a sweat. He's a step above the top weight class for superheroes, putting him above Thor, Adam et all (at least in theory. Yes, Thor killed him and even She-Hulk clobbered him).

    Its why he's the elephant in the room and frankly, why he should have stayed dead
    Yeah, no thanks, and you're wrong in more ways than I care to get into here.

  8. #533
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Character wise, sure.

    But power wise, he's always been meant to invoke silver age Superman. Who, again, could move planets without breaking a sweat. He's a step above the top weight class for superheroes, putting him above Thor, Adam et all (at least in theory. Yes, Thor killed him and even She-Hulk clobbered him).

    Its why he's the elephant in the room and frankly, why he should have stayed dead
    Given all that Thor, Hickman's Hyperion, and Immortal Hulk have done more or less recently, I don't think we can say that Sentry should be banished to limbo or permanently killed because he is too OP. Thor and Immortal Hulk arguably have greater feats and can't/won't ever be permanently killed by virtue of franchise character protections. That Sentry can be killed, or stalemated, or battled to the point of temporarily exhausting his powers by someone who occupies his same class/tier, pretty much tells us all we need to know. If Sentry is too OP, then so too are his peers. Marvel writers don't seem to be worried about the elephant in the room. They'd only come across as hypocrites if they were.

    And don't even get me started on how all of this relates to Blue Marvel. Apparently, he's the only OP character who gets held in check. It's 2020, but they're still telling the one Black OP hero that he can't swim in the same pool as his white counterparts. Now that's a pretty big (bleep)ing elephant, if you ask me.

  9. #534
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    Sentry's power levels would certainly be difficult to manage but I think the way writers handle his mental health is a bigger issue.

  10. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Given all that Thor, Hickman's Hyperion, and Immortal Hulk have done more or less recently, I don't think we can say that Sentry should be banished to limbo or permanently killed because he is too OP. Thor and Immortal Hulk arguably have greater feats and can't/won't ever be permanently killed by virtue of franchise character protections. That Sentry can be killed, or stalemated, or battled to the point of temporarily exhausting his powers by someone who occupies his same class/tier, pretty much tells us all we need to know. If Sentry is too OP, then so too are his peers. Marvel writers don't seem to be worried about the elephant in the room. They'd only come across as hypocrites if they were.

    And don't even get me started on how all of this relates to Blue Marvel. Apparently, he's the only OP character who gets held in check. It's 2020, but they're still telling the one Black OP hero that he can't swim in the same pool as his white counterparts. Now that's a pretty big (bleep)ing elephant, if you ask me.
    Honestly, I sometimes feel like this is a blessing in disguise for Adam in some way given what tends to happen to OP characters in these days. When they aren't getting jobbed, they're being turned into villains. See Scarlet Witch and Sentry.

    I fear we may get about five years of Adam as a powerhouse before someone thinks to give him his own Dark Phoenix/No More Mutants moment and I don't think we can handle that.

  11. #536
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Honestly, I sometimes feel like this is a blessing in disguise for Adam in some way given what tends to happen to OP characters in these days. When they aren't getting jobbed, they're being turned into villains. See Scarlet Witch and Sentry.

    I fear we may get about five years of Adam as a powerhouse before someone thinks to give him his own Dark Phoenix/No More Mutants moment and I don't think we can handle that.
    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Given all that Thor, Hickman's Hyperion, and Immortal Hulk have done more or less recently, I don't think we can say that Sentry should be banished to limbo or permanently killed because he is too OP. Thor and Immortal Hulk arguably have greater feats and can't/won't ever be permanently killed by virtue of franchise character protections. That Sentry can be killed, or stalemated, or battled to the point of temporarily exhausting his powers by someone who occupies his same class/tier, pretty much tells us all we need to know. If Sentry is too OP, then so too are his peers. Marvel writers don't seem to be worried about the elephant in the room. They'd only come across as hypocrites if they were.

    And don't even get me started on how all of this relates to Blue Marvel. Apparently, he's the only OP character who gets held in check. It's 2020, but they're still telling the one Black OP hero that he can't swim in the same pool as his white counterparts. Now that's a pretty big (bleep)ing elephant, if you ask me.
    Hulk and Thor only get to do cool things in their own books though. Outside of that they mostly get jobbed nowadays.

  12. #537
    Extraordinary Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Honestly, I sometimes feel like this is a blessing in disguise for Adam in some way given what tends to happen to OP characters in these days. When they aren't getting jobbed, they're being turned into villains. See Scarlet Witch and Sentry.

    I fear we may get about five years of Adam as a powerhouse before someone thinks to give him his own Dark Phoenix/No More Mutants moment and I don't think we can handle that.
    Adam as a villain could happen sooner than we think. If it's true that Adam and Dr. Doom will share some great cosmic secret, that could easily be misconstrued by the rest of the heroes as Adam allying himself with Doom in some way. And with Adam being a largely unknown quantity, austere as a consequence of his history, and yet powerful in his own right, I could easily see signals getting crossed and the rest of the Marvel Universe gunning for Adam. Misunderstandings tend to escalate all of the time.

    Frankly, I wouldn't mind it at all if Adam had a little bit more edge, confidence and understated swag. Like Magneto. Or Thanos.

  13. #538
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    If Adam appeared in animation, who would you like to voice him?

  14. #539
    Ultimate Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Sentry's power levels would certainly be difficult to manage but I think the way writers handle his mental health is a bigger issue.
    This. As someone who suffers from debilitating mental illness, I can safely say that the treatment of his mental health by Bendis was offensively poor.

  15. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tendrin View Post
    This. As someone who suffers from debilitating mental illness, I can safely say that the treatment of his mental health by Bendis was offensively poor.
    Doubly agreed. I'll be on medication for the rest of my life, and the constant insinuation (writers of Wanda have also been historically guilty of this) that mentally ill immediately equals dangerous is, quite frankly, insulting.

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